RugbyRebels

Forwards

Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Luke Cowan-Dickie
Tom Curry
Ellis Genge
Joe Heyes
Jonny Hill
Maro Itoje
Courtney Lawes
Lewis Ludlam
George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Val Rapava Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Jack Singleton
Hugh Tizard (Saracens, uncapped)
Billy Vunipola
Mako Vunipola
Jack Willis

Backs

Henry Arundell
Joe Cokanasiga
Owen Farrell
Max Malins
George Furbank
Will Joseph
Jonny May
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Jack Nowell
Guy Porter
Raffi Quirke
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Jack van Poortlviet
Ben Youngs

Unavailable for selection due to injury: Alfie Barbeary, Ollie Chessum, Nic Dolly, Alex Dombrandt, Charlie Ewels, George Ford, Tommy Freeman, Jamie George, Sam Jeffries, Nick Isiekwe, Harry Randall, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill, Jack Walker.

Great to see Murley in there. As ever, some weird ones. No Watson. No Kenningham or Evans.

Instant takeaways: Great to see Quirke straight back in - he has looked instantly absolutely mustard since coming back from injury. Shame no Lawrence, but I can understand - two belting games does not a season make. Great to see we're at least having a look at Murley.

In the props, VRR finally getting a call - hope he stays fit. No Schickerling suggests the RFU have finally, belatedly, done their due diligence.

Puja

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:59 am Great to see Murley in there. As ever, some weird ones. No Watson. No Kenningham or Evans.

I don't mind about Kenningham and Evans so much - who would they displace out of JWillis, Lawes, TCurry, Ludlam to stand a chance of even getting in a XXIII? Watson as well - his form does not demand it and, while class is permanent, May also has that without the full form yet and we can't carry both.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:02 am

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:59 am Great to see Murley in there. As ever, some weird ones. No Watson. No Kenningham or Evans.

I don't mind about Kenningham and Evans so much - who would they displace out of JWillis, Lawes, TCurry, Ludlam to stand a chance of even getting in a XXIII? Watson as well - his form does not demand it and, while class is permanent, May also has that without the full form yet and we can't carry both.

Puja

Sure. Was a pure comment. Tried to think who else is missing...and somehow didn't think of the two Quins OCs...
Northmore or Marchant are surely worth a look...

Has Porter even been playing this season?

That’s a lot of locks. Is he really looking at Coles as a 6?

Marchant truly done for. No Slade is surprising, as is Malins over Daly.

Props - I assume thats it for Marler? 4 LH's is one too many though i am very pleased Val R-R finally gets some recognition. Only 2 TH's. Schickerling seemingly doesnt qualify which begs the question, how the hell wasnt it properly checked out before he was called into the squad? If something happens to Sink or Heyes who comes in?
Hooker - Boy are we light here. LCD is fair enough, then we have an uncapped yet deserving McGuigan and the exceptionally ordinary Singleton.
Locks - No Launchbury so i assume thats his England career over. Very pleased for Ribbans and i think Coles is a good shout.
Back row - Hope Lawes is going to be fit. Tom Willis a bit unlucky. Pearson left out which is a shame but 7 is well covered with Curry & J Willis.
SH - Youngs back at the expense of Mitchell. Pity but at least JVP & Quirke are there.
FH - Smith and Farrell. Might have been an idea to bring in a youngster like Atkinson or are apprentices now out of fashion? Does Furbank cover if we get an injury?
Centres - No Marchant, Slade, Dingwall, Daly or Lawrence. But we get Porter. Ho hum....Joseph retained so that is a positive. If Farrell goes down do we have anyone who can play IC?
Back 3 - Murley in - yes!! he deserves it. May is a trifle lucky and Watson just hasnt played enough. Pity Freeman picked up an injury.

Interesting. If I was picking a starting XV Marler, T Willis, Slade, Marchant and Daly would be in it. None are in the squad.

The 'new direction' seems odd to me but presumably there is time to get a solid unit built. Is there a defence coach yet?

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:22 am Props - I assume thats it for Marler? 4 LH's is one too many though i am very pleased Val R-R finally gets some recognition. Only 2 TH's. Schickerling seemingly doesnt qualify which begs the question, how the hell wasnt it properly checked out before he was called into the squad? If something happens to Sink or Heyes who comes in?
Hooker - Boy are we light here. LCD is fair enough, then we have an uncapped yet deserving McGuigan and the exceptionally ordinary Singleton.
Locks - No Launchbury so i assume thats his England career over. Very pleased for Ribbans and i think Coles is a good shout.
Back row - Hope Lawes is going to be fit. Tom Willis a bit unlucky. Pearson left out which is a shame but 7 is well covered with Curry & J Willis.
SH - Youngs back at the expense of Mitchell. Pity but at least JVP & Quirke are there.
FH - Smith and Farrell. Might have been an idea to bring in a youngster like Atkinson or are apprentices now out of fashion? Does Furbank cover if we get an injury?
Centres - No Marchant, Slade, Dingwall, Daly or Lawrence. But we get Porter. Ho hum....Joseph retained so that is a positive. If Farrell goes down do we have anyone who can play IC?
Back 3 - Murley in - yes!! he deserves it. May is a trifle lucky and Watson just hasnt played enough. Pity Freeman picked up an injury.

Good summary. I agree on everything you’ve said there.

Porter over Slade, Marchant and Lawrence is just mental. He’s comfortably the least impressive of those 4 when he is playing let alone when he isn’t FFS!

I assume Tuilagi would cover 12 if Farrell were to be injured.

Murley and McGugian really are the only saving graces for me.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:15 am Has Porter even been playing this season?

That’s a lot of locks. Is he really looking at Coles as a 6?

Marchant truly done for. No Slade is surprising, as is Malins over Daly.

Porter has played, but his defence was pony again. How he gets in ahead of Slade, Lawrence, Marchant or even me is amazing.

Malins is an odd selection as you say.

Coles has been very good and is versatile....nit sure he's an intl 6 tho. Suspect he's the Chessum potl understudy.

Gutted Freeman is crocked again.

I'd have picked Watson, despite lack of game time, and I'd have him ahead of May and Nowell if those were the choices.

It looks like a decent squad you can get a good 23 out of.

Now, how many of that good 23 will still be fit come the first game and will Eddie pick it and put them in their actual positions?

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:16 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:15 am Has Porter even been playing this season?

That’s a lot of locks. Is he really looking at Coles as a 6?

Marchant truly done for. No Slade is surprising, as is Malins over Daly.

Porter has played, but his defence was pony again. How he gets in ahead of Slade, Lawrence, Marchant or even me is amazing.

Malins is an odd selection as you say.

Coles has been very good and is versatile....nit sure he's an intl 6 tho. Suspect he's the Chessum potl understudy.

Gutted Freeman is crocked again.

I'd have picked Watson, despite lack of game time, and I'd have him ahead of May and Nowell if those were the choices.

Porter is truly baffling. At least Malins has been in good form.

Coles has been one of Saints’ best players and I agree that he’s probably being looked at as Chessum’s understudy.

With Chessum, Isiekwe and ahem … Ewels unavailable, we’re having to dig quite deep on locks. I suspect a few have been included on the assumption that not all of them can/will make the step up.

I suspect Porter is a placeholder for Eddie to replace with whomever the form centre is before the AIs. He went off with concussion Vs Saints and hasn't been seen since with no games bar the mid week PRC Vs Falcons to demonstrate any level of fitness.

He was very good Vs Falcons and Saints bar a mistake for one of the tries. I'd have swapped him out for Lawrence though, he's in dynamite form.

Not sure on Alex Coles, never really seen him as a standout player when I've seen Saints. Ribbans getting a chance is good ditto Tizard.

Don't get the four looseheads call. We have other tightheads around the league we could have looked at, I don't mean the Dan Cole panic button either. Hill, Davison, Williams have all been in squads previously.

Furbank and Malins in the squad seems a bit of a waste, pick one and then recall Marchant with the spare spot.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:27 pm I suspect Porter is a placeholder for Eddie to replace with whomever the form centre is before the AIs. He went off with concussion Vs Saints and hasn't been seen since with no games bar the mid week PRC Vs Falcons to demonstrate any level of fitness.

He was very good Vs Falcons and Saints bar a mistake for one of the tries. I'd have swapped him out for Lawrence though, he's in dynamite form.

Not sure on Alex Coles, never really seen him as a standout player when I've seen Saints. Ribbans getting a chance is good ditto Tizard.

Don't get the four looseheads call. We have other tightheads around the league we could have looked at, I don't mean the Dan Cole panic button either. Hill, Davison, Williams have all been in squads previously.

Furbank and Malins in the squad seems a bit of a waste, pick one and then recall Marchant with the spare spot.

His defence has been rank every time I have seen him. Extremely lucky.
Coles was absolutely outstanding v Wasps. You clearly didnt see that one. Great lineout and engine, still raw at 6 tbf
Agreed on the rest. Outside backs, in fact all the backs selection is ....a bit weird.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:39 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:27 pm I suspect Porter is a placeholder for Eddie to replace with whomever the form centre is before the AIs. He went off with concussion Vs Saints and hasn't been seen since with no games bar the mid week PRC Vs Falcons to demonstrate any level of fitness.

He was very good Vs Falcons and Saints bar a mistake for one of the tries. I'd have swapped him out for Lawrence though, he's in dynamite form.

Not sure on Alex Coles, never really seen him as a standout player when I've seen Saints. Ribbans getting a chance is good ditto Tizard.

Don't get the four looseheads call. We have other tightheads around the league we could have looked at, I don't mean the Dan Cole panic button either. Hill, Davison, Williams have all been in squads previously.

Furbank and Malins in the squad seems a bit of a waste, pick one and then recall Marchant with the spare spot.

His defence has been rank every time I have seen him. Extremely lucky.
Coles was absolutely outstanding v Wasps. You clearly didnt see that one. Great lineout and engine, still raw at 6 tbf
Agreed on the rest. Outside backs, in fact all the backs selection is ....a bit weird.

Only saw the end of the Saints Vs Wasps game so may have missed Coles making a mark in that one.

Porter's defence, well maybe you've only watched him in the summer and Vs Saints, where his stats were bad but generally his performance wasn't.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:51 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:39 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:27 pm I suspect Porter is a placeholder for Eddie to replace with whomever the form centre is before the AIs. He went off with concussion Vs Saints and hasn't been seen since with no games bar the mid week PRC Vs Falcons to demonstrate any level of fitness.

He was very good Vs Falcons and Saints bar a mistake for one of the tries. I'd have swapped him out for Lawrence though, he's in dynamite form.

Not sure on Alex Coles, never really seen him as a standout player when I've seen Saints. Ribbans getting a chance is good ditto Tizard.

Don't get the four looseheads call. We have other tightheads around the league we could have looked at, I don't mean the Dan Cole panic button either. Hill, Davison, Williams have all been in squads previously.

Furbank and Malins in the squad seems a bit of a waste, pick one and then recall Marchant with the spare spot.

His defence has been rank every time I have seen him. Extremely lucky.
Coles was absolutely outstanding v Wasps. You clearly didnt see that one. Great lineout and engine, still raw at 6 tbf
Agreed on the rest. Outside backs, in fact all the backs selection is ....a bit weird.

Only saw the end of the Saints Vs Wasps game so may have missed Coles making a mark in that one.

Porter's defence, well maybe you've only watched him in the summer and Vs Saints, where his stats were bad but generally his performance wasn't.

That's about right, but his defence was very poor in all the games I saw him in (and surely the summer was enough to tell us and eddie that he wasn't ready), Saints included. He was right in front of me, and he frankly doesn't seem to know what he is doing at 13 in defence. Even if he was defending well, he's not close to those he is ahead of in Eddie's eyes. He's not a bad player, but I'm not really sure what he brings yet, other than maybe a bit of aussie twang

(Yeah, you missed his two tries, 62m made and 19 tackles plus a load of lineout ball)

It's quite an un-Eddie squad in that people who don't really deserve to be there have been retained based on the very Eddie trait of loyalty and 'time in camp' and not picked for absolute random reasons.

Well done to Murley, and Rapava-Ruskin is long overdue a call up too.

Can't understand Daly's omission after his run of form for Sarries. Even if Jones does not want him in the starting XV, he can cover several positions off the bench, still has gas, a big left boot and is a very good long range goal kicker too.
May is lucky to be there with no demonstrated form this season (same as Watson), and I doubt that Nowell or Cockanasiga are ever going to hit the heights as really outstanding international wings, especially Nowell who has had umpteen opportunities by now.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:09 pm Can't understand Daly's omission after his run of form for Sarries. Even if Jones does not want him in the starting XV, he can cover several positions off the bench, still has gas, a big left boot and is a very good long range goal kicker too.
May is lucky to be there with no demonstrated form this season (same as Watson), and I doubt that Nowell or Cockanasiga are ever going to hit the heights as really outstanding international wings, especially Nowell who has had umpteen opportunities by now.

yep. The wing selection has kinda gone a bit uncommented on- but big Joe was dropped in Oz, Nowell does a job- just not a wingers, May looks like age is catching up on him. Shame Freeman is crocked again- he really needs to get on top of his fitness somehow. Hopefully Arundell will get a lot of game time. I guess malins, despite my misgivings Eddie!, is in the frame again. Really missing a trick by not deploying Daly on the wing imo.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:57 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:51 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:39 pm

His defence has been rank every time I have seen him. Extremely lucky.
Coles was absolutely outstanding v Wasps. You clearly didnt see that one. Great lineout and engine, still raw at 6 tbf
Agreed on the rest. Outside backs, in fact all the backs selection is ....a bit weird.

Only saw the end of the Saints Vs Wasps game so may have missed Coles making a mark in that one.

Porter's defence, well maybe you've only watched him in the summer and Vs Saints, where his stats were bad but generally his performance wasn't.

That's about right, but his defence was very poor in all the games I saw him in (and surely the summer was enough to tell us and eddie that he wasn't ready), Saints included. He was right in front of me, and he frankly doesn't seem to know what he is doing at 13 in defence. Even if he was defending well, he's not close to those he is ahead of in Eddie's eyes. He's not a bad player, but I'm not really sure what he brings yet, other than maybe a bit of aussie twang

(Yeah, you missed his two tries, 62m made and 19 tackles plus a load of lineout ball)

Quite a performance. We'll see he can be the understudy to Laws that Eddie wants.

Porter didn't struggle much last season alongside Kelly. I'm also likely to cut him some slack after he made that try saver in the semi final which really shut up a particular chopsy Saints fan I was stood next to. Given he's a recent convert to centre there's definitely some improvements to be found in his positioning. As I've already said, I'd have taken Lawrence in the squad personally. Reward form and don't select someone who's got concussion.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:47 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:57 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:51 pm

Only saw the end of the Saints Vs Wasps game so may have missed Coles making a mark in that one.

Porter's defence, well maybe you've only watched him in the summer and Vs Saints, where his stats were bad but generally his performance wasn't.

That's about right, but his defence was very poor in all the games I saw him in (and surely the summer was enough to tell us and eddie that he wasn't ready), Saints included. He was right in front of me, and he frankly doesn't seem to know what he is doing at 13 in defence. Even if he was defending well, he's not close to those he is ahead of in Eddie's eyes. He's not a bad player, but I'm not really sure what he brings yet, other than maybe a bit of aussie twang

(Yeah, you missed his two tries, 62m made and 19 tackles plus a load of lineout ball)

Quite a performance. We'll see he can be the understudy to Laws that Eddie wants.

Porter didn't struggle much last season alongside Kelly. I'm also likely to cut him some slack after he made that try saver in the semi final which really shut up a particular chopsy Saints fan I was stood next to. Given he's a recent convert to centre there's definitely some improvements to be found in his positioning. As I've already said, I'd have taken Lawrence in the squad personally. Reward form and don't select someone who's got concussion.

I'm not sure personally, he's very raw still at 6. But he's a top lad and my wife taught him so I'll cut him a lot of slack

Porter was clearly out of his depth in Oz, but in fairness our backs defensive system was shocking as well, with Faz pretty culpable too; but he was really poor in defence v Saints (the stats were kind if anything). I did think he'd played quite a bit in midfield in Oz, and I'm surprised that Gopperth couldn't talk him through defending a bit better- most of defence at that level is the system, and communication, with the basics of how you shape in defence. TBH, on the 'not struggling much outside Kelly bit', I think in general Tigers have been worked out a bit- sort of second season Borthwick syndrome.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:22 am Props - I assume thats it for Marler? 4 LH's is one too many though i am very pleased Val R-R finally gets some recognition. Only 2 TH's. Schickerling seemingly doesnt qualify which begs the question, how the hell wasnt it properly checked out before he was called into the squad? If something happens to Sink or Heyes who comes in?
Hooker - Boy are we light here. LCD is fair enough, then we have an uncapped yet deserving McGuigan and the exceptionally ordinary Singleton.

If there's a tighthead injury, then it surely has to be a call for Cole. Not exactly a forward thinking call, but I can't see the value in calling up Hill or Williams who won't ever make the grade and don't have the depth of experience that Cole has.

At hooker? Gods only knows. Blamire? Maybe? I am a fan of Oghre, but he's got so much more development before he's credibly international level.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:01 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:22 am Props - I assume thats it for Marler? 4 LH's is one too many though i am very pleased Val R-R finally gets some recognition. Only 2 TH's. Schickerling seemingly doesnt qualify which begs the question, how the hell wasnt it properly checked out before he was called into the squad? If something happens to Sink or Heyes who comes in?
Hooker - Boy are we light here. LCD is fair enough, then we have an uncapped yet deserving McGuigan and the exceptionally ordinary Singleton.

If there's a tighthead injury, then it surely has to be a call for Cole. Not exactly a forward thinking call, but I can't see the value in calling up Hill or Williams who won't ever make the grade and don't have the depth of experience that Cole has.

At hooker? Gods only knows. Blamire? Maybe? I am a fan of Oghre, but he's got so much more development before he's credibly international level.

Puja

Very much forward thinking.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:01 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:22 am Props - I assume thats it for Marler? 4 LH's is one too many though i am very pleased Val R-R finally gets some recognition. Only 2 TH's. Schickerling seemingly doesnt qualify which begs the question, how the hell wasnt it properly checked out before he was called into the squad? If something happens to Sink or Heyes who comes in?
Hooker - Boy are we light here. LCD is fair enough, then we have an uncapped yet deserving McGuigan and the exceptionally ordinary Singleton.

If there's a tighthead injury, then it surely has to be a call for Cole. Not exactly a forward thinking call, but I can't see the value in calling up Hill or Williams who won't ever make the grade and don't have the depth of experience that Cole has.

At hooker? Gods only knows. Blamire? Maybe? I am a fan of Oghre, but he's got so much more development before he's credibly international level.

Puja

100% agree. He’s in great form and in the circumstances, he’s clearly the best available option.

Re. the hookers, Blamire is the obvious choice, probably followed by Langdon. I have no idea what Walker’s injury situation is?

I say this every time he gets a sniff, but I really hope McGuigan gets a chance. I’d back him to take it.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:57 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:47 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:57 pm

That's about right, but his defence was very poor in all the games I saw him in (and surely the summer was enough to tell us and eddie that he wasn't ready), Saints included. He was right in front of me, and he frankly doesn't seem to know what he is doing at 13 in defence. Even if he was defending well, he's not close to those he is ahead of in Eddie's eyes. He's not a bad player, but I'm not really sure what he brings yet, other than maybe a bit of aussie twang

(Yeah, you missed his two tries, 62m made and 19 tackles plus a load of lineout ball)

Quite a performance. We'll see he can be the understudy to Laws that Eddie wants.

Porter didn't struggle much last season alongside Kelly. I'm also likely to cut him some slack after he made that try saver in the semi final which really shut up a particular chopsy Saints fan I was stood next to. Given he's a recent convert to centre there's definitely some improvements to be found in his positioning. As I've already said, I'd have taken Lawrence in the squad personally. Reward form and don't select someone who's got concussion.

I'm not sure personally, he's very raw still at 6. But he's a top lad and my wife taught him so I'll cut him a lot of slack

Porter was clearly out of his depth in Oz, but in fairness our backs defensive system was shocking as well, with Faz pretty culpable too; but he was really poor in defence v Saints (the stats were kind if anything). I did think he'd played quite a bit in midfield in Oz, and I'm surprised that Gopperth couldn't talk him through defending a bit better- most of defence at that level is the system, and communication, with the basics of how you shape in defence. TBH, on the 'not struggling much outside Kelly bit', I think in general Tigers have been worked out a bit- sort of second season Borthwick syndrome.

Gopperth hasn't really worked out as a defensive leader. We've looked better defensively in the two games he hasn't started.

Borthwick has already done two and a half seasons. This is his third.

I think Kelly is a huge miss. He was the glue in Tigers midfield for the big unbeaten run. At the Sale game he told a supporter he was two games away so hopefully he's back soon. If he refinds his form he could make the 6N squad.