RugbyRebels

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:49 am**

We may as well go full hog with the youngers now

LRZ, Dyer, Tomkins, Hawkins, Grady, Williams, Hardy
Carre, Roberts, Lewis, R Davies, Jenkins, Tshiunza, Reffel, Faletau

B: Owens, Thomas, Brown, T Williams, Wainwright, Williams, Patchell, K Williams

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:00 pm**

People are talking about Italy being a must win game. I disagree. Wooden spoon means nothing and frankly putting out our theoretical strongest team means nothing. If we win by boring the crap out of the opposition then we lose the opportunity for younger players to get experience. We need to
Improve and we won’t by doing the same stuff over and over. Go for broke and go for youth. Who knows maybe a game of rugby will break out.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:23 pm**

I’d actually bring in some other players but know this is unlikely

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:23 pm**

I’d actually bring in some other players but know this is unlikely

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm**

I'd hope Gatland picks what he thinks is his strongest team, to play the game plan he wants them to play and spend the next fortnight trying to iron out the soft errors that keep on occurring. We need to start winning, as i''m not sure losing every week is good for anyone's development. Look at England- the might have had two fairly uninspiring wins, but they won nonetheless and that's taken some of the pressure off. Wales need something to cling to at the moment.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:21 pm**

This isn't strictly a must-win because Gatland will take us to the world cup no matter what happens in the 6N.

However, I think Gatland will treat it as such because nothing will say 'worse than Pivac' louder than losing to Italy. So I expect him to put out the team he thinks has the best chance of winning. If he sneaks a win here he can experiment more in the France game (since we're pretty much certain to lose than anyway).

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:06 pm**

I can't remember a game where we didn't look better when Hardy came on. Tomos needs a mojo transplant.

Otherwise I agree; there's no serious difference between "lost to everyone" and "lost to everyone except Italy", and hardly any of the "old guard" are pulling their weight anyway.

Speaking of which; one of the saddest sights yesterday IMO was the bemused look on AWJ's face as his younger teammates enthusiastically celebrated his turnover. It was like watching a dementia patient being congratulated for not missing the bowl.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:23 pm**

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:06 pm like watching a dementia patient being congratulated for not missing the bowl.

I congratulated myself for that after I got back from the pub last night.

Little victories, as they say....

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:20 pm**

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:23 pm
Sourdust wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:06 pm like watching a dementia patient being congratulated for not missing the bowl.
I congratulated myself for that after I got back from the pub last night.

Little victories, as they say....

I’ve found that not confusing the bedside cabinet with the toilet is a win these days after a couple of beers

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:56 pm**

My team for Italy:

Thomas
Owens
Francis
Beard
Jenkins
Tshiunza
Tipuric
Faletau
Webb
Owen Williams
Liam Williams
Keiran Williams
North
LRZ
Halfpenny

Bench: Wyn Jones, Lewis, Baldwin, Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Patchell, Tompkins

Let's see if we can do without AWJ. Can't do without Tips' tacking though and might need his all-round genius. Morgan is more well-rounded than Reffell, so he gets the bench spot. I'd start Ospreys at half backs and centres, in a desperate bid for coherence. We need to give Keiran Williams a chance to reproduce his club form. North, because he's class and we we need more experience in the centre pairing. Liam comes back because he's spontaneous. Halfpenny was super-solid so keeps his place.

I don't think Gatland will make many of these calls and anyway, selection is pretty irrelevant if he doesn't get his shit together soon.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:14 pm**

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:56 pm My team for Italy:

Thomas
Owens
Francis
Beard
Jenkins
Tshiunza
Tipuric
Faletau
Webb
Owen Williams
Liam Williams
Keiran Williams
North
LRZ
Halfpenny

Bench: Wyn Jones, Lewis, Baldwin, Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Patchell, Tompkins

Let's see if we can do without AWJ. Can't do without Tips' tacking though and might need his all-round genius. Morgan is more well-rounded than Reffell, so he gets the bench spot. I'd start Ospreys at half backs and centres, in a desperate bid for coherence. We need to give Keiran Williams a chance to reproduce his club form. North, because he's class and we we need more experience in the centre pairing. Liam comes back because he's spontaneous. Halfpenny was super-solid so keeps his place.

I don't think Gatland will make many of these calls and anyway, selection is pretty irrelevant if he doesn't get his shit together soon.

Why have North out there breaking down every other ruck and adding to his injuries- which I fear will be horrendous

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:23 pm**

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:14 pm Why have North out there breaking down every other ruck and adding to his injuries- which I fear will be horrendous

Same applies for Halfpenny I guess, but I'm assuming if they make themselves available then they're up for it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:14 am**

From the outside looking in, you've gone too far with the old guard. It's okay when they are still your best players but surely you have someone who can offer more running from the back than Halfpenny (even LRZ or Adams). Same for AWJ and energy. I'd say the same about Tips too - he still offers quite a lot but is just a step down from what he was and you have options there. A young 7 who can win turnovers will make more difference for you right now than his ball skills.

Thought your young centres looked okay but I'd have Tompkins in there somewhere. If Hawkins is leaving, maybe put Tompkins in at 12.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:48 am**

Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:14 am From the outside looking in, you've gone too far with the old guard. It's okay when they are still your best players but surely you have someone who can offer more running from the back than Halfpenny (even LRZ or Adams). Same for AWJ and energy. I'd say the same about Tips too - he still offers quite a lot but is just a step down from what he was and you have options there. A young 7 who can win turnovers will make more difference for you right now than his ball skills.

Thought your young centres looked okay but I'd have Tompkins in there somewhere. If Hawkins is leaving, maybe put Tompkins in at 12.

Tips topped the tackle stats - 17 made, 0 missed. He's too good to drop at present, when the team is still in transition. If the back row needs a shake up, then drop someone else, not the best player.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:20 am**

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:56 pm My team for Italy:

Thomas
Owens
Francis
Beard
Jenkins
Tshiunza
Tipuric
Faletau
Webb
Owen Williams
Liam Williams
Keiran Williams
North
LRZ
Halfpenny

Bench: Wyn Jones, Lewis, Baldwin, Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Patchell, Tompkins

Let's see if we can do without AWJ. Can't do without Tips' tacking though and might need his all-round genius. Morgan is more well-rounded than Reffell, so he gets the bench spot. I'd start Ospreys at half backs and centres, in a desperate bid for coherence. We need to give Keiran Williams a chance to reproduce his club form. North, because he's class and we we need more experience in the centre pairing. Liam comes back because he's spontaneous. Halfpenny was super-solid so keeps his place.

I don't think Gatland will make many of these calls and anyway, selection is pretty irrelevant if he doesn't get his shit together soon.

mate.... North ffs..... Why?

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:24 am**

Was at stadium Saturday.
In my humble opinion the one's in the pack who performed were Talupe, Christ, AWJ, Beard, ... backs were poor but then that was the tactics to a degree. Half backs and Halfpenny particularly poor.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:28 am**

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:24 am Was at stadium Saturday.
In my humble opinion the one's in the pack who performed were Talupe, Christ, AWJ, Beard, ... backs were poor but then that was the tactics to a degree. Half backs and Halfpenny particularly poor.

Halfpenny did what he was brought into do. He dealt with most of the bombs sent his way, an their kicking game was far better than ours. I wasn't expecting him to do much else except kick goals, which he also did.

Going forward we need a new full back for sure as Liam seems a shadow of his former self.

Tomos Williams was disappointing and Hardy whilst more urgent, well I think we will all have nightmares about that bloody awful pass of his that led to an England try. Williams seemed inconsequential and Biggar was Biggar when he came on. Did we have those 2 the wrong way around - if your tactics are to kick and defend them pick Biggar. He's quite good at that.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:36 am**

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:28 am
Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:24 am Was at stadium Saturday.
In my humble opinion the one's in the pack who performed were Talupe, Christ, AWJ, Beard, ... backs were poor but then that was the tactics to a degree. Half backs and Halfpenny particularly poor.
Halfpenny did what he was brought into do. He dealt with most of the bombs sent his way, an their kicking game was far better than ours. I wasn't expecting him to do much else except kick goals, which he also did.

Going forward we need a new full back for sure as Liam seems a shadow of his former self.

Tomos Williams was disappointing and Hardy whilst more urgent, well I think we will all have nightmares about that bloody awful pass of his that led to an England try. Williams seemed inconsequential and Biggar was Biggar when he came on. Did we have those 2 the wrong way around - if your tactics are to kick and defend them pick Biggar. He's quite good at that.

apart from the one he dropped......

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:38 am**

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:36 am
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:28 am
Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:24 am Was at stadium Saturday.
In my humble opinion the one's in the pack who performed were Talupe, Christ, AWJ, Beard, ... backs were poor but then that was the tactics to a degree. Half backs and Halfpenny particularly poor.
Halfpenny did what he was brought into do. He dealt with most of the bombs sent his way, an their kicking game was far better than ours. I wasn't expecting him to do much else except kick goals, which he also did.

Going forward we need a new full back for sure as Liam seems a shadow of his former self.

Tomos Williams was disappointing and Hardy whilst more urgent, well I think we will all have nightmares about that bloody awful pass of his that led to an England try. Williams seemed inconsequential and Biggar was Biggar when he came on. Did we have those 2 the wrong way around - if your tactics are to kick and defend them pick Biggar. He's quite good at that.

apart from the one he dropped......

He took a load that were under real pressure so I do forgive him that one.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:05 am**

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:48 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:14 am From the outside looking in, you've gone too far with the old guard. It's okay when they are still your best players but surely you have someone who can offer more running from the back than Halfpenny (even LRZ or Adams). Same for AWJ and energy. I'd say the same about Tips too - he still offers quite a lot but is just a step down from what he was and you have options there. A young 7 who can win turnovers will make more difference for you right now than his ball skills.

Thought your young centres looked okay but I'd have Tompkins in there somewhere. If Hawkins is leaving, maybe put Tompkins in at 12.
Tips topped the tackle stats - 17 made, 0 missed. He's too good to drop at present, when the team is still in transition. If the back row needs a shake up, then drop someone else, not the best player.

Faletau was clearly our best backrower on Saturday, I would prefer the 7 to be the one ready to jackal rather than the one putting in the tackle, also have you considered he may have made so many tackles as England thought him a soft target for easy yards? He never makes a dominant tackle, Reffell should be our starting 7 imo, he's more physical and he's much better at the breakdown.

We need Ball back to make some hard yards asap, especially after losing Rowlands.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:25 am**

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:05 am
Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:48 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:14 am From the outside looking in, you've gone too far with the old guard. It's okay when they are still your best players but surely you have someone who can offer more running from the back than Halfpenny (even LRZ or Adams). Same for AWJ and energy. I'd say the same about Tips too - he still offers quite a lot but is just a step down from what he was and you have options there. A young 7 who can win turnovers will make more difference for you right now than his ball skills.

Thought your young centres looked okay but I'd have Tompkins in there somewhere. If Hawkins is leaving, maybe put Tompkins in at 12.
Tips topped the tackle stats - 17 made, 0 missed. He's too good to drop at present, when the team is still in transition. If the back row needs a shake up, then drop someone else, not the best player.
Faletau was clearly our best backrower on Saturday, I would prefer the 7 to be the one ready to jackal rather than the one putting in the tackle, also have you considered he may have made so many tackles as England thought him a soft target for easy yards? He never makes a dominant tackle, Reffell should be our starting 7 imo, he's more physical and he's much better at the breakdown.

We need Ball back to make some hard yards asap, especially after losing Rowlands.

Not sure about that. According to the stats Tips is joint 3rd of all players in the 6N so far for dominant tackles, at 5. And that's despite only playing 134 minutes (out of a possible 240). Also has 1 turnover in that time. By contrast Reffell in 123 minutes has 0 turnovers and 1 dominant tackle.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:15 pm**

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:20 am mate.... North ffs..... Why?

Fair question. Not really from anything we've seen this championship. I must be going on Ospreys form, huge experience and a bit of faith. The sensible alternative would probably be Tompkins, whose work rate was immense when he came on.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:20 pm**

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:25 am
Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:05 am
Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:48 am

Tips topped the tackle stats - 17 made, 0 missed. He's too good to drop at present, when the team is still in transition. If the back row needs a shake up, then drop someone else, not the best player.
Faletau was clearly our best backrower on Saturday, I would prefer the 7 to be the one ready to jackal rather than the one putting in the tackle, also have you considered he may have made so many tackles as England thought him a soft target for easy yards? He never makes a dominant tackle, Reffell should be our starting 7 imo, he's more physical and he's much better at the breakdown.

We need Ball back to make some hard yards asap, especially after losing Rowlands.
Not sure about that. According to the stats Tips is joint 3rd of all players in the 6N so far for dominant tackles, at 5. And that's despite only playing 134 minutes (out of a possible 240). Also has 1 turnover in that time. By contrast Reffell in 123 minutes has 0 turnovers and 1 dominant tackle.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/

The 7 shouldn't be doing all the tackling, the 7 should be ready to contest the tackle area after the tackle is made.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:08 pm**

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:20 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:25 am
Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:05 am

Faletau was clearly our best backrower on Saturday, I would prefer the 7 to be the one ready to jackal rather than the one putting in the tackle, also have you considered he may have made so many tackles as England thought him a soft target for easy yards? He never makes a dominant tackle, Reffell should be our starting 7 imo, he's more physical and he's much better at the breakdown.

We need Ball back to make some hard yards asap, especially after losing Rowlands.
Not sure about that. According to the stats Tips is joint 3rd of all players in the 6N so far for dominant tackles, at 5. And that's despite only playing 134 minutes (out of a possible 240). Also has 1 turnover in that time. By contrast Reffell in 123 minutes has 0 turnovers and 1 dominant tackle.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/
The 7 shouldn't be doing all the tackling, the 7 should be ready to contest the tackle area after the tackle is made.

Maybe, although I guess that's down to the defence strategy. Perhaps Leicester's is different, allowing Reffell to do his thing. Which may explain why Reffell isn't doing his thing for Wales (or at least 2023 Wales). But if that's the case we're not likely to get as many turnovers as Leicester no matter who is at 7.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:07 pm**

MrK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:49 am We may as well go full hog with the youngers now

LRZ, Dyer, Tomkins, Hawkins, Grady, Williams, Hardy
Carre, Roberts, Lewis, R Davies, Jenkins, Tshiunza, Reffel, Faletau

B: Owens, Thomas, Brown, T Williams, Wainwright, Williams, Patchell, K Williams

Suicidal against an in form ITALY.got to have experience Here's my attempt as i think he needs to go outside squad

Williams
LRZ
Tompkins
Hawkins
Grady
10 is a massive problem...Prob Biggar gun to head
Hardy
Faletau
Reffell
Moriarty
AW Jones
Tshunza
Lewis (Is a problem position)
Owens (no alternatives)
Carre

Smith Baldwin Francis Beard Morgan..... Forwards cover
Back cover not a clue......

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