RugbyRebels

Harlequins: Green; Marchant, Northmore, Esterhuizen, Murley; Smith, Care; Marler, Walker, Collier, Symons, Tizard, Lawday, Kenningham, Dombrandt (capt).

Replacements: Musk, Garcia Botta, Kerrod, Lamb, J Chisholm, Steele, Jones, Lynagh.

Exeter: Hogg; Nowell, Slade, Whitten, Cordero; J Simmonds, Maunder; Hepburn, Yeandle (capt), Iosefa-Scott, Gray, Hill, Ewers, Kirsten, S Simmonds.

Replacements: Innard, Moon, Schickerling, S Skinner, Armand, Maunder, H Skinner, Hendrickson.

Just looking up Schickerling on the exe website. Looks like he will fit right in.

Esterhuizen is such a nice get out of jail card for Smith. Nothing on, give it to him and still make 10 yards. And the focus on him just gives so much space elsewhere.

Quins all over Chiefs early doors. Slightly fortunate first try but they were applying pressure. Chiefs need to get a foothold in this game somehow.

Chiefs turn it around all square and then Hepburn with a pretty tired looking assisted clear out drops Marler on his head, deserved red.

Red card - correctly issued - is going to make life very hard for Exeter, who had worked their way back into the game.

In addition to everything else, Marcus Smith tackling and counter rucking like a spare flanker.

Red for Simmonds as well IMO. Don’t get why he gets away with that at all. That could so easily have been a broken neck for anyone that isn’t built like Marler.

Also Marler should definitely have to go for an HIA after an incident like that. Very strange that always gets overlooked in those situations that aren’t a head-on-head.

Mikey Brown wrote:Red for Simmonds as well IMO. Don’t get why he gets away with that at all. That could so easily have been a broken neck for anyone that isn’t built like Marler.

Also Marler should definitely have to go for an HIA after an incident like that. Very strange that always gets overlooked in those situations that aren’t a head-on-head.

Why should he have to go for an HIA? He didn't have a high speed collision, the danger came from being on his head with his body weight, there was no sudden deceleration.

…to check if he got a head injury from being driven head first in to the floor? Is that a real question? Does it need to be high velocity/concussion related?

Mikey Brown wrote:…to check if he got a head injury from being driven head first in to the floor? Is that a real question? Does it need to be high velocity/concussion related?

HIA is concussion checking. If he's not telling the medics he's in paid, and they aren't worried about concussion, there's no reason to take him off.

Mikey Brown wrote:Red for Simmonds as well IMO. Don’t get why he gets away with that at all. That could so easily have been a broken neck for anyone that isn’t built like Marler.

Also Marler should definitely have to go for an HIA after an incident like that. Very strange that always gets overlooked in those situations that aren’t a head-on-head.

No. For starters without Hepburn joining in Marler never gets tipped onto his neck and secondly Simmonds attempts to put him down safely.

Quins have made really hard work of playing against 14 men, good job they didn't play in the rain last season because on a wet day they've blown three tries.

That should have been a penalty on that first scrum after the restart, Quins tighthead going in on the angle. Tempest bottles it.

That last turnover was pretty 50/50 as well, Quins player isn't supporting his own weight and is carried back only by the Chiefs ruckers.

Quins have been the better team but they've really struggled in the conditions. Rescued by Smith.

Jesus. To win like that after blowing so many chances was pretty amazing. Not sure if we were really the better team but I’ll take it. I imagine Green will be among the most relieved. Horrendous game from him.

FKAS I simply disagree on the Marler incident, I don’t think what Simmonds did was safe at all, Hepburn certainly didn’t help though.

Maybe head injury assessments only assess concussion and not head injuries, but if world rugby are serious about head injuries then I’d think having a look at players who get driven directly on to their head with quite a lot of force/weight would be a sensible move.

Quins made heavy weather of winning that. Green wont want to watch the replay.

Big effort from Exe to get that close to a win. They defended really well in the 3rd quarter and did brilliantly to take the lead. Undone by a very smart piece of work from Smith in the end.

The red was literally one of the last actions of the half, I’m sure they checked if Marler was ok during the break.

Thought Simmonds’ clear out was pretty standard until Hepburn got involved. Think Marler would have ended up on his back without Hepburn lifting, twisting and then letting go.

Enjoyable game even in the conditions. Quins showing that they can guts out a tough win in the rain agains a good team. Exeter showing that they’ve got their hunger back.

FKAS wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Red for Simmonds as well IMO. Don’t get why he gets away with that at all. That could so easily have been a broken neck for anyone that isn’t built like Marler.

Also Marler should definitely have to go for an HIA after an incident like that. Very strange that always gets overlooked in those situations that aren’t a head-on-head.

No. For starters without Hepburn joining in Marler never gets tipped onto his neck and secondly Simmonds attempts to put him down safely.

Quins have made really hard work of playing against 14 men, good job they didn't play in the rain last season because on a wet day they've blown three tries.

Didn't see this game but have just seen the replay of the Marler clear out. How on earth are you claiming that Simmonds 'attempts to put him down safely'? He does nothing to slow the fall of Marler onto the top of his head at all. Simmonds was already in the process of lifting him up above horizontal before Hepburn came in and finished the job.

Mikey Brown wrote:Jesus. To win like that after blowing so many chances was pretty amazing. Not sure if we were really the better team but I’ll take it. I imagine Green will be among the most relieved. Horrendous game from him.

As much as I love, Green he hasn’t been great for the past few weeks. It could be a good time to give Nick David a run to see how he goes?

Jones was pretty shocking when he came on too. He’s got great footwork, but his game sense is really poor - he got turned over on both of his first two carries and almost never passes.

Adam_P wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Red for Simmonds as well IMO. Don’t get why he gets away with that at all. That could so easily have been a broken neck for anyone that isn’t built like Marler.

Also Marler should definitely have to go for an HIA after an incident like that. Very strange that always gets overlooked in those situations that aren’t a head-on-head.

No. For starters without Hepburn joining in Marler never gets tipped onto his neck and secondly Simmonds attempts to put him down safely.

Quins have made really hard work of playing against 14 men, good job they didn't play in the rain last season because on a wet day they've blown three tries.

Didn't see this game but have just seen the replay of the Marler clear out. How on earth are you claiming that Simmonds 'attempts to put him down safely'? He does nothing to slow the fall of Marler onto the top of his head at all. Simmonds was already in the process of lifting him up above horizontal before Hepburn came in and finished the job.

Simmonds only has hold of one leg. Lifting Marler and dropping him onto his head via one leg would be very difficult. Whether it would have been on the horizontal I can't remember. My impression at the time was that Hepburn coming in took it into the dangerous territory and the red card for Hepburn was spot on.

The suggestion of a double red card is a hard no from me. For starters there's no precedent for that as it would ruin the game as a spectacle and secondly you'd have to be 100% sure that both players were doing something with intent to injure which I don't think they were. Hepburn looked tired and lazy as opposed to malicious and without him joining in I doubt Simmonds even concedes the penalty.

Enjoyed the game as a spectacle. I was left wondering how Quins did not win by a distance combined with a feeling that Exeter had been reffed out of it despite no debate on the red card incident. Quins seemed to get all the marginal decisions. Baxter will be pleased with the team spirit and confident looking forward.

Hooking the arm/shoulder while you lift the leg is fine if you're going to drive them to one side but Simmonds is always steering Marler headfirst towards the ground. At best I can see how Marler might not have fallen as far on to his head if Hepburn hadn't got involved, but Simmonds is lifting Marler off the ground while tipping him head-first before Hepburn lifts the other leg.



I was expecting red for Simmonds and maybe a yellow for Hepburn to be honest, but they were both reckless and dangerous. No precedent or ruining the spectacle simply isn't an argument. If 2 players choose to do idiotic, dangerous things at the same moment then why not? Would you only have carded one of Mealamu/Umaga in hindsight?

Oakboy wrote:Enjoyed the game as a spectacle. I was left wondering how Quins did not win by a distance combined with a feeling that Exeter had been reffed out of it despite no debate on the red card incident. Quins seemed to get all the marginal decisions. Baxter will be pleased with the team spirit and confident looking forward.

Seems a fair enough assessment. It feels like Quins should have been way ahead at half time, but Exeter were the far better team for most of the second.

Scrumhead wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Jesus. To win like that after blowing so many chances was pretty amazing. Not sure if we were really the better team but I’ll take it. I imagine Green will be among the most relieved. Horrendous game from him.

As much as I love, Green he hasn’t been great for the past few weeks. It could be a good time to give Nick David a run to see how he goes?

Jones was pretty shocking when he came on too. He’s got great footwork, but his game sense is really poor - he got turned over on both of his first two carries and almost never passes.

Was Jones at fault for being turned over though? Our support play was pretty awful. Either way things aren't really clicking for him. It's a shame we haven't managed to get anything much from his attacking talents.

I wonder if Green is a bit burnt out? He seems to play 80 every single week.

Mikey Brown wrote:Hooking the arm/shoulder while you lift the leg is fine if you're going to drive them to one side but Simmonds is always steering Marler headfirst towards the ground. At best I can see how Marler might not have fallen as far on to his head if Hepburn hadn't got involved, but Simmonds is lifting Marler off the ground while tipping him head-first before Hepburn lifts the other leg.



I was expecting red for Simmonds and maybe a yellow for Hepburn to be honest, but they were both reckless and dangerous. No precedent or ruining the spectacle simply isn't an argument. If 2 players choose to do idiotic, dangerous things at the same moment then why not? Would you only have carded one of Mealamu/Umaga in hindsight?

One fundamental difference, IMO, is that those two ####s definitely wanted to damage BOD as much as they could. Simmonds was marginally careless at worst. Hepburn was reckless/silly. Neither S or H intended to injure. The two NZ players certainly did. At first view, in real time, my instant reaction was red for Hepburn. None of the replays, slow-mo or full speed, changed that opinion.

Mikey Brown wrote:Hooking the arm/shoulder while you lift the leg is fine if you're going to drive them to one side but Simmonds is always steering Marler headfirst towards the ground. At best I can see how Marler might not have fallen as far on to his head if Hepburn hadn't got involved, but Simmonds is lifting Marler off the ground while tipping him head-first before Hepburn lifts the other leg.



I was expecting red for Simmonds and maybe a yellow for Hepburn to be honest, but they were both reckless and dangerous. No precedent or ruining the spectacle simply isn't an argument. If 2 players choose to do idiotic, dangerous things at the same moment then why not? Would you only have carded one of Mealamu/Umaga in hindsight?

I've seen plenty of side on lifts not get anything this season and for years previously. If any ruck time the player being lifted has one foot and hands on the floor it's normally overlooked. Whether it should be overlooked is another thing. To suggest a red for Simmonds? Absolutely no chance. Hepburn is 100% the more dangerous party and can't be a yellow as he literally drops a player onto his head.

Also Joe's put his head down there, Simmonds isn't forcing him downwards. Marler is trying to compete over the ball.

Despite Ugo's cries I don't think it's like the BOD Lions incident. That was thuggery this looked like a tired prop making a lazy choice in support of his backrow.