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Hinging
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:04 pm
by Oakboy
Let me start by saying I know very little about scrummaging. Within that admission of ignorance, watching scrums that seem to disintegrate randomly, I need help in understanding referees' decisions on hinging. It seems to me that there are loads of instances whereby the opposition prop has lost his legs and effectively applied all his force downwards. How can the poor sod accused of hinging hold the scrum up?
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:22 pm
by Puja
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:04 pm
Let me start by saying I know very little about scrummaging. Within that admission of ignorance, watching scrums that seem to disintegrate randomly, I need help in understanding referees' decisions on hinging. It seems to me that there are loads of instances whereby the opposition prop has lost his legs and effectively applied all his force downwards. How can the poor sod accused of hinging hold the scrum up?
I know a reasonable amount about scrummaging and I absolutely cannot help you. It's one of those things where refs will sometimes give it despite everything looking like the other player has dived to the floor. Spin the wheel of random scrum decisions.
Puja
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:08 am
by padprop
As a loosehead who has been drilled by a few tightheads in my time, hinging is definitely a weapon in a looseheads arsenal when under pressure.
Hinging definitely does happen, but it can be a very blurry line. I used to hinge on tightheads where their nose was a blade of grass away from the turf. Is that a penalty for letting someone fall an extra centimetre or a penalty for the tighthead for not being able to hold his weight?
If a loosehead is dominant they shouldn’t need to hinge as they have the tighthead in a disadvantageous position. I imagine thats why it goes the tightheads way quite often when theres parity, as subconsciously if its a stable scrum where the loosehead isn’t dominating, or may be going backwards, its suggesting to the referee that the looseheads is hinging to prevent a contest.
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:26 am
by fivepointer
Props cheating trying to get an edge. Good luck in knowing with any certainty whats going on. Even those is the know have to guess.
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:39 am
by Oakboy
I've read through Law 19 (The scrum). As far as I can see (mainly for front rows, presumably) it mentions pushing forward as a requirement and, further on, lists offences including: pulling, forcing an opponent UP, intentionally collapsing, intentionally kneeling or falling.
Nowhere, does it say that it as an offence to specifically pull, push or force DOWN. Have I missed something? Can that possibly be right? Help!
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:14 am
by fivepointer
Props should have their shoulders above their hips and push in a straight line. Not sideways, up or down but straight. The law is pretty simple but props cheat to try and get one over their opponent. Nigel Owens was very good reffing scrums, insisting on the props staying up and pushing straight.
The only person on tv comms who shines a knowledgable light on scrums is David Flatman. Even he sometimes has to take a guess at whats gone on.
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:04 pm
by Which Tyler
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:39 am
I've read through Law 19 (The scrum). As far as I can see (mainly for front rows, presumably) it mentions pushing forward as a requirement and, further on, lists offences including:
pulling, forcing an opponent UP, intentionally
collapsing, intentionally kneeling or falling.
Nowhere, does it say that it as an offence to specifically
pull, push or force
DOWN. Have I missed something? Can that possibly be right? Help!
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:19 pm
by Oakboy
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:04 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:39 am
I've read through Law 19 (The scrum). As far as I can see (mainly for front rows, presumably) it mentions pushing forward as a requirement and, further on, lists offences including:
pulling, forcing an opponent UP, intentionally
collapsing, intentionally kneeling or falling.
Nowhere, does it say that it as an offence to specifically
pull, push or force
DOWN. Have I missed something? Can that possibly be right? Help!
As I read the law, pulling means towards your own posts. Collapsing could involve pulling down but applying a vertical down force is not specified as an offence.
Re: Hinging
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:47 pm
by Mikey Brown
Another part I’ve never understood if there is some priority to the offences. If both tightheads (for example) are committing the same offence on both sides is it just a 50/50 on where the ref is standing?