RugbyRebels

The Times (I know it's in t'other thread) saying England going with:

15 M Smith
14 M Malins
13 E Daly
12 O Lawrence
11 H Arundell
10 O Farrell
9 D Care
1 B Rodd
2 T Dan
3 K Sinckler
4 D Ribbans
5 G Martin
6 L Ludlam
7 J Willis
8 B Vunipola

Farrell an obvious starter after his ban, same with Billy to get game time. I actually like the backfield (11 onwards, for this game!), IF (and that's doing a shit tonne of lifting) we don't just play kick and chase. These are the main two that will likely alter the first choice squad.

I think there is an opportunity for a winger to push for a spot in the team, beyond that I don't see much of the '1st choice' being too troubled. Sinckler maybe, fitness allowing, but his form hasn't exactly been sparkling.

It would be good that Dan, Martin, Billy V, Lawrence and Smith get starts as all of these should have an important part to play in the K/O stages ..as replacements. They have all looked effective thus far in this role and seem to fit in to the team structure quite well.
That said, if Lawrence is a mini-Manu +, and Marchant remains as defensive lynchpin, if Ford maintains form and fitness there may not be much scope to bring Skip on unless it's kitchen sink time.

I don't get the value in putting Daly in at centre. He's not an international centre and never has been - porous in defence and ineffective in anything other than showing off individual running skills in attack. I'm sure he'll look good against Chile - we've always been good flat-track bullies - but it feels like a pointless selection.

Puja

I'm not sure if Farrell at 10 rather than 12 is a good or bad thing here. Does it diminish the likelihood of him playing at 12 in future matches or make it more likely that he's going to jump straight back in at 10 in front of Ford?

I think on balance Ford, Farrell, Anyone would be even worse than Farrell, Manu, Marchant if Selectorial Belligerence affords the IceMan a starting spot later in the tournament

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:00 am

Farrell an obvious starter after his ban, same with Billy to get game time. I actually like the backfield (11 onwards, for this game!), IF (and that's doing a shit tonne of lifting) we don't just play kick and chase. These are the main two that will likely alter the first choice squad.

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:11 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:00 am

Farrell an obvious starter after his ban, same with Billy to get game time. I actually like the backfield (11 onwards, for this game!), IF (and that's doing a shit tonne of lifting) we don't just play kick and chase. These are the main two that will likely alter the first choice squad.

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:11 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:00 am

Farrell an obvious starter after his ban, same with Billy to get game time. I actually like the backfield (11 onwards, for this game!), IF (and that's doing a shit tonne of lifting) we don't just play kick and chase. These are the main two that will likely alter the first choice squad.

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Strangely enough, if those players are to be selected, I'd rather have 11. Daly, 13. Smith, 15. Malins.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:11 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:00 am

Farrell an obvious starter after his ban, same with Billy to get game time. I actually like the backfield (11 onwards, for this game!), IF (and that's doing a shit tonne of lifting) we don't just play kick and chase. These are the main two that will likely alter the first choice squad.

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Also think the front row a good'un. Bevan & Theo, about bl*ody time.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:11 pm

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Strangely enough, if those players are to be selected, I'd rather have 11. Daly, 13. Smith, 15. Malins.

so you'd rather Smith didn't have his first ever senior start at 15, rather have his first ever senior start at 13. Smith looks more likely to fit at 15 than 13 (his running style would be tricky to work with for a 15/wing outside him, and I don't want to talk about defence), but then I don't think he's a very good idea at 15 either. Hopefully it doesn't matter much v Chile, but just imagine that backline v SA, France or Ireland.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:11 pm

Right with you EP. Has a good balance of skill sets and - I know it is only Chile - but should be really creative in attack

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Also think the front row a good'un. Bevan & Theo, about bl*ody time.

I'm a Dan fan; Rodd, nodd so much.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:12 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Strangely enough, if those players are to be selected, I'd rather have 11. Daly, 13. Smith, 15. Malins.

so you'd rather Smith didn't have his first ever senior start at 15, rather have his first ever senior start at 13. Smith looks more likely to fit at 15 than 13 (his running style would be tricky to work with for a 15/wing outside him, and I don't want to talk about defence), but then I don't think he's a very good idea at 15 either. Hopefully it doesn't matter much v Chile, but just imagine that backline v SA, France or Ireland.

You tease. No way SB would chance his arm with such a destructive attacking back line. He would select one that would whimper into submission after trying to kick us to victory.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:16 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:12 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm

Strangely enough, if those players are to be selected, I'd rather have 11. Daly, 13. Smith, 15. Malins.

so you'd rather Smith didn't have his first ever senior start at 15, rather have his first ever senior start at 13. Smith looks more likely to fit at 15 than 13 (his running style would be tricky to work with for a 15/wing outside him, and I don't want to talk about defence), but then I don't think he's a very good idea at 15 either. Hopefully it doesn't matter much v Chile, but just imagine that backline v SA, France or Ireland.

You tease. No way SB would chance his arm with such a destructive attacking back line. He would select one that would whimper into submission after trying to kick us to victory.

#territorybattle

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:12 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:42 pm

I'm loving the backfield other than Malins and Smith at 15 .

Strangely enough, if those players are to be selected, I'd rather have 11. Daly, 13. Smith, 15. Malins.

so you'd rather Smith didn't have his first ever senior start at 15, rather have his first ever senior start at 13. Smith looks more likely to fit at 15 than 13 (his running style would be tricky to work with for a 15/wing outside him, and I don't want to talk about defence), but then I don't think he's a very good idea at 15 either. Hopefully it doesn't matter much v Chile, but just imagine that backline v SA, France or Ireland.

Quite. But as my back line would be Quirke, Smith, Daly, Lawrence, Slade, ?, Steward it's a bit academic anyway.

Its worth giving Smith a run at FB. I dont expect he'll start there any time soon in a big game but he is handy bench option.

The rest of the side is going to be a bit of mix n match with players getting a start, or just some game time.

It's interesting that we basically know the team already, and have done for pretty much all of Borthwick's tenure. It was the same situation when Burt was in charge, but under Eddie, there were no team news leaks whatsoever, presumably with the threat of draconian punishments to anyone found leaking them. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing - it may be indicative of a less disciplined camp and lower control by the management but, on the other hand, does it really matter that much? Is it a thing that's worth making an issue out of or was Eddie just being too much of a control freak?

Of course, there is the possibility that this is the long game and Stop Ballkicking is leaking the teamsheets himself until the time that he can sell a massive dummy and leak false information that another team plans around.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:45 pm It's interesting that we basically know the team already, and have done for pretty much all of Borthwick's tenure. It was the same situation when Burt was in charge, but under Eddie, there were no team news leaks whatsoever, presumably with the threat of draconian punishments to anyone found leaking them. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing - it may be indicative of a less disciplined camp and lower control by the management but, on the other hand, does it really matter that much? Is it a thing that's worth making an issue out of or was Eddie just being too much of a control freak?

Of course, there is the possibility that this is the long game and Stop Ballkicking is leaking the teamsheets himself until the time that he can sell a massive dummy and leak false information that another team plans around.

Puja

Yeah I like South Africa’s approach of seemingly being desperate to put their team out there and say ‘this is what we’ve got, try and beat it’. I don’t know what Borthwick’s rationale of being so last-minute about announcements is (along with never telling you if players are fit or not) unless there’s some sort of major tactical ploy as you suggest.

I’m unsure how I feel about the Chile game. On one hand it might be nice to see us run around a bit and score some tries, but that feels like it will be even relevant to the greater campaign.

We might have fantastic success forcing them to make errors in their 22 and grinding them down. More useful practice for those in 23 contention? I guess so. The team is a bit weird though. Smith is getting a game at 15 just in time to not be an option in the 23 anymore, with Ford having cemented his place and Farrell free to play.

Weirdly if Smith were to have a chance we’d probably be playing Farrell at 12 this week, meaning he has to play 10. Or SB is sincerely thinking of putting Steward on the wing.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:17 pm Its worth giving Smith a run at FB. I dont expect he'll start there any time soon in a big game but he is handy bench option.

The rest of the side is going to be a bit of mix n match with players getting a start, or just some game time.

What does it tell us though? Can he really be a viable option on the bench at 15 if Steward gets a knock relatively early against the Tier 1's?

Starting

15. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 26 caps)

14. Henry Arundell (Racing 92, 8 caps)

13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 61 caps)

12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 16 caps)

11. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 21 caps)

10. Owen Farrell – captain (Saracens, 107 caps)

9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 91 caps)

1. Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 3 caps)

2. Theo Dan (Saracens, 5 caps)

3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 64 caps)

4. David Ribbans (Toulon, 8 caps)

5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)

6. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 23 caps)

7. Jack Willis (Toulouse, 13 caps)

8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 71 caps)

Replacements

16. Jack Walker (Harlequins, 4 caps)

17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 84 caps)

18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 31 caps)

19. Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)

20. Ben Earl (Saracens, 20 caps)

21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 125 caps)

22. George Ford – vice captain (Sale Sharks, 87 caps)

23. Joe Marchant (Stade Francais, 21 caps)

---------‐----------‐--------------------------------------------------------------------

Walker has more caps than minutes, wonder if that will change.

Mitchell must be on the naughty step.

As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:36 pm As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

He's had the ball passed to him about four times in his test career to date.

Would be nice for him to at least double that at the weekend.

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:45 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:36 pm As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

He's had the ball passed to him about four times in his test career to date.

Would be nice for him to at least double that at the weekend.

Passing is so last year!

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:36 pm As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

Well Ribbans did say we want to play like England ............ so, eyes up

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:45 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:36 pm As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

He's had the ball passed to him about four times in his test career to date.

Would be nice for him to at least double that at the weekend.

12 carries in 8 games, a fair chunk will be from kicks.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:02 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:45 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:36 pm As expected. Henry Arundell!!! Finally! Now let’s just kick the crap out of it!!!

He's had the ball passed to him about four times in his test career to date.

Would be nice for him to at least double that at the weekend.

12 carries in 8 games, a fair chunk will be from kicks.

Madness isn't it. I know there were a chunk of sub appearances in there, and there will be cries of 'he needs to look for work', but we just don't hit width with attacking ball.

Hoping for a 4 try bonus point win and a red card at 10.