RugbyRebels

So Eddie has announced that he's off elsewhere after the 2023 World Cup. Plenty of time to find his successor - but who'll be on the short list?
Would Joe Schmidt be interested or maybe mark McCall?


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ning-squad

Gods, I just hope it's not Cockerill. He is absolutely fine as a short-term appointment leading up to a RWC, taking the team by the scruff of the neck and providing a strong sensible voice alongside Eddie, but he is not the long-term head man. It would end in utter disaster.

Much as I don't want it to be from a Leicester-supporting perspective, you'd have to suspect that Borthwick's in the box-seat. If he has two more seasons of sustained success at Leicester leading to a title (not a given, but certainly not out of the question given their trajectory so far), then that's a very strong CV to add to his international experience with Japan and England.

Puja

Puja wrote:Gods, I just hope it's not Cockerill. He is absolutely fine as a short-term appointment leading up to a RWC, taking the team by the scruff of the neck and providing a strong sensible voice alongside Eddie, but he is not the long-term head man. It would end in utter disaster.

Much as I don't want it to be from a Leicester-supporting perspective, you'd have to suspect that Borthwick's in the box-seat. If he has two more seasons of sustained success at Leicester leading to a title (not a given, but certainly not out of the question given their trajectory so far), then that's a very strong CV to add to his international experience with Japan and England.

Puja

Maybe Borthwick and Jones will swap jobs!!

Justice 4 Mike Ford

Others who might be in the frame not already mentioned, McCall, Kiss, Farrell, Lancaster, O'Shea, Robertson, Cotter, Rowntree, Watson, Baxter, Lam. What stands out straight away is how many aren't English, but really it's Ford's to decline. Oh, and Deano will remain a wildcard

Puja wrote:Gods, I just hope it's not Cockerill. He is absolutely fine as a short-term appointment leading up to a RWC, taking the team by the scruff of the neck and providing a strong sensible voice alongside Eddie, but he is not the long-term head man. It would end in utter disaster.

Much as I don't want it to be from a Leicester-supporting perspective, you'd have to suspect that Borthwick's in the box-seat. If he has two more seasons of sustained success at Leicester leading to a title (not a given, but certainly not out of the question given their trajectory so far), then that's a very strong CV to add to his international experience with Japan and England.

Puja

Yep. 100% agree on all of the above.

Also, Borthwick comes with a lot less potential to embarrass the RFU than Cockerill does.

Jones is assuming he will last until the WC. Will he, if results dont dramatically improve?

Scrumhead wrote:

Puja wrote:Gods, I just hope it's not Cockerill. He is absolutely fine as a short-term appointment leading up to a RWC, taking the team by the scruff of the neck and providing a strong sensible voice alongside Eddie, but he is not the long-term head man. It would end in utter disaster.

Much as I don't want it to be from a Leicester-supporting perspective, you'd have to suspect that Borthwick's in the box-seat. If he has two more seasons of sustained success at Leicester leading to a title (not a given, but certainly not out of the question given their trajectory so far), then that's a very strong CV to add to his international experience with Japan and England.

Puja

Yep. 100% agree on all of the above.

Also, Borthwick comes with a lot less potential to embarrass the RFU than Cockerill does.

Borthwick on a purely rugby perspective would be ideal, with the caveat he can drag Leicester back up to silverware. In not sure his dislike of media interviews and giving speeches to the corporate types will go down well with the RFU. Borthwick refuses to discuss injuries and selection so the journos are unlikely to be keen to see him come in as it'll make their jobs harder.

Cockerill likes to give the chat so the journos will like him and his combustible style, easy column inches. He is more than happy to do the waffle so the corporates should be happy it's just the opinionated nature of him that might rub a few up the wrong way. I actually think Cockers will be well suited to international rugby though not as the top man, I've said it before he lacks long term vision. Get an ideas man in and then get Cockers as his number two and I think that will work. Cockers is great at setting up to win the next game that's his big strength and his big weakness.

Lot of signs seem to be pointing Borthwick's way. I think the RFU will go for an English coach after Eddie

HC: Borthwick
Forwards: Cockerill
Defence: Sanderson
Attack: McPhillips / Gleeson

FKAS wrote:
Borthwick on a purely rugby perspective would be ideal

If we're going to hold it against Baxter he's not headed up anything but Exeter, nor McCall at Sarries, then Borthwick is somewhat shy on the rugby experience of heading up sides, and hasn't actually won much yet. He's a decent prospect, he might do very well, he's not in advance ideal

Which Tyler wrote:HC: Borthwick
Forwards: Cockerill
Defence: Sanderson
Attack: McPhillips / Gleeson

I'd take that, although I wouldn't mind Burt coming back in in attack.

As Digby notes, it does very much depend on how the next two years go for Borthwick with Leicester. He leads us to two titles and a Euro final, then the job's his. If he just gets us into the play-offs twice, then he's not got a history as a winner to fall back on. All very hypothetical at the moment.

Puja

Digby wrote:If we're going to hold it against Baxter he's not headed up anything but Exeter, nor McCall at Sarries, then Borthwick is somewhat shy on the rugby experience of heading up sides, and hasn't actually won much yet. He's a decent prospect, he might do very well, he's not in advance ideal

Unlike Baxter and McCall though, Borhtwich has A] Experience of coaching more than 1 team, and B] International experience.

for me, he's in pole position at the moment (assuming an Englishman), of course, a lot can change in 2 years

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:If we're going to hold it against Baxter he's not headed up anything but Exeter, nor McCall at Sarries, then Borthwick is somewhat shy on the rugby experience of heading up sides, and hasn't actually won much yet. He's a decent prospect, he might do very well, he's not in advance ideal

Unlike Baxter and McCall though, Borhtwich has A] Experience of coaching more than 1 team, and B] International experience.

for me, he's in pole position at the moment (assuming an Englishman), of course, a lot can change in 2 years

McCall won the Pro12? with Ulster and coached in France for a year or so. Think he did some rep coaching for Ireland too.

Baxter has always said he has no interest and TBH, my interest in him is lukewarm.

This season will be a real test for him and Exeter with law changes and more test absentees.

Will he/can he change their style and add more variety if some of their main weapons are taken away (pick and go tries and Sam Simmonds)?

Timbo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:If we're going to hold it against Baxter he's not headed up anything but Exeter, nor McCall at Sarries, then Borthwick is somewhat shy on the rugby experience of heading up sides, and hasn't actually won much yet. He's a decent prospect, he might do very well, he's not in advance ideal

Unlike Baxter and McCall though, Borhtwich has A] Experience of coaching more than 1 team, and B] International experience.

for me, he's in pole position at the moment (assuming an Englishman), of course, a lot can change in 2 years

McCall won the Pro12? with Ulster and coached in France for a year or so. Think he did some rep coaching for Ireland too.

McCall has disavowed any interest previously. Not sure if that still holds.

Puja

Timbo wrote:McCall won the Pro12? with Ulster and coached in France for a year or so. Think he did some rep coaching for Ireland too.

Fair enough, Didn't know that

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:If we're going to hold it against Baxter he's not headed up anything but Exeter, nor McCall at Sarries, then Borthwick is somewhat shy on the rugby experience of heading up sides, and hasn't actually won much yet. He's a decent prospect, he might do very well, he's not in advance ideal

Unlike Baxter and McCall though, Borhtwich has A] Experience of coaching more than 1 team, and B] International experience.

for me, he's in pole position at the moment (assuming an Englishman), of course, a lot can change in 2 years

Borthwick has experience of coaching more than one side, but not being head coach and leading the strategy of a side. And he hasn't won much.


Neither of those rules him out in advance, just it doesn't make him the ideal candidate

I’ve said this before, but I’d really like the next coach to be a former back rather than a forward. Feel that a back’s perspective actually helps with the forward selection too and a move from the stodgy playing style adopted by certain units such as our backrow and centres in recent times.

Who’s that going to be then? Is that inherently going to be better than a coach who was a forward but has more success/experience?

Are King and Mallinder still up to much? I feel like they were talked up a lot a few years back but I don’t even know what they’re doing now. Did I imagine that Mallinder went to do some sort of development role with Scotland?

Aye Mallinder is performance director for Scotland, and I'm fairly sure Alex King is at Glos

I’ll add Dave Walder and Dan McFarland to the list of possibles.

Have we covered yet this is about as subtle as Eddie gets in saying he wants the Lions gig next time around

Cockerill has come out to publically say that he's not in the running to take over from Eddie, which is as blatant a statement of intent to take it as anything I've ever seen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58696872

Puja

Interesting fact, Mike Ford recently came around to Cockerill's house to install new bannisters for free because the old ones he'd thought less than safe on a previous visit. Some people say Ford is all about the bluster, but maybe it's the baluster

You could have Gatland, Schmidtt, and Farrell and bore the entire world into submission. Get some South African water carriers/medics to continually slow things down when needed and you're away laughing.