Sam Simmonds and Ben Earl

[jngf]

Sam Simmonds and Ben Earl both seem to me that they could bring a lot to the party regarding their USP of demonstrable pace. However,

(I) In Ludlam, Willis and Dombrandt we’ve at last got the makings of a truly Lions class backrow and I wouldn’t want that broken up other than through injury.

(Ii) If Simmonds (or Earl) was picked to start at 8 (admittedly more likely for former than latter then the case for a lock sized 6 e.g. Lawes might be more tempting for selectors though I think Ludlam and Willis would cover the 3’rd lineout jumper satisfactorily without needing that (currently we have a lineout with 5 credible jumpers)


(Iii) Where might the Curry brothers fit in now, accepting they have a vast difference in test experience and slightly different styles?

I still wonder whether one of them (Simmonds and Earl that is) could be converted to 12 at test level given ongoing issues there and given Farrell plays like an ersatz flanker at 12 why not go one step further? (Only half joking btw)

[Epaminondas Pules]

Sam Simmonds and Ben Earl both seem to me that they could bring a lot to the party regarding their USP of demonstrable pace. However,

(I) In Ludlam, Willis and Dombrandt we’ve at last got the makings of a truly Lions class backrow and I wouldn’t want that broken up other than through injury.

(Ii) If Simmonds (or Earl) was picked to start at 8 (admittedly more likely for former than latter then the case for a lock sized 6 e.g. Lawes might be more tempting for selectors though I think Ludlam and Willis would cover the 3’rd lineout jumper satisfactorily without needing that (currently we have a lineout with 5 credible jumpers)


(Iii) Where might the Curry brothers fit in now, accepting they have a vast difference in test experience and slightly different styles?

I still wonder whether one of them (Simmonds and Earl that is) could be converted to 12 at test level given ongoing issues there and given Farrell plays like an ersatz flanker at 12 why not go one step further? (Only half joking btw)

Lions class? Really? I'm far from convinced at 8

I think Curry (T) walks back in. With one of the flankers dropping down. Unless Ludlam goes to 8 possibly.

All of the backrow options are lineout options for their clubs. Earl the least, but they are all put in the air.

[Mikey Brown]

Somehow I knew exactly what the contents of this thread would be, yet I'm still completely baffled by it?

If pace was the only thing separating those two players then sure, but there are a dozen other attributes to consider.

I like Dombrandt almost as much as EP hates him, and I still think he's got a lot to prove at this level. Ben Curry too. Both have limited time to do so before Lawes, Tom Curry (and possibly Billy/Willis/Mercer) come in to the mix.

I'd happily have seen Earl of Simmonds convert to 12 if it happened 7 or 8 years. Neither of them have literally any reason at all to do so now.

[Mellsblue]

Just won £10 off myself for guessing who started this thread before opening it.

[ilovelamp]

Zach Mercer coming back to fill an absolutely massive gap at no 8 next season? Dombrandt has been far from impressive and seems to lack that little something to make it at the very top.

[Tom Moore]

I think the Wales game was the best I've seen Dombrandt have. However, if Tom Curry is available, I'm picking him straight away and moving Ludlam to 8, because he (Curry) is proven world class

[Beasties]

[16th man]

The addiction to trying to shoe horn players into positions they generally don't play is one of the weirdest parts of this forum.

You'd have thought the outcome of Eddie shifting Curry to 8, and Simmonds being fairly meh when picked as a flanker might have damped it down for a bit.

[Stom]

I think if someone misses out, it's Ludlam, much as he's been excellent. Willis, Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer with Ludlam on the bench. Perfect.

[Banquo]

I think if someone misses out, it's Ludlam, much as he's been excellent. Willis, Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer with Ludlam on the bench. Perfect.

I would think Mercer would somehow have to prove his intl credentials first, and Dombrandt nail his spot too.

[Banquo]

The addiction to trying to shoe horn players into positions they generally don't play is one of the weirdest parts of this forum.

You'd have thought the outcome of Eddie shifting Curry to 8, and Simmonds being fairly meh when picked as a flanker might have damped it down for a bit.

Whilst I agree generally, Ludlam has played 8 for Saints with some success. But if Dombrandt continues his upward curve, it won’t be a question and a very good flanker will be benched.
Also interesting where Lawes fits into all this- it maybe that Sludge Candlestick thinks he’s a lock.

[TheNomad]

My views on this thread

- Earl is a useful player to have in the squad, but I'd be really surprised if he ever established himself as a starter. Same goes for Simmonds
- Ludlam is great, but unlikely Lions quality
- Curry obviously is. I suspect could be too
- I'm less confident in Dombrandt, than I am Ludlam. Good player, with a shout at becoming an England regular, but...
- Whether it's a genuine 8 who surplants him - the likes of Mercer, maybe in time, Cunningham-South or Fisilau; or
- Whether we have a bigger 6 (Lawes, Hill, Martin etc) and play one of Curry or Willis lining up at 8
- ....so I'd be surprised if he stayed the course personally

[Stom]

I think if someone misses out, it's Ludlam, much as he's been excellent. Willis, Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer with Ludlam on the bench. Perfect.

I would think Mercer would somehow have to prove his intl credentials first, and Dombrandt nail his spot too.

Well indeed. So Dombrandt nails his spot and we don't need the /... or he doesn't, and we try Mercer.

And if he doesn't, we can try TWillis, even.

I feel Willis and Curry would work really nicely together.

[Banquo]

I think if someone misses out, it's Ludlam, much as he's been excellent. Willis, Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer with Ludlam on the bench. Perfect.

I would think Mercer would somehow have to prove his intl credentials first, and Dombrandt nail his spot too.

Well indeed. So Dombrandt nails his spot and we don't need the /... or he doesn't, and we try Mercer.

And if he doesn't, we can try TWillis, even.

I feel Willis and Curry would work really nicely together.

Yus. But Willis and Ludlam is a great combo now. So it’s unfortunate that Curry T not playing. Dombrandts test is coming up. But no chance to test Mercer.

[jngf]

I would think Mercer would somehow have to prove his intl credentials first, and Dombrandt nail his spot too.

Well indeed. So Dombrandt nails his spot and we don't need the /... or he doesn't, and we try Mercer.

And if he doesn't, we can try TWillis, even.

I feel Willis and Curry would work really nicely together.

Yus. But Willis and Ludlam is a great combo now. So it’s unfortunate that Curry T not playing. Dombrandts test is coming up. But no chance to test Mercer.

Is T Curry a better test 6 than Ludlam ( debatable) is he a better test 7 than Willis - for me no he isn’t . Is T Curry a good glue player interchangeable 6/7 absolutely - somewhere in the middle between Richard Hill and Chris Robshaw

[Scrumhead]

Hold on … I thought you don’t rate Tom Curry?

[p/d]

T Curry walks in. The other two spots are up for grabs.
As it stands we stick with the ‘Lions’ back row right up until Dublin confirms what we thought after the France game.

[morepork]

Drombrant is no Thomas Waldrom.

[jngf]

Hold on … I thought you don’t rate Tom Curry?

I actually do but as I’ve always said he’s a very good all rounder rather than being the best specialist at either 6 or 7. I’ve been pretty consistent on that. I acknowledge that many think he’s Richard Hill’s second coming but I can’t quite see it and he was lukewarm as an openside on Gatland’s less than perfect last Lions outing … For me Underhill edges it over T Curry at 7 ( being best defensive 7 since Winterbottom ) though I think T Curry’s a better linkman. I keep hearing these anecdotes about Curry having exceptional pace but it’s seldom been seen in his play in all honesty so I’m wondering if this is slightly exaggerated?

[Danno]

Stop reading (or at least believing) Stephen Jones' columns.

[jngf]

Stop reading (or at least believing) Stephen Jones' columns.

Harsh