RugbyRebels

How do we feel about this? I hate the Tories for destroying a precious cornerstone of our democracy. Why must they dismantle every institution that makes Britain what it is.

Zhivago wrote:How do we feel about this? I hate the Tories for destroying a precious cornerstone of our democracy. Why must they dismantle every institution that makes Britain what it is.

It’s pretty clear that there isn’t a plan. This is a operation Red Meat to get the core Tory support back in stride with team Boris. Dories made it clear that there are discussions to be had about what replaces it.

I think the BBC mostly does a good job and I have no issue with paying a license fee for genuine public service stuff. The issue I think is that the BBC has been competing for years with other broadcasters and the public service stuff is now just part of wider entertainment. Having a rethink isn’t the worst idea except that little thinking has been done yet but a timetable has been published which will probably lead to poor decision making.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:How do we feel about this? I hate the Tories for destroying a precious cornerstone of our democracy. Why must they dismantle every institution that makes Britain what it is.

It’s pretty clear that there isn’t a plan. This is a operation Red Meat to get the core Tory support back in stride with team Boris. Dories made it clear that there are discussions to be had about what replaces it.

I think the BBC mostly does a good job and I have no issue with paying a license fee for genuine public service stuff. The issue I think is that the BBC has been competing for years with other broadcasters and the public service stuff is now just part of wider entertainment. Having a rethink isn’t the worst idea except that little thinking has been done yet but a timetable has been published which will probably lead to poor decision making.

Subscription model wouldn't be too bad. But any commercial revenue streams should be out of the question.

Maybe. I've given this as much thought as Dories obviously has but can see clear difference between the entertainment aspects which could be a subscription, and the public service element. Maybe News24 could be funded separately with clear legislation on its independence.

Not sure about S4C and BBC Alba. Perhaps the devolved governments could sponsor them?

Sandydragon wrote:Maybe. I've given this as much thought as Dories obviously has but can see clear difference between the entertainment aspects which could be a subscription, and the public service element. Maybe News24 could be funded separately with clear legislation on its independence.

Not sure about S4C and BBC Alba. Perhaps the devolved governments could sponsor them?

They could do what they have here in Netherlands with a free basic set of public channels, and a separate set for subscription. Here it is NPO Start and NPO Plus. Seems a sensible approach. NPO is the equivalent of the BBC, Nederlands Publieke Omroep/Netherlands Public Broadcasting.

It's in fact a bit more diversified, the NPO is more of a governing organisation and there are multiple public broadcasters within that organisation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_pub ... ing_system

Interesting for comparison.

Also the timing of this announcement is clearly a dead cat strategy to distract from partygate.

Pure political vandalism.

It's insane. The BBC is one of the only things that is genuinely world-leading in the UK. And it's one of the few ways the UK actually has a cultural punch above it's weight. So, our own champions of Global Britain obviously want to reduce its funding, then defund it completely.

This is a very dangerous time since Johnson is now desperate to retain the affections of the Tory MPs and members. He'll throw them whatever half-arsed, half-formulated plans which might appeal to the rightest of the right wing. He doesn't even care so much what the general population think of them because they only become relevant in 2 or 3 years.

Hopefully Labour can present themselves as the guardians of the BBC, just like they're guardians of the NHS. This may well be a gift to Starmer.

Zhivago wrote:Also the timing of this announcement is clearly a dead cat strategy to distract from partygate.

Operation Red Meat. It’s all about saving the Big Dog.

I remember when the pandemic first struck and everyone was having to homeschool without the first clue what to do, the BBC was a lifesaver. They did entire mornings of educational programming, every single lesson provided by the school included a link to a BBC webpage with little videos about things like how the Tudors lived or educational games, and every single parent knows the value of being able to plonk the kids in front of CBeebies to get some work done and feel that they're at least getting something vaguely wholesome rather than just braindead shite like Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig. There will be people who had kids through the lockdown who vitally needed those services, who will complain bitterly when they're gone, and who won't connect their loss to Tory talk of "licence fees stealing money from pensioners" and think it's just all going to Gary Lineker because that's what the Mail complains about.

Sheer barbarism.

Incidentally, this is a perfect case study for why the idea of setting up a tax specifically ringfenced for the NHS/social care would not be a great idea - even something specifically set aside for a purpose can be sabotaged by a hostile government by things like adding extra things under its purview without increasing the budget, demanding more for less, freezing the tax to help "ordinary working folk", before whipping up enough outrage to cancel it altogether because "it clearly doesn't work properly."

Puja

Puja wrote:I remember when the pandemic first struck and everyone was having to homeschool without the first clue what to do, the BBC was a lifesaver. They did entire mornings of educational programming, every single lesson provided by the school included a link to a BBC webpage with little videos about things like how the Tudors lived or educational games, and every single parent knows the value of being able to plonk the kids in front of CBeebies to get some work done and feel that they're at least getting something vaguely wholesome rather than just braindead shite like Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig. There will be people who had kids through the lockdown who vitally needed those services, who will complain bitterly when they're gone, and who won't connect their loss to Tory talk of "licence fees stealing money from pensioners" and think it's just all going to Gary Lineker because that's what the Mail complains about.

Sheer barbarism.

Incidentally, this is a perfect case study for why the idea of setting up a tax specifically ringfenced for the NHS/social care would not be a great idea - even something specifically set aside for a purpose can be sabotaged by a hostile government by things like adding extra things under its purview without increasing the budget, demanding more for less, freezing the tax to help "ordinary working folk", before whipping up enough outrage to cancel it altogether because "it clearly doesn't work properly."

Puja

A government would do that even if it wasn’t ringfenced. In fact they are more likely to make changes if not ring fences as it would be easier to hide.

Does this win the prize for the quickest u-turn in government history? Surprisingly, Dorries and her team doing actually have any alternatives for the license fee and have pulled back from the original announcement. Clearly, a huge amount of work into working out the alternatives hasn't taken place and Dorries just throught of something to throw to the press to divert attention from non-parties at no 10 and to placate the Tory right.

Sandydragon wrote:Does this win the prize for the quickest u-turn in government history? Surprisingly, Dorries and her team doing actually have any alternatives for the license fee and have pulled back from the original announcement. Clearly, a huge amount of work into working out the alternatives hasn't taken place and Dorries just throught of something to throw to the press to divert attention from non-parties at no 10 and to placate the Tory right.

Nah, this government's had plenty of u-turns within 24 hours of the leak of the intention, without even getting as far as the announcement to u-turn from.
It's easy to forget that this government decides by leaking and assessing the backlash, rather by announcing and developing policy

It's nice to see that people still have an affection for the BBC, I rarely watch ITV as the programs are shit and whereas the vast amount of stuff on the BBC doesn't appeal there are some gems which make it worthwhile for me.

Numbers wrote:It's nice to see that people still have an affection for the BBC, I rarely watch ITV as the programs are shit and whereas the vast amount of stuff on the BBC doesn't appeal there are some gems which make it worthwhile for me.

Same here. And BBC news is still the best TV news show compared to the alternatives. I'd also echo the home learning point Puja makes below.

I'm not suggesting the BBC is perfect and some of its programming is just awful. But on the whole, given I subscribe to other services for about £7.99 per month each and don't watch all their content, the license fee of £13 ish is decent value

Numbers wrote:It's nice to see that people still have an affection for the BBC, I rarely watch ITV as the programs are shit and whereas the vast amount of stuff on the BBC doesn't appeal there are some gems which make it worthwhile for me.

Similar, and frankly there isn't much excuse for some of the dross they pour out- gameshows, reality nonsense, anything with Lord Sugar ; standards of journalism are plummeting imo- not biased, just poor and increasingly padded with editorial.

Boris is just a complete fuckwit.

The car's on fire. And there's no driver at the wheel.
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. And a dark wind blows.
The government is corrupt. And we're all on so many drugs, with the radio on and the curtains drawn.
We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death.
The sun is falling down. And the billboards are all leering. And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles.

morepork wrote:Boris is just a complete fuckwit.

The car's on fire. And there's no driver at the wheel.
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. And a dark wind blows.
The government is corrupt. And we're all on so many drugs, with the radio on and the curtains drawn.
We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death.
The sun is falling down. And the billboards are all leering. And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles.

Such use of metaphor! Give up the day job, you're wasted on medicine*.


(* You may detect a double meaning in this phrase )