RugbyRebels

So what qualifies as a successful autumn campaign?

Before the All Blacks game I would have said 3 wins and a competitive game against the All Blacks. The last one is now blown out of the water.

We beat Argentina; a credible win against top flight opposition.
If we don't take anything for granted, I hope that we can win conformably against Georgia (noting they aren't pushovers but they are a second tier side).
A win against Australia (again nothing taken for granted and they will be hurting after that Italian loss, but they have some issues).

Would that be seen as successful or does the nature of the AB loss overshadow everything?

Based purely on results then we need two more wins. While it shouldn't obscure the failings against the AB's it would be a good boost to the team after that heavy defeat. It's not a vintage aussie side, but then we've thrown it away against less than vintage aussie sides before. In fact the Aussies remind me if Wales in as much as they can challenge anyone on their day, but can lose to anyone too if they dont perform. It could be a very nervous, scrappy game! You'd have to fancy Wales against Georgia a defeat would probably finish pivac off.

Outside of pure results, I'd like to see some sort of coherent plan or philosophy in the way Wales play too. In another thread we spoke about Wales' usp, so an indication that a plan's coming together would calm a few nerves ahead of next year's RWC. It would help calm mine at least!

Winning three counts as successful to me. We rarely did as well under Gatland.

Painful as it was, the NZ match doesn't destroy the series.

Even winning two would be pretty average historically - but I would consider it a poor return at this point given that we have Georgia and a poor* Australia left.


* by their standards

Agreed re 3 wins. They should stop playing New Zealand first up as that’s twice on the bounce they have given Wales a proper thumping. It gets the autumn off to a horrible start and puts huge pressure on the second game.

You make a good point re the Gatland era. Wales were often rubbish in the autumn during his time, too.

Wallpaperman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:21 pm Agreed re 3 wins. They should stop playing New Zealand first up as that’s twice on the bounce they have given Wales a proper thumping. It gets the autumn off to a horrible start and puts huge pressure on the second game.

You make a good point re the Gatland era. Wales were often rubbish in the autumn during his time, too.

That’s true. One win from four not uncommon and then we would play better in the 6N. And the first game is always a horror show.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:49 pm
That’s true. One win from four not uncommon and then we would play better in the 6N. And the first game is always a horror show.

Remember 2012-13?

6N title - 8 consecutive defeats - 6N title.

Bloody ridiculous!

Wallpaperman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:21 pm Agreed re 3 wins. They should stop playing New Zealand first up as that’s twice on the bounce they have given Wales a proper thumping. It gets the autumn off to a horrible start and puts huge pressure on the second game.

You make a good point re the Gatland era. Wales were often rubbish in the autumn during his time, too.

Why the heck don’t we play the out of window game first up against a second tier side. It would be an opportunity for young and Wales based players to shine and give a good runout for established players to get up to speed before playing the big boys.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:09 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:49 pm
That’s true. One win from four not uncommon and then we would play better in the 6N. And the first game is always a horror show.

Remember 2012-13?

6N title - 8 consecutive defeats - 6N title.

Bloody ridiculous!

Indeed I do. Under Gatland we were always better in the 6N and RWC. Anything else could be emotional.

normanski wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:54 pm
Why the heck don’t we play the out of window game first up against a second tier side. It would be an opportunity for young and Wales based players to shine and give a good runout for established players to get up to speed before playing the big boys.

I have often thought this, but there are other factors at play.

We used to be keen to fit in an extra game compared to other countries. I think this was the right approach. Because of the smaller size of player and spectator pools we rely more on internationals for money and squad development. I have accepted for years that we will not be consistent winners in Autumn internationals. For me, a good autumn would involve not being rubbish in more than one game, winning at least one game, and ending up with a better squad. This is a low bar, but it makes me very relaxed watching the autumn games.

.

Postitives
2 more wins
A new option at 15
although not fully firing a centre partnership that seems to be working
Settling on a 9
Acknowledging Jac Morgan
Some more depth at second row
Ken Owens return

Negatives
Loose head selection still bemuses me, both lack of Carre and then lack of selecting Smith
Back Row balance, we need a Moriaty, Navidi, Botham, maybe Christ is the answer but we havent seen him
Outside half - not convinced by any of our options tbh
Pivac - Ive heard some crazy stuff about him from good sources

I'll have a go at positives and negatives.

Positives:
LRZ does look like a good 15 option.
North looks better settled at centre
Rowlands looking even better, when fit.
Good range of 9s.
Priestland showing superb tactical awareness.
Ken Owens has come back very strong.
Rio Dyer is international standard.
Dillon Lewis has improved his scrummaging (he needed to!)
Faletau looking really good.


Negatives:
Beard often good but not consistent enough.
Missing Navidi a lot
Not seeing enough of Christ.
Carre still falling asleep at times.
Missing Wyn Jones and not trying Smith. Loose head prospects are still unclear.
AWJ getting old.
10 - good range of potential but comparisons unclear.
No Johnny Williams
Still completely overthrowing lineouts at times.

.

I guess we can write off another Autumn as a failure.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:54 pm I guess we can write off another Autumn as a failure.

Totally. Even if we beat Australia next weekend which must be unlikely now, this was a huge loss.

Blimey. What a flat performance

How much of an excuse does Provac have for regional performances of late? I agree that none of them are amazing but the lack of game plan apparent must surely sit with him!

Would getting shot of Pivac be seen as a success now?

Ross. S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:56 pm Would getting shot of Pivac be seen as a success now?

As of this moment, I'd take it.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:03 pm

Ross. S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:56 pm Would getting shot of Pivac be seen as a success now?

As of this moment, I'd take it.

Who would want the job ? Gatland is available but I’m not sure he’d fancy it. Probably end up with Phil Davies.

Maybe England will sack Eddie Jones. We can nab him and get the first season boost he seems to bring before looking for someone permanent.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:42 pm Maybe England will sack Eddie Jones. We can nab him and get the first season boost he seems to bring before looking for someone permanent.

He’d be good up until the end of the World Cup. I fancy England for the win today though

Wallpaperman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:43 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:42 pm Maybe England will sack Eddie Jones. We can nab him and get the first season boost he seems to bring before looking for someone permanent.

He’d be good up until the end of the World Cup. I fancy England for the win today though

I do too

Wallpaperman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:38 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:03 pm

Ross. S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:56 pm Would getting shot of Pivac be seen as a success now?

As of this moment, I'd take it.

Who would want the job ? Gatland is available but I’m not sure he’d fancy it. Probably end up with Phil Davies.

Plenty would want the job. Plenty would be good enough for the job. But is there anyone on the intersection of that Venn diagram??

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:29 pm

Wallpaperman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:38 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:03 pm

As of this moment, I'd take it.

Who would want the job ? Gatland is available but I’m not sure he’d fancy it. Probably end up with Phil Davies.

Plenty would want the job. Plenty would be good enough for the job. But is there anyone on the intersection of that Venn diagram??

We’d have to add another circle for who is available. Sadly not many coaches of quality out of contract at the moment.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-25559056

Sounding like Pivac, and probably the rest of the coaching setup, have lost the locker room

Well,it’s not happening with 15 minutes to go. At least we scored tries against the Blacks; England look toothless in the red zone.