RugbyRebels

A small squad doesn't allow for much experimentation, and whilst it's Italy, yesterday means that we need to get both a result and a performance, so for once, I don't think it's time to change things around just to see. I think had yesterday's Italy played yesterday's England, we could very well have lost.

Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje (c), Hill
Willis, Curry, Wilson (8)

Youngs, Ford
Lawrence, Slade
May, Watson, Daly (15)

Obano, LCD, Williams, Lawes, Earl
Robson, Farrel, Malins

Billy and Owen are in ruts with their form, and didn't deserve to be there in the first place - everyone else has actually earned their place in the team, and deserve the chance to turn it around. This wouldn't be the team I'd pick if I were starting from scratch, but from where we are.

Were I starting from scratch, George would have been on the bench - due to rust.
Hill would have been on the bench - because I'm just not a fan, even though I acknowledge that he's earned the right to be tested.
I'd have started with the 6-13 named above - there are no valid alternatives to Youngs as starter, because no-one's been given the chance to be tested and kept / discarded. I'm Ford > Farrell anyway, but as a preference, not an absolute; after November, and yesterday, it's become an absolute.
I'd have started with Malins at FB - Daly's just never looked right back there, whilst Malins has shown what we want to see from Daly, but in practice, not theory.

Billy and Owen desperately need to learn that they're not undroppable; Daly is headed in that direction as well, though I wouldn't be pulling the plug just yet (or course, picking from scratch, he'd be my 3rd choice winger covering 15 and 13 from the bench).
As for captaincy, Itoje has seemed like the captain in waiting since almost his first cap; whilst Farrell has never had the right temprament for the job - not to mention that FHs and kickers generally make terrible captains.

The most important change though, is that the players need to be authorised to actually go off-script when necessary.

Pretty much agree but I would bench George and Daly and put Randall on the bench. Unlucky for Robson but it is all too late for him anyway. I reckon Eddie will put Lawes in for Hill and I'm 50-50 with that too.

I'd take that team but put lawes in for hill.

I'd be perfectly happy with all those alternative suggestions - I'm just wary of changing things up too much when most of the team need to show that yesterday was a one-off.
Had yesterday's performance not been so dire, I'd be calling for many more changes (starting Malins & LCD; Lawes Randall and Odogwu on the bench...)

Malins has looked great in his limited international action so far, he's wasn't the chance to start at fullback and it will give England that second playmaker option that allows for the more direct option in the centres. There's also no point in having Odogwu in the squad if you're not going to cap him in this game.

George was anonymous yesterday, LCD to start. Genge has to be on the shoogly peg too.

No need to panic. In any case a small squad doesnt give you much chance to experiment. Willis into the back row for Vunipola and Ford for Farrell are sensible options.
The former I can see happening. The latter is unlikely, much as it is required. Cannot see Jones dropping his captain.

Feck it, it’s only Italy.

Genge
George
Stuart
Itoje
Lawes
Willis
Curry
Wilson

Youngs
Ford
May
Lawrence
Odogwu
Watson
Malins

Obano
LCD
Covid-denying twat
Itoje
Lawes
Willis
Curry
Billy
Randall
Ford
May
Lawrence
Slade
Watson
Malins

George, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Wilson, Youngs, Farrell, Odogwu

Stom wrote:Obano
LCD
Covid-denying twat
Itoje
Lawes
Willis
Curry
Billy
Randall
Ford
May
Lawrence
Slade
Watson
Malins

George, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Wilson, Youngs, Farrell, Odogwu

Why would you drop Stuart? He was one of the few forwards to come out of the game with any credit IMO. I especially enjoyed him shoving Rory "Scrum destroyer" Sutherland backwards in the second half when a completed scrum finally happened.

Puja

Absolutely Stuart. For me the only tight 5 barre Itoje (I know I know, discipline. But at least he looked remotely engaged) who comes out with any credit. Genge was immensely disappointing, but feel like the ref completely emasculated him in the first 20 and he never got over that. I'd imagine he's the type who will thrive after a kick up the arse.

I mean it's all very nice and all but it really is Groundhog Day with Eddie. We'll see fat Billy again and Lawes starting at 6. He'll see Italy as a chance to make his beloved powergame restore order and prove this Sat was an aberration that will never be repeated.

Beasties wrote:I mean it's all very nice and all but it really is Groundhog Day with Eddie. We'll see fat Billy again and Lawes starting at 6. He'll see Italy as a chance to make his beloved powergame restore order and prove this Sat was an aberration that will never be repeated.

This is what worries me. I think I'd rather have france next, get a kicking and hopefully that would make things change.

Beasties wrote:I mean it's all very nice and all but it really is Groundhog Day with Eddie. We'll see fat Billy again and Lawes starting at 6. He'll see Italy as a chance to make his beloved powergame restore order and prove this Sat was an aberration that will never be repeated.

A purveyor of doom and gloom - and probably spot on!

Has Eddie got the balls to make the decision to take the English team forward instead of persisting with his outdated powergame plan?
Let's take a look at Randall at scrum half partnering Ford, Odogwu's chance must be given in the next few matches, equally Malins.
Billy is droppable and I'd put Wilson at 8 and bring in Willis leaving Curry at 7.

JellyHead wrote:

Beasties wrote:I mean it's all very nice and all but it really is Groundhog Day with Eddie. We'll see fat Billy again and Lawes starting at 6. He'll see Italy as a chance to make his beloved powergame restore order and prove this Sat was an aberration that will never be repeated.

This is what worries me. I think I'd rather have france next, get a kicking and hopefully that would make things change.

Agreed! Two consecutive defeats would make Eddie do what's necessary.
FORZA AZZURI!!!

I'd like to see:

Genge, LCD, Stuart - give the props chance to make amends.
Itoje, Hill - because that combination does have promise.
Curry, Willis, Earl - try to stop the defensive effort being such a poopie show and be mobile in attack.
Youngs, Ford - a combination that works.
Lawrence, Odogwu - all the power and pace.
Daly, Watson, Mallins - secondary playmaker at fullback with some Lions wingers to ease him in.

George, Obano, Sinckler/Williams, Lawes, Vunipola, Randall, Slade, May.

Get Randall on after 50 minutes at which point we should have won the game and he can get half an hour under his belt without pressure to settle in.

I think Jones will play YFF at 9,10,12. He is incapable of recognising that Farrell needs dropping.

Hill is getting stick but our second row as a unit was more competitive than our front or back row. I'd certainly start Lawes at 6 and LCD at 2. If Sinckler becomes available he has to be in. If Jones has any sense, he'll be on the phone to Marler even to just play the next game.

francoisfou wrote:

JellyHead wrote:

Beasties wrote:I mean it's all very nice and all but it really is Groundhog Day with Eddie. We'll see fat Billy again and Lawes starting at 6. He'll see Italy as a chance to make his beloved powergame restore order and prove this Sat was an aberration that will never be repeated.

This is what worries me. I think I'd rather have france next, get a kicking and hopefully that would make things change.

Agreed! Two consecutive defeats would make Eddie do what's necessary.
FORZA AZZURI!!!

Oh, it would be fucking hilarious if we got the wooden spoon.

Did Itoje look like he’s put on a stone or two to anyone else? He looked enormous.

FKAS wrote:I'd like to see:

Genge, LCD, Stuart - give the props chance to make amends.
Itoje, Hill - because that combination does have promise.
Curry, Willis, Earl - try to stop the defensive effort being such a poopie show and be mobile in attack.
Youngs, Ford - a combination that works.
Lawrence, Odogwu - all the power and pace.
Daly, Watson, Mallins - secondary playmaker at fullback with some Lions wingers to ease him in.

George, Obano, Sinckler/Williams, Lawes, Vunipola, Randall, Slade, May

Get Randall on after 50 minutes at which point we should have won the game and he can get half an hour under his belt without pressure to settle in.

Swap May and Daly around and i agree.

For back row I’d go for:

6 Wilson
7 Willis
8 Earl

None of the forwards are that good that their undroppable and Billy and Curry were just not up to it in on Saturday and Willis and Earl deserve now the chance to start imo

Mikey Brown wrote:Did Itoje look like he’s put on a stone or two to anyone else? He looked enormous.

Yes, I too pointed this out

Is Underhill out for the campaign?

tricky one, nobody played well enough to put a claim in for their shirt, and a number of our players actively worked against us. so there's the case for dropping players for standard of play and/or indiscipline, but the players will expect some leeway given a good win ratio over several years. the easy way out would be to drop the likes of Stuart, Wilson and Lawrence.

I would make a case for Billy and George to be dropped on fitness grounds, jiggling around like that is taking the piss at this level. that might well not happen, and indeed there is the concern yesterday raises the threat of Lawes back to 6 more than anything else

Did we actually attempt one jackal on Sat? I'm starting to seriously worry that when Eddie does give Willis a go he'll be under instruction to under no circumstances attempt a jackal because our pen count is so horrifically high. In which case why bother to play him at all?

Drop the worst of the bunch.
Genre (and I'm a fan of him) Obano in.
Billy (way off the mark in terms of fitness. Wilson to 8, Willis or Earl in.
Youngs. (Go straight to Randell. I'm a biased Bristol fan)
Farrell out. (Ford in.)
Daly out. (If we need a FB that can't/won't pass the ball we may as well have Mike Brown back. Malins to start)