Great expectations, Saturday?

[normanski]

Gatland seems to have achieved his first objective of getting a Wales team fired up and playing with passion and commitment. We are stronger in defence and are starting to convert attacking play into well constructed tries.

This weekend is going to be a different kettle of fish. England, according to the pundits, are likely to field a near full strength starting side while Gatland may still be experimenting with some of the newer caps.

Winning at Twickenham is never easy so what should we expect?

Can we expect a backlash after what the England fans called a humiliating defeat? I think so!

For Gatland, he will be looking for Wales to stand up to the onslaught and hoping our superior fitness can put them away in the last quarter again. It will be a great opportunity for the newer players to put their hand up as we go into the RWC and give the coaches difficult selection choices.

I feel far happier than I did a couple of months ago.

[Sandydragon]

Unless we play a fully strength team (not sure what that is at the moment anyway) then the likelihood is we will lose. If Gats puts out a really experimental team then to me it doesn’t matter. A strong welsh team getting stuffed would be a concern, but another experimental side to give the wider squad an opportunity wouldn’t feel so disappointing.

I’m happy to set my expectations at a competitive performance, but I do expect the English to be well up for it and to start strongly.

[pompey-zebra]

From what the Fail has deduced from.the open training session yesterday, Wales will be another mix of youth and experience. Still a few not quite match ready, and some with knocks from Saturday ruling them out. Still, from reading the EMB, if England had plans to put a full strength team out, these might be scuppered as they're carrying injuries too.
Either way, I think the win last week has taken pressure off Wales to an extent, and there certainly seems a more positive vibe than in the 6N ( not that it could have been much worse!). Its injuries to key players that worry me now, not so much the results of the next two games.

[Sandydragon]

From what the Fail has deduced from.the open training session yesterday, Wales will be another mix of youth and experience. Still a few not quite match ready, and some with knocks from Saturday ruling them out. Still, from reading the EMB, if England had plans to put a full strength team out, these might be scuppered as they're carrying injuries too.
Either way, I think the win last week has taken pressure off Wales to an extent, and there certainly seems a more positive vibe than in the 6N ( not that it could have been much worse!). Its injuries to key players that worry me now, not so much the results of the next two games.

Exactly. We need to whittle down the large squad and that means giving everyone an audition basically. From an English perspective, if they put out a close to full strength team and it doesn’t easily beat our experimental one the that’s another round of kicking from the English media.

[Sourdust]

I definitely think the pressure is off, and that that should be exploited.

Playing a fully-loaded XXIII is fraught with dangers:

1) If we lose, even against full-strength England, it looks like a setback. It really isn't, unless we get properly stuffed, but it LOOKS that way, and appearances are important.

2) We risk injuries to front-line players.

3) We miss the opportunity to try new player/combinations and/or bed-in some from last week.

It's easy to say "results don't matter" in these "friendlies", but if you lose them all, it puts you in a very bad place. Wales don't have that problem now; we've got a win in the bank, so it's much easier to "focus on performance" and actually MEAN it. It's very different for England; if they lose, they're in deep, deep 5h1t. The press will tear them a new one, confidence will inevitably plummet, the fans will lose patience; plus, they'll have to hear us crowing about a "series whitewash" for the next few years For these reasons, I believe Borthwick has little choice but to go fully-loaded and win at all costs. IMO, rather than meet fire with fire and take all of the risks above, we'd be far better off throwing the dice again, accepting the likelihood of defeat, but reaping all the other benefits of that approach. And when the dust settles, we'll probably still be in a better place than them. That will only backfire if an experimental Wales side gets a proper, epic, 2007-esque shoeing... and while that's a risk, I honestly can't see it.

[normanski]

I love a ‘series whitewash’! I hope it comes about but have my reservations.

[Sourdust]

I love a ‘series whitewash’! I hope it comes about but have my reservations.

Oh I'd love it too; but I wouldn't pay an injured George North or Dewi Lake for it.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The pressure is off - the worst we can do is draw this mini-series. So we can still experiment a bit (and we need to - there's a lot to find out about these players - Borthwick is crazy to select his squad so early). The only big issue I have with experimenting is if we choose such a weakened team that they're trounced, so even the good players looks bad (see 2007 for Jenkins's genius use of this approach).

The odds will be against us if we go with the rumoured team (against England's first choice) but for all their 'hurting' and wounded animal status, we still have a motivational advantage over them: England's players are all safely in the WC squad, ours are not; many of our players will be needing a massive performance to ensure their Eurostar ticket. We will play the full 80, and if we can rattle them they could crack under the pressure to win at HQ.

[normanski]

The pressure is off - the worst we can do is draw this mini-series. So we can still experiment a bit (and we need to - there's a lot to find out about these players - Borthwick is crazy to select his squad so early). The only big issue I have with experimenting is if we choose such a weakened team that they're trounced, so even the good players looks bad (see 2007 for Jenkins's genius use of this approach).

The odds will be against us if we go with the rumoured team (against England's first choice) but for all their 'hurting' and wounded animal status, we still have a motivational advantage over them: England's players are all safely in the WC squad, ours are not; many of our players will be needing a massive performance to ensure their Eurostar ticket. We will play the full 80, and if we can rattle them they could crack under the pressure to win at HQ.

Good summary I think if we’re going to win then it will be a result of better (superior?) fitness. Some of their first choices won’t have played for some and there’s no substitute for match fitness. All to play for.

[Sourdust]

We are soooo overthinking this! But yes, every logic says keep experimenting. That way, our boys are playing for their places; theirs are playing not to get injured, but with the pressure of knowing that not only do they HAVE to win, but they will have to do so by a distance, to quiten the doubters.

I get that there will be some temptation because all of a sudden, it looks like a full-strength Wales team might actually be able to win this. But it's fool's gold. It would take too much out of us, for nothing but bragging rights that will only last a month anyway.

[ALunpg]

I have no real expectations for Saturday outwith the testing of new partnerships and identifying some new players who can stand up to these challenges.

If we learn about the new players and new partnerships and the performance is there, then I will be ok with that

The opportunity for these players is immense to test themselves against England at Twickenham. so none of this will be easy.
England are a better side than they played last week and should be ready to show that.

So the scenario is perfect for the lads selected to give Gats and the coaches some happy selection headaches.

[Sandydragon]

And we have South Africa the week after which won’t be easy and will demand a strong team. The Fail (and many of the pond life who inhabit their comments board) will moan about any defeat but of any international matches these really don’t matter. Better if they were uncapped. Give some of the other promising players a run out alongside some experience and let’s see how they get on. Then we select a stronger side perhaps against the Bokke.

[normanski]

And we have South Africa the week after which won’t be easy and will demand a strong team. The Fail (and many of the pond life who inhabit their comments board) will moan about any defeat but of any international matches these really don’t matter. Better if they were uncapped. Give some of the other promising players a run out alongside some experience and let’s see how they get on. Then we select a stronger side perhaps against the Bokke.

You’re right Sandy, but the only problem with uncapped games it can work against somebody like Rowlands, on the edge of 25 caps.

[Graigwen]

Here is the team for Saturday, just a few changes!

Wales: 15. Liam Williams, 14. Josh Adams, 13. Joe Roberts, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Tom Rogers, 10. Owen Williams, 9. Tomos Williams, 1. Gareth Thomas, 2. Dewi Lake (capt), 3. Tomas Francis, 4. Rhys Davies, 5. Adam Beard, 6. Dan Lydiate, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: 16. Sam Parry, 17. Kemsley Mathias, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Christ Tshiunza, 20. Taine Basham, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Keiran Williams.

[Son of Mathonwy]

And we have South Africa the week after which won’t be easy and will demand a strong team. The Fail (and many of the pond life who inhabit their comments board) will moan about any defeat but of any international matches these really don’t matter. Better if they were uncapped. Give some of the other promising players a run out alongside some experience and let’s see how they get on. Then we select a stronger side perhaps against the Bokke.

You’re right Sandy, but the only problem with uncapped games it can work against somebody like Rowlands, on the edge of 25 caps.

Capped games are also good for capturing dual-qualified players, and also better for ticket sales. They just put ranking points (and reputation) at risk . . . but that's a price worth paying in the RWC warmups.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Here is the team for Saturday, just a few changes!

Wales: 15. Liam Williams, 14. Josh Adams, 13. Joe Roberts, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Tom Rogers, 10. Owen Williams, 9. Tomos Williams, 1. Gareth Thomas, 2. Dewi Lake (capt), 3. Tomas Francis, 4. Rhys Davies, 5. Adam Beard, 6. Dan Lydiate, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: 16. Sam Parry, 17. Kemsley Mathias, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Christ Tshiunza, 20. Taine Basham, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Keiran Williams.

As per the public training session!

It's obviously not our strongest lineup but it's still pretty strong. There are plenty of first choice players in there and for me the only ones I have (many) doubts about at this level are Roberts and Rogers. But let's see what they can do. Hope Keiran Williams gets a fair crack at this. Let's see Lake react to Morgan's efforts last week as the battle for captaincy continues!

[normanski]

Considering the missed opportunities of developing younger players over the last three years, Gatland seems to have unearthed a few gems to take forward. A second completely different starting XV points to a growing strength in depth which we will need in France.

Interesting to see how this group man up on Saturday. They have all to play for.

[ALunpg]

Considering the missed opportunities of developing younger players over the last three years, Gatland seems to have unearthed a few gems to take forward. A second completely different starting XV points to a growing strength in depth which we will need in France.

Interesting to see how this group man up on Saturday. They have all to play for.

Totally agree, if ever there was a clear opportunity for these guys to step up... its this .

[UKHamlet]

Here is the team for Saturday, just a few changes!

Wales: 15. Liam Williams, 14. Josh Adams, 13. Joe Roberts, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Tom Rogers, 10. Owen Williams, 9. Tomos Williams, 1. Gareth Thomas, 2. Dewi Lake (capt), 3. Tomas Francis, 4. Rhys Davies, 5. Adam Beard, 6. Dan Lydiate, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: 16. Sam Parry, 17. Kemsley Mathias, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Christ Tshiunza, 20. Taine Basham, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Keiran Williams.

Liam to get broken in the first five mins, Nick and Tom to do revolving door impressions, and Dan to draw his pension at half time.

[Sandydragon]

Here is the team for Saturday, just a few changes!

Wales: 15. Liam Williams, 14. Josh Adams, 13. Joe Roberts, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Tom Rogers, 10. Owen Williams, 9. Tomos Williams, 1. Gareth Thomas, 2. Dewi Lake (capt), 3. Tomas Francis, 4. Rhys Davies, 5. Adam Beard, 6. Dan Lydiate, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: 16. Sam Parry, 17. Kemsley Mathias, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Christ Tshiunza, 20. Taine Basham, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Keiran Williams.

Liam to get broken in the first five mins, Nick and Tom to do revolving door impressions, and Dan to draw his pension at half time.

Hammys on the downward portion of the Welsh pre match optimism spiral!

[Son of Mathonwy]

Considering the missed opportunities of developing younger players over the last three years, Gatland seems to have unearthed a few gems to take forward. A second completely different starting XV points to a growing strength in depth which we will need in France.

Interesting to see how this group man up on Saturday. They have all to play for.

Which players do you think we should have developed but didn't?

[normanski]

Here is the team for Saturday, just a few changes!

Wales: 15. Liam Williams, 14. Josh Adams, 13. Joe Roberts, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Tom Rogers, 10. Owen Williams, 9. Tomos Williams, 1. Gareth Thomas, 2. Dewi Lake (capt), 3. Tomas Francis, 4. Rhys Davies, 5. Adam Beard, 6. Dan Lydiate, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: 16. Sam Parry, 17. Kemsley Mathias, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Christ Tshiunza, 20. Taine Basham, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Keiran Williams.

Liam to get broken in the first five mins, Nick and Tom to do revolving door impressions, and Dan to draw his pension at half time.
[/quote

Hammys on the downward portion of the Welsh pre match optimism spiral!

He has to be careful of the downward spiral - you can often find your screwed into the ground! We need to lift his spirits but I guess the only way for that to happen is a monumental ‘series win’ on Saturday.

[MrK]

Let’s hope Dewis brought his darts.
Rhys Davies starting is good. Need him to show his gnarly best.
I’m glad to see Christ in there as lock cover. For me that’s his future/ maybe covering 6. I don’t think he’s what we are looking for as a starting 6.
Also Plumtree starting with those flankers suggests he will get a free roaming 8 role.
Pleased with the choices in general, of those fit I think only Teddy and Evans with no game time ?

[normanski]

According to the Times, the England 23 have 1,067 caps between them - one of the most experienced sides they have ever put out.

Some of the players, like Vunipola and George haven’t played for many months and some of the 23 are nearing the end of their playing careers.

If Gatland has got the fitness and conditioning regime right then I think we could be in for an interesting afternoon.

[pompey-zebra]

On paper, England should win this one quite comfortably given it looks close to their first xv, they're at home and Wales are still fielding a mix and- match squad. But hopefully Wales will be motivated by that and with a win last week, the pressure should be off. As in the posts above, I just hope we come through unscathed on the injury front.