Eddie’s legacy

[Lizard]

Eddie Jones has made it pretty clear that he had both eyes on the future with his RWC2023 selections. So is this going to be the Ocker equivalent of Woodward’s 1998 “Tour of Hell” with the long term gains possibly justifying some horrible results? Or is it just a fuck up?

[Mikey Brown]

That may be what we’re told but it’s sort of hard to picture him continuing like this.

[Puja]

The comparison to the Tour of Hell isn't apt, because that squad was because of injuries and withdrawals caused by the ridiculous English calendar of the time - Woodward didn't choose to pick Richard Pool-Jones or Steve Ravenscroft over any experienced head; those were literally the last fit EQP available!

I mentioned in the match thread that I bet Eddie was wishing he could bring Cooper off the bench as Carter melted under pressure, or that he had MHooper to be a calming influence on the squad. Fiji worked quite hard to screw that game up (massive unnecessary skip passes, lineout collapse) and an experienced head would likely have won it for Australia. If they go out early, then it's 100% on Eddie unnecessarily jettisoning them.

Puja


ETA. Just went on an internet dive about the 1998 ToH and discovered that Australia scored 5 tries in the last 10 minutes of the 76-0 game - it was only(!) 47-0 on 70 minutes (only two converted - I'm assuming they were letting the props have a go at conversions for funsies at that point). This time period also coincides with the entire international career of Dominic Chapman, who was brought on for Tim Stimpson on 70 minutes for his only cap. Not implying the floodgates opening was his fault, but that's got to be the worst ever international career.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Actually starts off fairly good natured and humble, but gets weird, subdued and sort of psychopathic by the end of it. Porecki's face is pretty entertaining throughout. Referring to your own team as "a dead body" really is quite a move.

[Lizard]

Steve Ravenscroft! Thank you. I’ve been trying to remember his name.

I was telling my son my anecdote about playing in a 7s tournament for my work in London and couldn’t remember the dudes name. It was a big office and I was quite new (to the country and the firm). I struck up a conversation with another of the older guys in the squad. He seemed to know a bit so I asked if he played seriously. He said he’d played for London Welsh. Turns out it was Steve Ravenscroft. His knees were fucked so he couldn’t run much but he could pass and tackle ok.

[Puja]

Actually starts off fairly good natured and humble, but gets weird, subdued and sort of psychopathic by the end of it. Porecki's face is pretty entertaining throughout. Referring to your own team as "a dead body" really is quite a move.

I only watched the last couple of minutes, but Porecki's face was really something, especially when the dead body quip was made. Did he actually answer any questions or did he just sit there like a smacked arse all the time?

Steve Ravenscroft! Thank you. I’ve been trying to remember his name.

I was telling my son my anecdote about playing in a 7s tournament for my work in London and couldn’t remember the dudes name. It was a big office and I was quite new (to the country and the firm). I struck up a conversation with another of the older guys in the squad. He seemed to know a bit so I asked if he played seriously. He said he’d played for London Welsh. Turns out it was Steve Ravenscroft. His knees were fucked so he couldn’t run much but he could pass and tackle ok.

Considering I pulled his name from the XV at random (it's great, I can't remember huge swathes of important stuff in my life, but I can name debutants from the Tour of Hell who never played for England again - Ben Sturnham, Spencer Brown, Dave Sims), that's a fun coincidence!

Puja

[Puja]

Question for the crowd: If Australia do lose to Wales and go out in the first round, can Eddie survive as Australia coach? It'd be a bit harsh, given he's not exactly had a huge amount of time to work with and they did hire him as a long-term project, but then again so much of the difficulty has been self-inflicted and I frankly don't think that Dave Rennie's Australia would've been in this position. There's the definite argument in favour of treating him like Liz Truss - not had a huge amount of time to implement his vision, but it's been so godawful so far that it's probably for the best that we don't see any more.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

The suggestions that he might (in that scenario) be fired upwards in to a managements/directorial position sound kind of likely to me if they can secure another name willing to do the Neinaber job under him.

[Puja]

The suggestions that he might (in that scenario) be fired upwards in to a managements/directorial position sound kind of likely to me if they can secure another name willing to do the Neinaber job under him.

He can't keep an assistant coach for longer than a year without them taking any other job to get away from him - do you think it'd be wise to give him *more* seniority?

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Question for the crowd: If Australia do lose to Wales and go out in the first round, can Eddie survive as Australia coach? It'd be a bit harsh, given he's not exactly had a huge amount of time to work with and they did hire him as a long-term project, but then again so much of the difficulty has been self-inflicted and I frankly don't think that Dave Rennie's Australia would've been in this position. There's the definite argument in favour of treating him like Liz Truss - not had a huge amount of time to implement his vision, but it's been so godawful so far that it's probably for the best that we don't see any more.

Puja

I don't know anything about the politics of it, or how strong his position is within the Aussie setup, but he shouldn't be able to make excuses about this being a long term project, and this is the necessary pain for a long term benefit (unless he was specifically hired with the understanding that this WC was to be sacrificed for the next one).

Any head coach coming into the WC, no matter how short a lead-in needs to prioritize the current world cup. Bringing in a young new squad can wait a couple of months if there are some old wardogs who would give you a better result right now.

My guess is if he loses to Wales, he's toast.

[Mikey Brown]

The suggestions that he might (in that scenario) be fired upwards in to a managements/directorial position sound kind of likely to me if they can secure another name willing to do the Neinaber job under him.

He can't keep an assistant coach for longer than a year without them taking any other job to get away from him - do you think it'd be wise to give him *more* seniority?

Puja

I don’t think it would be wise at all, but Aus have put themselves in a horrible position having fucked Rennie over and banked on Jones as the saviour.

Their club game seems like a bit of a mess from the little I understand and he’s right about them needing to look to the future. I could just see it being more a move of desperation or to save face. Acknowledging they haven’t got the right man-manager for the job but at least have someone heavily invested with masses of experience to draw from.

Saying all that, the idea of ditching a coach just before the World Cup in order to do development for 5 years time is obviously idiotic. I can’t believe that was their plan initially. You just have to assume Eddie has a lot of sway with the people at the top.

Part of me just wants the Eddie soap opera to continue a bit longer, now that England are at a safe distance. Who would want to his Neinaber I don’t know.

[cashead]

Question for the crowd: If Australia do lose to Wales and go out in the first round, can Eddie survive as Australia coach? It'd be a bit harsh, given he's not exactly had a huge amount of time to work with and they did hire him as a long-term project, but then again so much of the difficulty has been self-inflicted and I frankly don't think that Dave Rennie's Australia would've been in this position. There's the definite argument in favour of treating him like Liz Truss - not had a huge amount of time to implement his vision, but it's been so godawful so far that it's probably for the best that we don't see any more.

Puja

I don't know anything about the politics of it, or how strong his position is within the Aussie setup, but he shouldn't be able to make excuses about this being a long term project, and this is the necessary pain for a long term benefit (unless he was specifically hired with the understanding that this WC was to be sacrificed for the next one).

Any head coach coming into the WC, no matter how short a lead-in needs to prioritize the current world cup. Bringing in a young new squad can wait a couple of months if there are some old wardogs who would give you a better result right now.

My guess is if he loses to Wales, he's toast.

I can't say I agree. Usually, he probably would be, but I'm not convinced RA have the means to fire him and buy out the remaining 4 years and change of his contract. These days, it's hard not to see them as a clownshow to rival the NZRU, in that even when something is going well, they find a means to get in their own way - case in point the endless squabbling their chairperson Hamish McLennan has engaged in since his appointment, often to Australian rugby's detriment. I'm not saying Mark Robinson is without fault or sin - I've been quite critical of that suck-ass failure-junkie - but fuck me, it would be nice to go a week without those two limpdick fuck-ups screaming at each other over all manner of sleights, real and perceived, in public for a change.

Looking a the squad, it's hard not to get the sense that he was "looking to the future" in the sense that he was trying to brute force and use this tournament as a catalyst for sparking something within the next generation of players, but I'm going to assume that he probably didn't expect them to get their shit wrecked so often and so thoroughly throughout this year.

[Puja]

Question for the crowd: If Australia do lose to Wales and go out in the first round, can Eddie survive as Australia coach? It'd be a bit harsh, given he's not exactly had a huge amount of time to work with and they did hire him as a long-term project, but then again so much of the difficulty has been self-inflicted and I frankly don't think that Dave Rennie's Australia would've been in this position. There's the definite argument in favour of treating him like Liz Truss - not had a huge amount of time to implement his vision, but it's been so godawful so far that it's probably for the best that we don't see any more.

Puja

I don't know anything about the politics of it, or how strong his position is within the Aussie setup, but he shouldn't be able to make excuses about this being a long term project, and this is the necessary pain for a long term benefit (unless he was specifically hired with the understanding that this WC was to be sacrificed for the next one).

Any head coach coming into the WC, no matter how short a lead-in needs to prioritize the current world cup. Bringing in a young new squad can wait a couple of months if there are some old wardogs who would give you a better result right now.

My guess is if he loses to Wales, he's toast.

I can't say I agree. Usually, he probably would be, but I'm not convinced RA have the means to fire him and buy out the remaining 4 years and change of his contract. These days, it's hard not to see them as a clownshow to rival the NZRU, in that even when something is going well, they find a means to get in their own way - case in point the endless squabbling their chairperson Hamish McLennan has engaged in since his appointment, often to Australian rugby's detriment. I'm not saying Mark Robinson is without fault or sin - I've been quite critical of that suck-ass failure-junkie - but fuck me, it would be nice to go a week without those two limpdick fuck-ups screaming at each other over all manner of sleights, real and perceived, in public for a change.

Looking a the squad, it's hard not to get the sense that he was "looking to the future" in the sense that he was trying to brute force and use this tournament as a catalyst for sparking something within the next generation of players, but I'm going to assume that he probably didn't expect them to get their shit wrecked so often and so thoroughly throughout this year.

If he loses to Wales, it's 7 losses from 7 game against Tier 1 opposition, with only victories against Georgia and Portugal (maybe best not to count those chickens either...) to break up the parade of failure. That's surely not survivable. Surely someone in RA put in some kind of performance clause in that contract? Surely?

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Question for the crowd: If Australia do lose to Wales and go out in the first round, can Eddie survive as Australia coach? It'd be a bit harsh, given he's not exactly had a huge amount of time to work with and they did hire him as a long-term project, but then again so much of the difficulty has been self-inflicted and I frankly don't think that Dave Rennie's Australia would've been in this position. There's the definite argument in favour of treating him like Liz Truss - not had a huge amount of time to implement his vision, but it's been so godawful so far that it's probably for the best that we don't see any more.

Puja

I don't know anything about the politics of it, or how strong his position is within the Aussie setup, but he shouldn't be able to make excuses about this being a long term project, and this is the necessary pain for a long term benefit (unless he was specifically hired with the understanding that this WC was to be sacrificed for the next one).

Any head coach coming into the WC, no matter how short a lead-in needs to prioritize the current world cup. Bringing in a young new squad can wait a couple of months if there are some old wardogs who would give you a better result right now.

My guess is if he loses to Wales, he's toast.

I can't say I agree. Usually, he probably would be, but I'm not convinced RA have the means to fire him and buy out the remaining 4 years and change of his contract. These days, it's hard not to see them as a clownshow to rival the NZRU, in that even when something is going well, they find a means to get in their own way - case in point the endless squabbling their chairperson Hamish McLennan has engaged in since his appointment, often to Australian rugby's detriment. I'm not saying Mark Robinson is without fault or sin - I've been quite critical of that suck-ass failure-junkie - but fuck me, it would be nice to go a week without those two limpdick fuck-ups screaming at each other over all manner of sleights, real and perceived, in public for a change.

Looking a the squad, it's hard not to get the sense that he was "looking to the future" in the sense that he was trying to brute force and use this tournament as a catalyst for sparking something within the next generation of players, but I'm going to assume that he probably didn't expect them to get their shit wrecked so often and so thoroughly throughout this year.

Sure, maybe, if RA have bought into this fail in RWC 23 to win RWC 27 plan and have contracted him accordingly. Seems crazy but that doesn't mean they didn't do it.

[canta_brian]

RIP Australian rugby

[cashead]

lol, and might I add, lmao.

[cashead]

Watch the video that has been posted. For all his faults, it's clear Cooper has developed into a leader for the Wallabies. James O'Connor, the reformed wild boy, has been a vital cog in the Reds squad. Michael Hooper has stacks of experience, not just as a Wallaby, but also as Wallabies captain.

Eddie Jones chose to disregard what they could bring to the table.

Eddie needs to go, but so does Hamish McLennan. But hey, not to worry, they just threw stacks of cash at Angus Crichton to poach him from the Sydney Roosters. Yeah, that'll solve everything - another league player.

[morepork]

Eddie fucked them hard man. What a dildo.

[Puja]

And now he's dropped Kerevi, presumably on the basis that the less experience and leadership his team has, the better. Surprised Slipper's survived, tbh.

Puja

[cashead]

lol, and might I add, lmao.

[Mikey Brown]

So is he actually gone (for Japan) or is it still not 100% confirmed?

Sounds like it's just a matter of time before it's official. What a piece of shit he is.

[morepork]

Never, in the field of human conflict, have so many been fucked over by so few.

[Son of Mathonwy]

So is he actually gone (for Japan) or is it still not 100% confirmed?

Sounds like it's just a matter of time before it's official. What a piece of shit he is.

Surely Japan could do better though?

Trying to think of a nation that could benefit from his coaching. Indonesia? Rwanda?

[Mikey Brown]

So is he actually gone (for Japan) or is it still not 100% confirmed?

Sounds like it's just a matter of time before it's official. What a piece of shit he is.

Surely Japan could do better though?

Trying to think of a nation that could benefit from his coaching. Indonesia? Rwanda?

Prior to his Australia stint I actually thought he might be a good emergency call for anyone on the shit side of the draw who needs a bit of a boost, but even his short-term positives seem to have disappeared.

It’ll be a shame for Japan if things go the same way.

Is Rennie still off to Japan? Will they have to work together in a sense

[Puja]

So is he actually gone (for Japan) or is it still not 100% confirmed?

Sounds like it's just a matter of time before it's official. What a piece of shit he is.

Surely Japan could do better though?

Trying to think of a nation that could benefit from his coaching. Indonesia? Rwanda?

I was musing in another thread about how it's a shame that the rumour of him going to the US after 2023 wasn't based in anything. I think he'd do well with being given a minnow with lots of undeveloped raw talent and a mandate to take control of whatever he liked to get results.

Puja