RugbyRebels

Minus the semi-final team's players this week, but interesting selections:

Forwards Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
, Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
, Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears), Ted Hill (Bath Rugby), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Zach Mercer (Montpellier Hérault Rugby), Beno Obano (Bath Rugby), Tom Pearson (London Irish), Val Rapava-Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears), Will Stuart (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Jack Walker (Harlequins).

Backs Henry Arundell (London Irish), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish), Will Joseph (London Irish), Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Harry Randall (Bristol Bears), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)

Puja

Forwards
Jamie Blamire
Alex Dombrandt
Tom Dunn
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Ted Hill (Bath Rugby)
Joe Marler
Zach Mercer (Montpellier Hérault Rugby)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Tom Pearson (London Irish)
Val Rapava-Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby)
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Sam Underhill
Jack Walker (Harlequins)

Backs
Henry Arundell
Danny Care
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Ollie Hassell-Collins
Will Joseph (London Irish)
Ollie Lawrence
Joe Marchant
Jonny May
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers) and Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs) will also attend the camp to continue their rehabilitation from injury.

Loosehead (4): Genge, Obano, VRR, Marler
Hooker (3): Blamire, Dunn, Walker
Tighthead (2): Stuart, Sinckler
Lock (1): Ewels
Falnkers (3): Hill, Pearson, Underhill
No. 8 (2): Dombrandt, Mercer

Scrumhalf (3): Care, Randall, Spencer
Flyhalf (1): Smith
Centre (4): Joseph, Lawrence, Marchent, Slade
Back three (5): Arundell, Hassell-Collins, Cokanasiga, May, Murley

Weird balance of squad. They're not going to be getting any scrummaging done with just one lock, unless Hill and Dombrandt are going to step in, but we have four looseheads and three hookers. I'm surprised not to see people like Freddie Clarke or Chunya Munga in there - not that I think they'll make the squad, but you'd've thought they'd be useful as bodies to help get something productive done?

Joe Launchbury and LCD are apparently both injured, in case anyone was wondering. Sam Simmonds has apparently withdrawn from contention for the RWC, presumably so he can earn a bonus by turning up at Montpellier early. Anyone else missing that we can see? The reports of Mat Rogerson getting a call-up appear not to have come through. Interestingly, Zach Mercer is straight in, without waiting for the 5 weeks' rest that the English-based players have to have.

Puja

Weird is certainly the word. Tempted by “pointless” but that’s probably too extreme.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:43 am Weird is certainly the word. Tempted by “pointless” but that’s probably too extreme.

Its not far off though and some pretty tired recycling of players.

Glad Hill and VRR are in but a bit disappointed Seb Atkinson not thought worth having a look at.

Odd squad, heavily compromised by those absent with a few players who plainly arent going to the WC unless the stars miraculously align.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:49 am Glad Hill and VRR are in but a bit disappointed Seb Atkinson not thought worth having a look at.

Odd squad, heavily compromised by those absent with a few players who plainly arent going to the WC unless the stars miraculously align.

Oof. I knew there was someone missing, but I couldn't put my finger on it. That's annoying.

Puja

I'd assume this will mainly be pre season style stuff. The squad weren't fit enough for how Borthwick wanted them to play in the 6N so this lot will be at the tender mercies of Aled. Scrum and lineout work will come later. There's some outside choices there so perhaps a chance to Borthwick to have a look at how personalities are in camp.

Agree, real shame there's no Seb Atkinson. Radwan a bit unlucky.

Pleased VRR and Blamire are included.

The weirdest presence is Marler. If he's available and his face fits why was he not there for the 6N? He's still our best LH scrummager.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:21 am The weirdest presence is Marler. If he's available and his face fits why was he not there for the 6N? He's still our best LH scrummager.

Presumably because the 6N came shortly after his latest ban for onfield stupidity.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:34 amInterestingly, Zach Mercer is straight in, without waiting for the 5 weeks' rest that the English-based players have to have.

I am not up with the T14 - has Tom Willis's season finished yet?

Puja

lol, Ben Spencer

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:42 am

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:34 amInterestingly, Zach Mercer is straight in, without waiting for the 5 weeks' rest that the English-based players have to have.

I am not up with the T14 - has Tom Willis's season finished yet?

Puja

Fairly certain he’s with Bordeaux which means it ended on Saturday.

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:02 pmlol, Ben Spencer

As likely to end up in the squad as Randall and Care.

By my count, there’s probably 11 with a decent shout of being in the final squad:

Genge
Sinckler
Stuart
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mercer
Smith
Slade
Lawrence
Arundell

Plus one of the other looseheads (I’d pick Marler, but I’d be happy with Obano or VRR).

Maybe 12 …

I know I’m going to get some heat for saying this, but the more I think about it, I could see May going. He’s had a poor season for sure, but having seen our other inexperienced options failing to really grab the opportunity, I think May at 80% of his peak is probably still better than the alternatives.

I think May might get a shot if he can show some form in cap and the friendlies.

Ted Hill might have a decent shot as well. Going on Borthwick's previous selection criteria for blindside at Tigers Hill would fit the bill.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:30 pm By my count, there’s probably 11 with a decent shout of being in the final squad:

Genge
Sinckler
Stuart
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mercer
Smith
Slade
Lawrence
Arundell

Plus one of the other looseheads (I’d pick Marler, but I’d be happy with Obano or VRR).

Maybe 12 …

I know I’m going to get some heat for saying this, but the more I think about it, I could see May going. He’s had a poor season for sure, but having seen our other inexperienced options failing to really grab the opportunity, I think May at 80% of his peak is probably still better than the alternatives.

I think May's a very good shout - he is very experienced (and probably the best mentor for the youngsters in turning raw talent into a finished product) and, if he is injury-free and can knock the rust off (big if), he's still one of our best wingers.

Puja

I agree he seems to have an fantastic work ethic and was a big presence in EJ’s squads, but is it ‘rust’ at this point? He was incredible as recently as 2020 (‘21?) though so it’s hard to judge.

Somehow Malins is now our only other established wing after Watson, so I can understand the thinking. Murley being amazing at club level for basically 3 years and Freeman looking a good threat in his Aus clearly wasn’t enough to earn them a chance.

I guess failing to get OHC involved in any meaningful way had Borthwick reassessing his approach.

I still really don’t get the Arundell thing. London Irish would start him in a big game on the wing ahead of OHC or Loader, they barely started him in his favoured position anyway. It might pay off I suppose, but felt like a Hail Mary to me.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:42 am

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:34 amInterestingly, Zach Mercer is straight in, without waiting for the 5 weeks' rest that the English-based players have to have.

I am not up with the T14 - has Tom Willis's season finished yet?

Puja

Yes, Bordeaux/Bègles lost their semi against La Rochelle and are now on holiday!

I wouldnt have selected May. He looks shot as a top level player. Plenty of options available with Arundell, Murley, Watson and Freeman on the wings.

Another selection that raised one of my eyebrows was Underhill. Is he really at the level he was and can his fitness be relied upon? Its not as if we're short of alternatives at 7.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:20 pm I wouldnt have selected May. He looks shot as a top level player. Plenty of options available with Arundell, Murley, Watson and Freeman on the wings.

Another selection that raised one of my eyebrows was Underhill. Is he really at the level he was and can his fitness be relied upon? Its not as if we're short of alternatives at 7.

Both fair questions, but this is a good a chance as any to take a closer look. It looks more like an A squad or a half-arsed barbarians/world/invitational side.

Personally I’m hoping that fitness/form permits a place for someone who hits as hard in defence as Underhill/Lawes/Marler/Martin somewhere in the squad. I really had thought Underhill was done at the top level though.

I'd be more comfortable if he retired from professional rugby; but he hasn't, and if fit and available for selection, then he has to go to the RWC IMO.

Not playing rugby is for him, his family, and his doctors; not his coaches.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:35 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:20 pm I wouldnt have selected May. He looks shot as a top level player. Plenty of options available with Arundell, Murley, Watson and Freeman on the wings.

Another selection that raised one of my eyebrows was Underhill. Is he really at the level he was and can his fitness be relied upon? Its not as if we're short of alternatives at 7.

Both fair questions, but this is a good a chance as any to take a closer look. It looks more like an A squad or a half-arsed barbarians/world/invitational side.

Personally I’m hoping that fitness/form permits a place for someone who hits as hard in defence as Underhill/Lawes/Marler/Martin somewhere in the squad. I really had thought Underhill was done at the top level though.

Looking at the players available, and the make up of the group, he's as likely to be there to talk about getting mentally ready for big games in a tournament as he is to be doing any serious contact work.

I loathed Jones, yet supported his initial post-19 decision to dispense with players that had peaked. Subsequently, he changed his mind and recalled most of them.

Now, SB is in a position where he needs to make past-it/worth-retaining decisions on quite a few. Given his late appointment, he has little time to make big calls on young pretenders. For the RWC, to support Steward in the back three, would Malins, Watson, May and Daly not be better guaranteed performers than any of Arundell, Freeman or OHC, based on what is KNOWN about their international ability (rather than guessed at).

I am itching to see loads of players dumped because they cannot collectively lift the team's ceiling but I can fully sympathise with SB saving that till post-RWC. I'd dump now but I can understand SB believing that his credibility with the RFU would not allow it. Maybe, we are QF material at best whatever we do. I'd give new guys that experience ready for the next one.