RugbyRebels

15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
14. Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
13. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps)
12. Dan Kelly (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
11. Max Malins (Bristol Bears (loan) / Saracens, 7 caps)
10. Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
9. Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)
2. Curtis Langdon (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
3. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
4. Harry Wells (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
6. Lewis Ludlow (C) (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
7. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
8. Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)

FINISHERS
16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
17. Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)
18. Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
19. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
20. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 12 caps)
22. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
23. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)

Be interesting to see who would go to 10 if Umaga should get crocked- Malins or Furbank. Not sure I'd play Malins on the wing, but good to see Steward get a start.

Ludlow must have impressed in training, and clearly Kelly can play 12 .

No less than 5 dual-qualified players committing to England (Kelly, Umaga, Randall, Langdon, Heyes). Good use of an A international.

Decent looking side. Interesting to see how highly Radwan's thought of. A little surprised that Genge isn't the captain - I'd've thought he fit Eddie's ideal of being abrasive and not a classic public school boy. Very pleased to see Wells getting a go - I don't think he'll ever be an international, but there were stages where I didn't think he'd ever be a Premiership starter and he has worked so hard and improved out of sight. Thoroughly deserved recognition.

No Bassett involved. Sign that he's being saved for the tests or that he's not gonna be used and was just a positive influence in camp?

Puja

Apparently this game is not important enough for Eddie's attention:



Puja

Puja wrote:No less than 5 dual-qualified players committing to England (Kelly, Umaga, Randall, Langdon, Heyes). Good use of an A international.

Decent looking side. Interesting to see how highly Radwan's thought of. A little surprised that Genge isn't the captain - I'd've thought he fit Eddie's ideal of being abrasive and not a classic public school boy. Very pleased to see Wells getting a go - I don't think he'll ever be an international, but there were stages where I didn't think he'd ever be a Premiership starter and he has worked so hard and improved out of sight. Thoroughly deserved recognition.

No Bassett involved. Sign that he's being saved for the tests or that he's not gonna be used and was just a positive influence in camp?

Puja

Bassett was an odd call, he's frankly a journeyman player past his best. Honest club player.

Ewels and Genge I suspected as being in the running for the captain's armband but makes sense to give it to Ludlow given he's the Gloucester captain.

Exciting team with Malins in the hybrid role, very mobile backrow and bench options. Should be good both up front and around the park. Umaga has the keys to an impressive backline, I bet Ford wishes he was allowed to have two centres that will actually run lines for him.

Hoping for some entertainment.

Is Chick at 8 a bit of a surprise? Not been on the radar as far as I can tell and England have so much young talent in the backrow. Is Mercer injured for example?

Well, the challenge level's just gone down significantly: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57608356

Puja

FKAS wrote:Ewels and Genge I suspected as being in the running for the captain's armband but makes sense to give it to Ludlow given he's the Gloucester captain.

Doesn't that sense apply to Ewels as well; who's both Bath captain, and with 20-odd caps tucked in his belt (if almost entirely from the bench)

switchskier wrote:Is Chick at 8 a bit of a surprise? Not been on the radar as far as I can tell and England have so much young talent in the backrow. Is Mercer injured for example?

He's moved to France

switchskier wrote:Is Chick at 8 a bit of a surprise? Not been on the radar as far as I can tell and England have so much young talent in the backrow. Is Mercer injured for example?

He's a good player and there's not too many options to play 8. I think he's got potential - just a question of whether he'll kick on. Mercer's not available as he's moving to France.

Puja

Which Tyler wrote:

FKAS wrote:Ewels and Genge I suspected as being in the running for the captain's armband but makes sense to give it to Ludlow given he's the Gloucester captain.

Doesn't that sense apply to Ewels as well; who's both Bath captain, and with 20-odd caps tucked in his belt (if almost entirely from the bench)

It would, which is why I thought it would be between him and Genge. Eddie had dropped some hints about leadership group and Genge and then Genge captained Tigers the game after the comments (though T Youngs was suspended, Benny on the bench and Ford injured).

There's something with Ewels, I don't know why but I think Eddie knows he offers something but he isn't sure what. He comes in and out the team, off the bench. Dunno could be wrong.

Perfect game to get some of the younger players involved. Nice balance with some solid Prem experience along with a number of capped played, mostly on the bench. Its a good mix.
I thought Ewels would be skipper but i'm not unhappy that Ludlow has been handed the responsibility.

Puja wrote:

switchskier wrote:Is Chick at 8 a bit of a surprise? Not been on the radar as far as I can tell and England have so much young talent in the backrow. Is Mercer injured for example?

He's a good player and there's not too many options to play 8. I think he's got potential - just a question of whether he'll kick on. Mercer's not available as he's moving to France.

Puja

It was pretty much a straight shoot out between Chick and Tom Willis. Looks like Chick won.

TBH, I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him do well and keep Dombrandt out of the side for the tests.

The main surprise for me is no Bevan Rodd.

Scrumhead wrote:

Puja wrote:

switchskier wrote:Is Chick at 8 a bit of a surprise? Not been on the radar as far as I can tell and England have so much young talent in the backrow. Is Mercer injured for example?

He's a good player and there's not too many options to play 8. I think he's got potential - just a question of whether he'll kick on. Mercer's not available as he's moving to France.

Puja

It was pretty much a straight shoot out between Chick and Tom Willis. Looks like Chick won.

TBH, I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him do well and keep Dombrandt out of the side for the tests.

The main surprise for me is no Bevan Rodd.

Good point on Rodd, although he's had less than a week in camp to make a mark. You wonder if he'll get a chance in the tests (and thus get committed to England) though - he's not better than Genge or Obano if we're picking our best available XV.

Puja

Yeah, I don’t think Rodd is better than Genge or Obano. I was actually expecting (and would have preferred), Obano to start with Rodd coming off the bench for this game and then Genge/Obano for the actual tests.

Thought Rodd would likely feature this weekend. He's been used sparingly over the last few weeks at Sale so maybe isnt 100% fit.

The BBC article says it us a non cap game. Does that mean it isn't a nominating nationality game or are the two thing independent?

JellyHead wrote:The BBC article says it us a non cap game. Does that mean it isn't a nominating nationality game or are the two thing independent?

Each side has a second nominating team who can capture players when they play either a national side or a national side's second nominating team. For England, this is England A. I believe for Scotland, it's Scotland A. Therefore, this game should capture the players involved.

However, a few years ago, England A played South Africa A and it was discovered later that that match didn't count because South Africa had "Emerging Springboks" (a team who hadn't played since 2005) named as their South Africa A team, rather than South Africa A who had played semi-regularly and were called South Africa A but weren't the South Africa A team. Hence Mike Haley being able to discover his Irishness at a later date.

Short answer: Yes, it really should capture players. I believe it will.
Long answer: Who tf actually even knows because the IRB are madder than a sack of hammers and I'm sure there's some bizarre reason why an A side playing an A side won't count as a game between two A sides.

Puja

Cheers puja. It's probably been done to death over the years. Not a big fan of capturing players with non cap matches. In such a short career, limiting a players earning potential seems wrong. I don't know in reality how many of these players would find a non english granny locked in their basement should another nation come knocking. I know money shouldn't be a factor in internationals, but it does, it is a profession as much as a game.

Scotland side -

15. Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby)
14. Rufus McLean (Glasgow Warriors)
13. Matt Scott (Leicester Tigers) CAPTAIN
12. Stafford McDowall (Glasgow Warriors)
11. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby)
10. Ross Thompson (Glasgow Warriors)
9. Charlie Shiel (Edinburgh Rugby)
1. Nick Auterac (Northampton Saints)
2. Ewan Ashman (Sale Sharks)
3. Oli Kebble (Glasgow Warrriors)
4. Cameron Henderson (Leicester Tigers)
5. Kiran McDonald (Glasgow Warriors)
6. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby)
7. Rory Darge (Glasgow Warriors)
8. Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh Rugby)

Substitutes:

16. Adam McBurney (Ulster Rugby)
17. Robin Hislop (Doncaster Knights)
18. Javan Sebastian (Scarlets)
19. Jamie Hodgson (Edinburgh Rugby)
20. Callum Hunter-Hill (Saracens)
21. Ben Vellacott (Wasps)
22. Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors)
23. George Taylor (Edinburgh Rugby)

I make that 5 capped players starting plus Hastings on the bench.

I’m pretty sure Oli Kebble is usually a loosehead so Genge should have him on toast.

JellyHead wrote:Cheers puja. It's probably been done to death over the years. Not a big fan of capturing players with non cap matches. In such a short career, limiting a players earning potential seems wrong. I don't know in reality how many of these players would find a non english granny locked in their basement should another nation come knocking. I know money shouldn't be a factor in internationals, but it does, it is a profession as much as a game.

Possibly, but I’d argue that Randall, Heyes and Kelly are all possible solutions in positions where we’re really lacking depth. I think we’re ‘capturing’ them because we genuinely think they can be test players, not just to stop them from being capped by Wales or Ireland.

Ludlow and Langdon maybe less so, but I wouldn’t put it past either staking a good claim to be capped over the next few weeks.

I have 0 guilt over any of these 5. I don’t really see anything debatable or controversial when they’re either 100% English (Randall only qualifies for Wales on residency as a kid) or born, bred and developed in the English system as the other four have been. Even if Kelly has played for Ireland at age grade, his development has been in our club game.

The flip side to not capturing players is the reduced incentive to have player pathways to the senior side. In the men's game it's reasonably setup as is, I think just about everyone does now nominate, save possibly NZ. The women's game, well there's a lot of work to be done to set up pathways, but given many nations barely have a senior side it's going to take a while before the next senior sides are established, it'll come, just in frustratingly slow practice

Scrumhead wrote:

JellyHead wrote:Cheers puja. It's probably been done to death over the years. Not a big fan of capturing players with non cap matches. In such a short career, limiting a players earning potential seems wrong. I don't know in reality how many of these players would find a non english granny locked in their basement should another nation come knocking. I know money shouldn't be a factor in internationals, but it does, it is a profession as much as a game.

Possibly, but I’d argue that Randall, Heyes and Kelly are all possible solutions in positions where we’re really lacking depth. I think we’re ‘capturing’ them because we genuinely think they can be test players, not just to stop them from being capped by Wales or Ireland.

Ludlow and Langdon maybe less so, but I wouldn’t put it past either staking a good claim to be capped over the next few weeks.

I have 0 guilt over any of these 5. I don’t really see anything debatable or controversial when they’re either 100% English (Randall only qualifies for Wales on residency as a kid) or born, bred and developed in the English system as the other four have been. Even if Kelly has played for Ireland at age grade, his development has been in our club game.

There's Umaga as well. In a way that's a little bit of a shame because I was hoping he'd opt for Samoa as they are desperate for a flyhalf with Umaga's potential and current ability. Plus the way he plays would suit them far more than England where I suspect he'll see little game time and succeeded by younger options after the next world cup where's he unlikely to push past Ford and Farrell.

The likes of Simmonds, Umaga and Smith will age from 24-26 up to 28-30 by the following WC. It's going to take the emergence of some talent to push all of them aside if Ford and Farrell are gone