RugbyRebels

Is a far better scrum half than Ben Youngs....discuss.

Week in week out yes, but today it’s a relative thing. He was just marginally less shite.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Is a far better scrum half than Ben Youngs....discuss.

The biggest beef people had with Robson was not getting a fair crack of the whip.

He's been ok in some games and poor in others. He's not had a good run of minutes.

He was shunt today.

There's also no denying that Youngs has come through a period of a good 3-4 years where he was not deserving of the England 9 shirt. He was not good at all. Now he's back to being good. Just his passing is not good enough, for me and for many others.

It's so hard to find someone good there, though. I'm happy to settle for Youngs for now.

He's not had a fair crack - that much feels like a reasonable statement

But today he was absolutely terrible, with his first 'clearance' very much setting the tone

But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

Oakboy wrote:But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

He looked so nervous today. He had a kick charged down when he was standing in a group of players, of course that happened - but the choice was baffling. Didn't he kick one long too?

His first kick. His feet were set up wrong, I'm sure of it. I looked and thought he was passing then he tried to kick...

7 caps, probably less than 80 minutes on the field.

Oakboy wrote:But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

Ben Youngs has often been an uninspiring choice but he's a been a reliable choice. You often see him having bang average games but he doesn't go out there and shit the bed like Robson did. Jones has always been a fan of his tactical kicking as well.

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

Ben Youngs has often been an uninspiring choice but he's a been a reliable choice. You often see him having bang average games but he doesn't go out there and shit the bed like Robson did. Jones has always been a fan of his tactical kicking as well.

Youngs has really redirected his test career in positive fashion, albeit not to being one of the leading 9s around in thinking remotely in terms of being enjoyable to watch. But the idea he hasn't at times shat the bed is risible

Insouciant wrote:

Oakboy wrote:But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

He looked so nervous today. He had a kick charged down when he was standing in a group of players, of course that happened - but the choice was baffling. Didn't he kick one long too?

His first kick. His feet were set up wrong, I'm sure of it. I looked and thought he was passing then he tried to kick...

7 caps, probably less than 80 minutes on the field.

He'd set himself to kick and then Cowan Dickie took the ball back, then handed it out again. New players nervous and knowing they needed to "do something"

Robson should have been capped years before he got the chance.
Felt for him a bit yesterday, but his basics looked ropey and he did himself no favours. He wasnt alone. None of the starters, nor those coming off the bench made any kind of impact.

Digby wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:But, it doesn't matter how good he is now. We should have found out whether he was up to it OR NOT years ago. Nobody would have minded him being tried and rejected at the right time. Maybe now it is Randall's time or whoever's. The point is that Youngs has 100+ caps - about twice as many as he has deserved. Blaming/rejecting Robson at this point proves nothing. It's about what should have been not what IS.

Ben Youngs has often been an uninspiring choice but he's a been a reliable choice. You often see him having bang average games but he doesn't go out there and shit the bed like Robson did. Jones has always been a fan of his tactical kicking as well.

Youngs has really redirected his test career in positive fashion, albeit not to being one of the leading 9s around in thinking remotely in terms of being enjoyable to watch. But the idea he hasn't at times shat the bed is risible

Oh Youngs has been poor but I can't remember a time I was waiting for the next mistake like I was with Robson yesterday. I don't know whether he was out of his depth or his head had gone or what but he couldn't stop the errors and bad errors at that.

There's no defence for it, no he should have been tried before. This was his big chance to stake a claim he came on, on 55 mins with is chasing the game. Should have been prime Robson territory but he was slow and error strewn. Eddie's tactics were woeful but to come on and offer less than Youngs in attack isn't acceptable.

You must have missed a lot of England games if you weren't just waiting for the next cockup with Youngs. And somehow you missed the final.

EDIT - I should point out though, recently he's been a lot better than his usual erratic self.

FKAS wrote:Oh Youngs has been poor but I can't remember a time I was waiting for the next mistake like I was with Robson yesterday. I don't know whether he was out of his depth or his head had gone or what but he couldn't stop the errors and bad errors at that.

There's no defence for it, no he should have been tried before. This was his big chance to stake a claim he came on, on 55 mins with is chasing the game. Should have been prime Robson territory but he was slow and error strewn. Eddie's tactics were woeful but to come on and offer less than Youngs in attack isn't acceptable.

While Youngs is drastically underrated on here, there have absolutely been games where you're waiting for the next mistake. Ireland one a couple of years back springs immediately to mind, also the RWC final was a striking low point.

Still, I feel vindicated in my opinion that Robson is so highly rated because of the Not!Youngs effect and that people are eager to look at the good bits and ignore the bad bits. Same with Spencer.

Puja

Raggs wrote:You must have missed a lot of England games if you weren't just waiting for the next cockup with Youngs. And somehow you missed the final.

EDIT - I should point out though, recently he's been a lot better than his usual erratic self.

During the final I was just waiting for the next England mistake. South Africa battered us and as a team we just couldn't get anything going. Youngs wasn't alone in being completely outplayed by his opposite number.

Similar in some ways to the Scotland game. We can't dominate up front and then implode.