London Irish in Trouble?

[rjjb]

Daily Fail hinting at issue with payment of wages.....

[Puja]

Shotgun Arundell!

You'd like to hope they're not - they seem to have a good setup and crowd at Brentford. However, stories like this could rock the boat enough to sink them - all it takes is a belief that you can't pay your bills and auddenly credit for everyday work becomes very hard to acquire.

Puja

[Danno]

all it takes is a belief that you can't pay your bills and auddenly credit for everyday work becomes very hard to acquire.

Puja

Exactly this. Rumours will do plenty, LI will have more than one supplier on the phone this morning and all of a sudden they've panicked their cashflow out the door to placate people that aren't HMRC...

[Oakboy]

OHC to Leicester per DT. I hadn't heard about that before.

[Beasties]

L Irish were mentioned a few months ago as poss being the next domino after Wasps and Worcs weren’t they?

[FKAS]

L Irish were mentioned a few months ago as poss being the next domino after Wasps and Worcs weren’t they?

Mainly because their owner was open to selling them. That's not unusual for Prem clubs currently though (Bristol and Tigers are also both potentially available).

[Gloskarlos]

Lots of rumour going round between CEO's of a 10 team league sooner rather than later. Newcastle and LI both in the rumour category I would guess.

[FKAS]

Lots of rumour going round between CEO's of a 10 team league sooner rather than later. Newcastle and LI both in the rumour category I would guess.

Despite them not being financial successes they'd both be bad teams to lose what with the LI academy reliably churning out players and Falcons a sole bastion of top level rugby for a large portion of that part of the country. Rugby is well loved up and around the North East as well, they've started to get their academy up and running again in recent seasons as well.

If anything we could do with finding a way to get Doncaster sustainable and in the Prem so top level union has a foothold in Yorkshire again.

[jimKRFC]

Ruck are saying "L.I respond to reports they want voluntary relegation" but can't find reports that L.I want relegation...

[rjjb]

Ruck are saying "L.I respond to reports they want voluntary relegation" but can't find reports that L.I want relegation...

The suggestions of voluntary relegation relate to Newcastle Falcons.

[jimKRFC]

LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

[Margin_Walker]

LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

[Puja]

LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

[FKAS]

LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

At what age are you drafting the players? 16 and then asking them to move up or down the country? 18 when they've been in a club's academy for a couple of years already? 20 when the finish age grade and might be a regular first team player?

[Mellsblue]

Ed Griffiths, ex of Sarries and very briefly Bath, mooted a similar system a few years ago. Iirc, the academies would be based in universities with players sent out on loan to Champ clubs in their final year before being drafted. Prem clubs and RFU all said no thank you.

[Margin_Walker]

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

[Mellsblue]

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

Lam isn’t asking for catchment areas to be changed, at least not from what I’ve read, but that if a player isn’t picked by the club whose area they live in there’s no barriers to another club offering them a contract.

[fivepointer]

Really interesting article. Bristol will always be at a disadvantage given the size of their catchment area.

This i just dont get - “If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?

If a player is deemed surplus to requirements at one club and wants to try his hand at another, then surely he should be able to do so without cost to his new club?

[Puja]

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

The catchment areas are already byzantine - I suspect they probably need complete redrawing from scratch rather than fiddling with. Can't imagine that being a smooth and unacrimonious endeavour though.

Puja

[Puja]

Really interesting article. Bristol will always be at a disadvantage given the size of their catchment area.

This i just dont get - “If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?

If a player is deemed surplus to requirements at one club and wants to try his hand at another, then surely he should be able to do so without cost to his new club?

Define "surplus to requirements" though. I suspect Lam isn't talking about players who have been outright released, but someone who might be second/third choice in their position in their academy year at Quins, but could be first choice at Bristol.

Puj

[Margin_Walker]

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

Lam isn’t asking for catchment areas to be changed, at least not from what I’ve read, but that if a player isn’t picked by the club whose area they live in there’s no barriers to another club offering them a contract.

Yeah, sure. Mentioned in the previous post that it's a reasonable complaint if its the case that it applies to a released player or an 18 year old not offered a senior academy contract by his parent club.

He does complain in that interview about the inequality in catchment areas between Bristol and a team like Quins though. I'm sure if he was offered a slightly enhanced one, he'd take it.

But as Puja says. Even that's very difficult

[fivepointer]

Really interesting article. Bristol will always be at a disadvantage given the size of their catchment area.

This i just dont get - “If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?

If a player is deemed surplus to requirements at one club and wants to try his hand at another, then surely he should be able to do so without cost to his new club?

Define "surplus to requirements" though. I suspect Lam isn't talking about players who have been outright released, but someone who might be second/third choice in their position in their academy year at Quins, but could be first choice at Bristol.

Puj

Let the player decide if he wants to move to another club. But dont penalise the new club and make such an offer an unrealistic burden.

[FKAS]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nextgenxv. ... 2/%3famp=1

I mean Bristol aren't that hard up looking at that table. Clifton is definitely one of theirs does Millfield fall into their catchment area? If so two of the top three.

[Margin_Walker]

Pretty sure Bath have Millfield.

Bristol do rely heavily on Clifton.

Not always that simple though as you'll often have boarders in schools in one catchment, playing for a completely different club academy based on where they are from and played their junior rugby.

[fivepointer]

Millfield does fall into Bath's catchment area.

Bristol do have Filton College along with Clifton.