RugbyRebels

What’s the verdict on the play offs then? Are we looking at the league table being replicated with Tigers and Saracens wins or will the local derby factor make the difference?

From a Quins POV, I would love to beat Saracens, but I worry that our defence is just too leaky. Heart says a glorious Quins win, head says Saracens

Tigers vs. Saints is harder to call. If Tigers have Montoya and Kelly back, that will make a big difference. If not, I wonder … Saints attack is looking good right now and I definitely wouldn’t rule out an upset.

Think you have to favour the 2 home sides. Wouldnt rule out either Quins or Saints winning but feel that pretty much everything will have to go their way for that to happen.

I've had a horrible feeling that Saracens will win all season and its still there, just moreso. I think Leicester have to win (ahead all season, Borthwick the coming man for England etc etc) which is why they won't. Teams have had all eyes on them all season and will gamplan accordingly. Agree with you about Saints being probably the most likely upset out of the two.
Whilst I'd love Quins to win again, I imagine teams will be factoring in the likelihood of a heroic comeback now and have a plan to stop it at source, against Sarries in particular, I'm just not sure it'll work.

I am concerned about Saints. They are in form and we have been stumbling over the finishing line a little bit. Plus a derby throws the form book out of the window. Montoya will be key - if he's fit, we should be okay, but if Clare's starting, I think we're stuffed.

Concerned about Saracens or Quins tbh as well. Saracens are very good at winning and Quins have Twickenham as a second home and love the big stage. It's been a tremendous season, but I'm not sure we're going to finish it off.

Puja

As with, I expect, almost all neutrals - I'd love to see a Quins win in the first game. Do feel like they'll have to be absolutely on song to get through Saracens defence consistently enough to win, but it's certainly do-able. In the Saints v Saracens game the other week they looked pretty much impenetrable for the most part, but gaps did appear in the 2nd half and were exploited. Fingers crossed that resting their whole first team this round works against them and loses them some momentum.

Obviously hoping for a Saints win in the other, but it's very hard to call. Tigers have been very good pretty much all season, but like Puja said they do seem to be simmering down a little. Conversely Saints seem to be peaking at the right time, and have some key men back from injury. Throw the East Mids derby context into the mix, and really it's anyone's guess.

I to am a bit concerned about Saints. Tigers have stuffed them twice this season and we're at Welford Road, it's all just too convenient and prime for an upset. It's prime for a big kick off argument about the playoffs what with Tigers being dominant all season and still providing players to England.

I'm not massively concerned about the Saints attack, yes it's very good but so is the Tigers defence. I'm more worried about the Tigers attack, it's looked a bit impotent recently and whilst I'm hoping that we are just holding a bit back that might be optimistic on my part. I'm particularly concerned that our go to lineout weapon isn't working with Clare throwing in, Dolly won't be back and I think we're in massive trouble if Montoya isn't fit.

I think Quins could be primed to cause an upset. The Quins brand if attacking rugby is going to really test the Sarries defence that hasn't looked as air tight as previously. As a Tigers fan I'm rather hoping Quins win as the Tigers power game is far more likely to get us points Vs Quins than it will Vs Sarries.

BT execs are no doubt delighted with a derby double header for the play offs.

I think the Saints/Tigers game has Chris Ashton written all over it, one way or another.

Purely from the spectacle viewpoint, I'd like to see a Saints v Quins final. The probability is that it will be Leicester v Saracens.

Oakboy wrote:Purely from the spectacle viewpoint, I'd like to see a Saints v Quins final. The probability is that it will be Leicester v Saracens.

I reckon it'll be Sarries v Saints, which would be interesting.

Agree with most in here, heart wants Quins v Saints but head says Sarries v Leicester.

I’d like to see if we can do our thing from the start vs Sarries but still bring the precision and aggression required. We can’t expect them to let go of a comfortable lead like other sides have done.

I’m fully expecting Itoje to goad Symons or Marler in to doing something idiotic, or there to be a card involving Esterhuizen/Farrell in some way.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Purely from the spectacle viewpoint, I'd like to see a Saints v Quins final. The probability is that it will be Leicester v Saracens.

I reckon it'll be Sarries v Saints, which would be interesting.

Sarries put 40 odd points on them only a couple of weeks ago and were 25 points up with 10 mins left before taking their foot off the gas. Saints have a great attack but it's inconsistent and their defence is somewhat porous. They must be hoping to do damage early against Tigers and then hold on and get Quins in the final which could go to a ding dong battle.

If Saints play Sarries in the final then I can see it being over by halftime.

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Purely from the spectacle viewpoint, I'd like to see a Saints v Quins final. The probability is that it will be Leicester v Saracens.

I reckon it'll be Sarries v Saints, which would be interesting.

Sarries put 40 odd points on them only a couple of weeks ago and were 25 points up with 10 mins left before taking their foot off the gas. Saints have a great attack but it's inconsistent and their defence is somewhat porous. They must be hoping to do damage early against Tigers and then hold on and get Quins in the final which could go to a ding dong battle.

If Saints play Sarries in the final then I can see it being over by halftime.

mystic meg in the house.

Well it is a prediction thread isn't it lol

Tigers are fading and Saints peaking.
Tigers have suffered in terms of attack outside the Bristol game they have failed to score a TBP since Clermont
If Montoya is out it's a massive problem with Dolly out as well Clare is a solid hooker but not as good at the maul game as the other 2.

But same time Saints have only played 2 games in since end of April, and haven't won an away game since London Irish in March, also against top 6 teams away they have lost all of them conceding
35 v Tigers
42 v Sarries
41 v Quins
35 v Gloucester
30 v Sale

Tigers have conceded 30 pionts or more twice this season (In the prem or europe) v Sarries and Sale away

Just realised that the semi will be the first time this season Saints and Tigers have clashed with squads that haven't been raided by internationals

Adam_P wrote:Just realised that the semi will be the first time this season Saints and Tigers have clashed with squads that haven't been raided by internationals

That's right, I'd forgotten about that. Ford and Biggar still faced off in the game at the Gardens though as that was the weekend before the AIs.

Tigers and quin's say the heart. Tigers to win it so borthers is locked in as England coach.

Head says Tigers and Sarries. And Christ knows what happens in the final. Oh, and Esterhezen (so) to be red carded for hitting Farrell's shoulder with his head.

Here’s a question if Tigers lose at home as favourites to Saints does that put a massive dent in Borthwicks England chances?

Considering they want to appoint someone before the RWC.

Tigersman wrote:Here’s a question if Tigers lose at home as favourites to Saints does that put a massive dent in Borthwicks England chances?

Considering they want to appoint someone before the RWC.

It might raise questions after losing the final to Montpellier last year, getting knocked out by Leinster and then potentially another knock out game loss despite clearly dominating the league all season.

FKAS wrote:

Tigersman wrote:Here’s a question if Tigers lose at home as favourites to Saints does that put a massive dent in Borthwicks England chances?

Considering they want to appoint someone before the RWC.

It might raise questions after losing the final to Montpellier last year, getting knocked out by Leinster and then potentially another knock out game loss despite clearly dominating the league all season.

Indeed. Borthwick's only got a very short resume, especially in being the top man, and so it's only enough to put him in the box seat if he wins. While a semi-final or a final would be far from a failed season (hands up all Tigers fans who would've bitten the hand off at the wrist if offered that at the start of the season?) or suggest any problems with him as a DoR, it wouldn't be enough to overcome his short tenure to my mind.

Puja

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Tigersman wrote:Here’s a question if Tigers lose at home as favourites to Saints does that put a massive dent in Borthwicks England chances?

Considering they want to appoint someone before the RWC.

It might raise questions after losing the final to Montpellier last year, getting knocked out by Leinster and then potentially another knock out game loss despite clearly dominating the league all season.

Indeed. Borthwick's only got a very short resume, especially in being the top man, and so it's only enough to put him in the box seat if he wins. While a semi-final or a final would be far from a failed season (hands up all Tigers fans who would've bitten the hand off at the wrist if offered that at the start of the season?) or suggest any problems with him as a DoR, it wouldn't be enough to overcome his short tenure to my mind.

Puja

Agreed. I think he's a fantastic coach but this is the wrong world cup cycle to bring him in. It's the easy option in that his contract situation, being club based and working well with Eddie would allow him to join up with England for the world cup but I think it would be a continuation of the current regime which isn't necessarily what we need. Greater experience for England and for Borthwick would hp both parties going forward. I am somewhat bias in wanting to see him drive Tigers on and have time to build something.

That being said if Borthwick doesn't win coach of the year I'm calling bull shit bias.

Interesting dilemma, that. Is Borthwick's time with Jones a plus or a minus? Starting from where Leicester were at and getting them to be champs, should they win the play-offs, ought to hand him the job. Might his coaching approach, background and overall rugby prowess suit the club game/set-up more than the international one? (Indeed, might that also apply to Jones?) It was certainly so for Borthwick as a player.

Oakboy wrote:Interesting dilemma, that. Is Borthwick's time with Jones a plus or a minus? Starting from where Leicester were at and getting them to be champs, should they win the play-offs, ought to hand him the job. Might his coaching approach, background and overall rugby prowess suit the club game/set-up more than the international one? (Indeed, might that also apply to Jones?) It was certainly so for Borthwick as a player.

Borthers was Eddie's right hand man. I just think that a lot of the media, including the former players getting vocal in the media, want a change in style. Borthwick isn't going to bring that, he likes his set pieces, his defence and his tactics. He doesn't like talking to the media much either so I can see the knives being sharpened fairly quickly, even if England are winning.

Unfair to say Eddie is best suited to club rugby. Took Australia to a world cup final, helped Japan achieve one of the biggest upsets in world cup history and then took England to a world cup final. He holds England's longest unbeaten run as well. His periods of experimentation and the detriment to short term results are very frustrating and a little bit unnecessary perhaps but we'll forgive him the last two 6Ns if he brings home the William Web Ellis Cup won't we.

I'd love a coach who isn't so obsessed with talking to the media, but agree it would probably be best for Borthwick's development to have a bit more time and another few goes in Europe.

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Interesting dilemma, that. Is Borthwick's time with Jones a plus or a minus? Starting from where Leicester were at and getting them to be champs, should they win the play-offs, ought to hand him the job. Might his coaching approach, background and overall rugby prowess suit the club game/set-up more than the international one? (Indeed, might that also apply to Jones?) It was certainly so for Borthwick as a player.

Borthers was Eddie's right hand man. I just think that a lot of the media, including the former players getting vocal in the media, want a change in style. Borthwick isn't going to bring that, he likes his set pieces, his defence and his tactics. He doesn't like talking to the media much either so I can see the knives being sharpened fairly quickly, even if England are winning.

Unfair to say Eddie is best suited to club rugby. Took Australia to a world cup final, helped Japan achieve one of the biggest upsets in world cup history and then took England to a world cup final. He holds England's longest unbeaten run as well. His periods of experimentation and the detriment to short term results are very frustrating and a little bit unnecessary perhaps but we'll forgive him the last two 6Ns if he brings home the William Web Ellis Cup won't we.

Yes, I (oddly ) agree that Borthers possible issue might be external communication. Its a big bit of the job, rightly or wrongly.

Oakboy wrote:Purely from the spectacle viewpoint, I'd like to see a Saints v Quins final. The probability is that it will be Leicester v Saracens.

This is exactly where I am - though I wouldn't begrudge Leicester a final spot given how we'll they've played all season.

My hunch is that
- Quins won't win it
- Saints are unlikely to win it
- Leicester might well win it
- Saracens will probably win it