RugbyRebels

So 33 men for the RWC. Last time it was 31 and a 17/14 split.

I'll have a bash at the squad with an 18/15 split based on current form and the expectation those returning from injury will be decent:
Props (2019:3/2023: 6) - Nel, Fagerson, Walker, Schoeman, Sutherland, Bhatti
Hooker (3/3) - Turner, Cherry, Ashman - Cherry is our best line out hooker IMO. Likely to to Brown over Cherry.
2nd Row (4/4) - R.Gray, Gilchrist, Cummings, Skinner (expect J Gray over Skinner though)
Back Row (5/5) - Ritchie (c), Fagerson, Dempsey, Darge, Crosbie/Bayliss. I don't think we need to out and out 7s in the squad and Crosbie, if going 19/14 then Watson would be in and one of Steyn/Smith drop out.

SH (3/3) - White, Price and Horne
FH (2/2) - Russell, Hastings
Centres (4/4) - Tuipulotu, Jones, Redpath, Harris
Back 3 (4/5) - Hogg, Duhan, Graham, Steyn, Smith
Utility (1/1) - Kinghorn

Bolter - young Tuipulotu.

Hard to imagine Jonny Gray not getting in, but hard to say if he deserves it. Only ever seems to look good off the bench now?

How is Walker getting in?

I like Cherry, and thought Brown’s days were done, but GT seems to like him.

I don’t see Bayliss or Crosbie getting in at Watson’s expense but I agree it’s going to be hard to justify Watson’s spot in a 23 if Darge gets back to where he was.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:27 pm Hard to imagine Jonny Gray not getting in, but hard to say if he deserves it. Only ever seems to look good off the bench now?

How is Walker getting in?

I like Cherry, and thought Brown’s days were done, but GT seems to like him.

I don’t see Bayliss or Crosbie getting in at Watson’s expense but I agree it’s going to be hard to justify Watson’s spot in a 23 if Darge gets back to where he was.

I expect Brown, Gray and Watson all to go but when naming the squad it is easy to see how they could miss out. Bayliss offers a versatility that would allow both Dempsey and Fagerson to sit out the Romania game if they need it after SA and Tonga games which I would expect to very physical. 5 back row really isn't a lot if taking two specialist 7s.

Walker or Sebastian would be in because Berghan isn't up to it imo and McCallum hasn't really stated a case ahead of those previously involved.

That's funny, I just came on here to create this thread.

From 2019, I have added another prop and another lock on the basis that Skinner can also fill in in the backrow if needed and we don't have anyone else there really pushing for a place.

Tight head

Fagerson, Nel, Berghan

Hooker

Turner, McInally (a bit of a stretch but funny to think he was captain back then), Brown

Loose head

Schoeman, Sutherland, Bhatti

Second row

Richie Gray, Cummings, Gilchrist, Gray, Skinner

Backrow

Ritchie, Darge, Fagerson, Dempsey, Crosbie

Scrumhalf

White, Horne, Price

Flyhalf

Russell, Kinghorn (covering or starting at 15), Hastings

Centre

Tuipolotu, Jones, Redpath, McDowall

Wing

VDM, Graham, Steyn (covering 13)

Full back

Hogg (we have cover here from Kinghorn and Hastings, if Kinghorn is going to start, maybe take Ollie Smith and leave Jonny Gray behind)

It is hard not to use hindsight given how 2019 turned out but I genuinely think we have more quality in every area other than tight head and hooker (in those areas we have the same players but some of them are arguably past it).

Four warmups seems a lot. I would imagine there will be lots of opportunities for those outside the above lists. Certainly wouldn't want some key players playing more than a couple unless they really need it for fitness, sharpness.

I had thought about starting this thread too.

Think that Skinners ability to cover on the bsvk-row gets him in, especially considering we have SA and Ireland in the group. Watson/Crosbie may be the unlucky ones there. Darge has to go if fit.

Think that Hastings might be in trouble unless he finds some serious form and quickly. Kinghorn probably in pole position to be Russell's babk-up, though Healy has bolter potential.

Injuries will see Steyn/Harris travel but they could be vulnerable. I'd only take one, with the nod to Steyn because of versatility again. I still like Dobie as a bolter if he can firmly wrest the starting jersey from Price/Horne, but understand his form this year hasn't merited it.

switchskier wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:34 pm I had thought about starting this thread too.

Think that Skinners ability to cover on the bsvk-row gets him in, especially considering we have SA and Ireland in the group. Watson/Crosbie may be the unlucky ones there. Darge has to go if fit.

Think that Hastings might be in trouble unless he finds some serious form and quickly. Kinghorn probably in pole position to be Russell's babk-up, though Healy has bolter potential.

Injuries will see Steyn/Harris travel but they could be vulnerable. I'd only take one, with the nod to Steyn because of versatility again. I still like Dobie as a bolter if he can firmly wrest the starting jersey from Price/Horne, but understand his form this year hasn't merited it.

I'm not sure we have the wing options to leave Steyn behind.

On Hastings, he has a wee bit of versatility and has experience in the systems (it wasn't long ago he played a whole 6N campaign). I also think his more attacking style (compared to Healy) works if we are trying to pick up bonus points and maybe even points difference against a Romania, say). If he can find any sort of form, I think he should go. While 2 tens might be enough, not if one of them might be playing a lot in other positions.

Really thought Dobie would be a contender by now, but seems to have stalled a little. Still time though.

Why is the squad announced in late MAY when the tournament isn't until September/October

Cameo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:28 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:34 pm I had thought about starting this thread too.

Think that Skinners ability to cover on the bsvk-row gets him in, especially considering we have SA and Ireland in the group. Watson/Crosbie may be the unlucky ones there. Darge has to go if fit.

Think that Hastings might be in trouble unless he finds some serious form and quickly. Kinghorn probably in pole position to be Russell's babk-up, though Healy has bolter potential.

Injuries will see Steyn/Harris travel but they could be vulnerable. I'd only take one, with the nod to Steyn because of versatility again. I still like Dobie as a bolter if he can firmly wrest the starting jersey from Price/Horne, but understand his form this year hasn't merited it.

I'm not sure we have the wing options to leave Steyn behind.

On Hastings, he has a wee bit of versatility and has experience in the systems (it wasn't long ago he played a whole 6N campaign). I also think his more attacking style (compared to Healy) works if we are trying to pick up bonus points and maybe even points difference against a Romania, say). If he can find any sort of form, I think he should go. While 2 tens might be enough, not if one of them might be playing a lot in other positions.

Really thought Dobie would be a contender by now, but seems to have stalled a little. Still time though.

I think Steyn will go but I could see a situation where the coaches decide that Kinghorn is the 3rd winger as a utility player with Smith covering Hogg and wing.

I do feel like Harris still has some value, even just as a squad player and a good trainer.

I’m glad we gave a Steyn a run but I’m not convinced he’s even a whole lot better than Harris when he gets shoved out to the wing.

I would love for MacInally to make a resurgence. I really, really rated him going in to the last World Cup. No idea if he’s playing consistently at the moment or not.

I think that's a bit harsh on Steyn. It's not by accident that he made some pretty lengthy breaks. Good under a high ball or a cross kick too (thinking of that one Vs France he popped back inside). I might be blinded to anything good that Harris does in attack, but I just don't think he has the instinct for it, wing or centre.

I just don't know in what circumstance (apart from 5 points up with 5 minutes to go, you want Harris on). I'd much prefer Steyn at 13 than Harris on the wing.

I think most of us are on the same page with McInally. He is fit just now but really needs a run.

Cameo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:44 am I think that's a bit harsh on Steyn. It's not by accident that he made some pretty lengthy breaks. Good under a high ball or a cross kick too (thinking of that one Vs France he popped back inside). I might be blinded to anything good that Harris does in attack, but I just don't think he has the instinct for it, wing or centre.

I just don't know in what circumstance (apart from 5 points up with 5 minutes to go, you want Harris on). I'd much prefer Steyn at 13 than Harris on the wing.

Fair enough, it was partially for dramatic effect, but he is a lot more error prone than I had expected. I do think the pendulum has swung a bit too far on Harris, but I'm very glad Huwipo and Redpath appear to have the 12/13/23 shirts currently. I've always been sort of surprised how okay he looks on the wing, I suppose a winger who can't pass (and Steyn did some awful passes) is much more preferable than a centre who can't.

I'm not advocating him there as a serious starting option, more that I'd see no reason to ever take VDM/Graham off and if Kinghorn is occupied with playing 10/15 I can cope with it in an emergency. He does seem to be recognised as a leader of sorts and (even as a training tool) having a world class defender in the squad to learn from and attack against is probably useful.

It's not clear cut thing, but I see both of those as the most under threat for a RWC squad place.

We have to take four "proper" centres to the RWC. It would be madness to do otherwise.

Steyn may be able to provide bench/emergency in game cover at 13 but I am not starting someone who has never started a European game at 13 or a knock out match at 13 since 2019/20 there v Ireland or even Tonga in a RWC. He has only played 20% of his pro games at 13.

If he goes to the RWC then it should be as a back 3 player.

Yes, I was only considering Steyn as 13 cover (i.e. of the bench or maybe against Romania if there are a couple of injuries). The comparison came up because Mikey was comparing the two on the wing.

My four would be the two incumbents Redpath and McDowall ideally but agree Harris is more likely. One bonus of McDowall is that he can happily cover 12 and 13 but appreciate he has never played an international. Big end of the season for him anyway.

I agree McDowall will be a bolter. Would he count as a bolter? He’s playing well.

Can either Redpath or McDowell play FB at a stretch? I seem to remember McDowell doing a stint there?

McDowall has done it before I'm pretty sure. I think we will be okay for fullback cover. From the definites, Hogg, Kinghorn and Graham have played there for Scotland (albeit it wouldn't be ideal for Graham). I'd still say Hastings is a probable and be can do a decent job there.

McDowall.

General Zod wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:43 pm McDowall.

Is this a response to a previous post or a specific thing he did in the match or what?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:55 am

General Zod wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:43 pm McDowall.

Is this a response to a previous post or a specific thing he did in the match or what?

I mis-spelled his surname and my editing skills after a few sherries ain’t great!

General Zod wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:43 pm McDowall.

absolutely.

Centres have to be Tuipolotu, Jones, Redpath, McDowell. Leaves out our first pick for several seasons (Sam Johnson) who is also playing well. And Harris shouldn't even be invited to wave them on to the plane

Has McDowell had any time for Scotland at all? I can’t remember if he got a summer your game or something.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:24 pm Has McDowell had any time for Scotland at all? I can’t remember if he got a summer your game or something.

no. Been called into a couple of wider squads IIRC. Hopefully will be capped in one (at least) of the warm ups