RugbyRebels

So, where does SB go from here?

In his early selection considerations, maybe he should ask whether any of Farrell, Vunipola or Tuilagi truly merit a place in the 23. I mean the 23, not the XV, because all three skew the creativity potential from the bench with their presence anywhere.

Farrell is simply not as good as Ford who should get the 10 shirt. Smith is far more use in the 22 shirt than Farrrll woukd be.

Vunipola clearly is behind Earl and Ludlam for the 8 shirt and should be behind Underhill, Ludlam and Martin for the 20 shirt.

Tuilagi at 12/13 gives a reasonably effective 20/30 minutes but removes the threat from Arundell/Daly/May off the bench because Lawrence has to be there for injury/fatigue cover (or, even worse - Farrell at 23).

SB needs to grow a pair and pick none of the three in the match-day squad.

You've covered most of it. Seems sort of futile to be honest when you know Farrell and Vunipola get a spot regardless. All the scrum-halves seem to be terrible. Is there a form tight-head? Are we really going to play Cole vs Fiji?

I'd start from a positive point of view as to what the best team to beat Fiji is tbh...ie who is in, rather than ruling players out

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:52 am I'd start from a positive point of view as to what the best team to beat Fiji is tbh...ie who is in, rather than ruling players out

Which, if any, of our players have Portuguese ancestry would be a good place to start. Failing that, perhaps lunch at Nandos on Friday.

This could be a proper bald men fighting over a comb match.

Optimistically ir the chances of a decent game, both sides knew they were through and were testing options and putting minutes into some fringe players, just in case.

Realistically, we're a shambles, with a clueless coaching staff who don't have the courage to drop recognisable names in the fear that it backfires, and Fiji have played their 2 Cup finals, gotten the result they needed in one, and a boost from Aus getting thrashed by Wales, and genuinely don't have anything left in the tank.

The latter will be dismal viewing and if it's one from part A one from part B it will be a one-sided drudge.

Not promising. Thankfully there's 2 blockbusters in the 8 o'clock kick offs to give the tournament back some momentum.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:52 am I'd start from a positive point of view as to what the best team to beat Fiji is tbh...ie who is in, rather than ruling players out

Fair enough: Earl at 8, Ford at 10, Lawrence at 12, Arundell at 14, Ludlam at 20, Smith at 22, Daly/May at 23.

Not sure what combo will solve the horror show of the attacking breakdown. Botia will be licking his lips.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:08 am Not sure what combo will solve the horror show of the attacking breakdown. Botia will be licking his lips.

I reckon dropping Lawes and Cole would give us an immediate boost, not having 2 gassed players wandering around miles off the pace if we get more than 2 metres from the last ruck will help there

I don't really buy into the Arundell hype train. Daly has been disappointing this world cup and kicked more attacking ball away than Farrell. Manu is still effective at this level and having Lawrence come on against tired legs make sense.

I'm hoping for;

Marler, George, Sinckler
Chessum, Itoje
Underhill, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Lawes, Care, Lawrence, Arundell.

Go to the bench early for impact from Genge, Lawes and the backs.

Obviously won't happen as the ice man must be selected.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:08 am Not sure what combo will solve the horror show of the attacking breakdown. Botia will be licking his lips.

T Willis would help, had he been picked in the first place or called up instead of Underhill. I'm not convinced by Underhill and Curry on the flanks if Earl is at 8. Starting from here, if SB is going to take on board where things have gone wrong, my initial thought in how he reverses the trend, should he drop Lawes altogether? I see no point in having him on the bench. I'd probably go for Ludlam, Curry and Earl with Underhill on the bench. Had the right guy been called up, I'd have gone for Earl, Curry, T Willis with Ludlam at 20.

Marler, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Ludlam, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
May, Manu, Marchant, Arundell
Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Underhill, Care, Smith, Lawrence

Not perfect, but best we can do, imo.

I would also admit to not being fully behind Arundell...but I really don't see any other choice.

Daly and May have been crap, Malins is not an international winger, and Steward isn't a winger. We've been backed into a corner by Jones and then Scatman Blunderbuss.

There's only one thing for certain: lukewarm man must go.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:12 am I don't really buy into the Arundell hype train. Daly has been disappointing this world cup and kicked more attacking ball away than Farrell. Manu is still effective at this level and having Lawrence come on against tired legs make sense.

I'm hoping for;

Marler, George, Sinckler
Chessum, Itoje
Underhill, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Lawes, Care, Lawrence, Arundell.

Go to the bench early for impact from Genge, Lawes and the backs.

Obviously won't happen as the ice man must be selected.

yeuch to your back three. Steward is a wing waiting to be run round by a fijian (I'm assuming you aren't putting Smith on the wing). Underhill is as rusty as p/d's nails. I haven't anything much better to offer though

Ludlam, Curry, Earl.......May, Arundell, Steward. But not that happy with that either.

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:41 am Marler, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Ludlam, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
May, Manu, Marchant, Arundell
Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Underhill, Care, Smith, Lawrence

Not perfect, but best we can do, imo.

I would also admit to not being fully behind Arundell...but I really don't see any other choice.

Daly and May have been crap, Malins is not an international winger, and Steward isn't a winger. We've been backed into a corner by Jones and then Scatman Blunderbuss.

There's only one thing for certain: lukewarm man must go.

Nabbed your team

Back three corner is all down to Stewards Bitch

To be fair I didn't realise Underhill has only played 73 mins in one game for Bath so far. I was thinking that big tackler and Huge work rate might well be good for forty mins Vs Fiji and then sub him for Lawes.

I'm not a big fan of that back three but Steward did play quite well Vs Samoa and Smith gives us two creative players that gets the most from our attack. It's a bit like the Kiwis under Foster trying to shove the players that get the most from the team into the side irrespective of whether it's not in their best positions.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:56 am To be fair I didn't realise Underhill has only played 73 mins in one game for Bath so far. I was thinking that big tackler and Huge work rate might well be good for forty mins Vs Fiji and then sub him for Lawes.

I'm not a big fan of that back three but Steward did play quite well Vs Samoa and Smith gives us two creative players that gets the most from our attack. It's a bit like the Kiwis under Foster trying to shove the players that get the most from the team into the side irrespective of whether it's not in their best positions.

Steward on the wing doesn't quite compare with Barrett at 15 tbh.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:12 am I don't really buy into the Arundell hype train. Daly has been disappointing this world cup and kicked more attacking ball away than Farrell. Manu is still effective at this level and having Lawrence come on against tired legs make sense.

I'm hoping for;

Marler, George, Sinckler
Chessum, Itoje
Underhill, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Lawes, Care, Lawrence, Arundell.

Go to the bench early for impact from Genge, Lawes and the backs.

Obviously won't happen as the ice man must be selected.

It's funny how many of us are sort of angling for that back three despite a) May being past it b) Steward not being a winger c) Smith not being a fullback d) Clive Woodward saying he would select the same.

It makes no sense to me, but I want to see it now just to get some sort of spark in the backline.

We're so painfully boring to watch, we should least make the out of position choices entertaining rather than just watching Marchant be a 5/10 on the wing outside the slowest midfield in history. If it were me I'd consider ditching May and Tuilagi for some combo of Arundel and Lawrence, with Farrell on the bench, but anything regarding Farrell is a pointless discussion as you say.

It'll be an unchanged side.

SB will say that the guys were rusty after a week off and resting for the Chile game, while the captain just needs game time to come good.

No drama. We'll be just fine.......

Wont we?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:15 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:12 am I don't really buy into the Arundell hype train. Daly has been disappointing this world cup and kicked more attacking ball away than Farrell. Manu is still effective at this level and having Lawrence come on against tired legs make sense.

I'm hoping for;

Marler, George, Sinckler
Chessum, Itoje
Underhill, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Lawes, Care, Lawrence, Arundell.

Go to the bench early for impact from Genge, Lawes and the backs.

Obviously won't happen as the ice man must be selected.

It's funny how many of us are sort of angling for that back three despite a) May being past it b) Steward not being a winger c) Smith not being a fullback d) Clive Woodward saying he would select the same.

It makes no sense to me, but I want to see it now just to get some sort of spark in the backline.

We're so painfully boring to watch, we should least make the out of position choices entertaining rather than just watching Marchant be a 5/10 on the wing outside the slowest midfield in history. If it were me I'd consider ditching May and Tuilagi for some combo of Arundel and Lawrence, with Farrell on the bench, but anything regarding Farrell is a pointless discussion as you say.

I don't think Woodward has favoured May (at least in his newspaper column) at any point.

Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:02 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:52 am I'd start from a positive point of view as to what the best team to beat Fiji is tbh...ie who is in, rather than ruling players out

Fair enough: Earl at 8, Ford at 10, Lawrence at 12, Arundell at 14, Ludlam at 20, Smith at 22, Daly/May at 23.

I'm still not convinced by Lawrence at 12. His ball retention in contact is horrible and he's not good at either making dents in the close-defence that a 12 runs into, or at creating space for those outside of him. Manu may not be a 13 anymore, but he's still our best 12 and has shown a decent partnership with Marchant.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:40 am Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

I mean sure, that's the rational response, but frankly I'm just bored of watching England.

Malins is theoretically a nifty, playmaking 15 but he's probably got less time at fullback than Smith in the last couple of seasons since he was (occasionally) playing there for Bristol. I don't get the sense he would have been training there. Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:04 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:40 am Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Or watching Fijians run round them?

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:59 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:56 am To be fair I didn't realise Underhill has only played 73 mins in one game for Bath so far. I was thinking that big tackler and Huge work rate might well be good for forty mins Vs Fiji and then sub him for Lawes.

I'm not a big fan of that back three but Steward did play quite well Vs Samoa and Smith gives us two creative players that gets the most from our attack. It's a bit like the Kiwis under Foster trying to shove the players that get the most from the team into the side irrespective of whether it's not in their best positions.

Steward on the wing doesn't quite compare with Barrett at 15 tbh.

I was thinking more that Smith was akin to Barrett. Quick and attacking minded playmaker who's game management skills are sometimes questioned. Don't want to lose his influence on the team but also don't want him to be in the 10 shirt controlling matters.

The ABs converted Jordie Barrett from 15 to centre and shoved Will Jordan to the wing (admittedly he's well equipped to be there with his pace through it doesn't allow him to play his best) to accommodate both in the starting line up.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:04 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:40 am Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

I mean sure, that's the rational response, but frankly I'm just bored of watching England.

Malins is theoretically a nifty, playmaking 15 but he's probably got less time at fullback than Smith in the last couple of seasons since he was (occasionally) playing there for Bristol. I don't get the sense he would have been training there. Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Looping nicely back around to the 2nd half of Cueto's International career.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Lawes, Earl, Curry
Mitchell, Ford
May, Tuilagi, Marchant, Arundell
Steward

Marler, Dan, Stuart, Martin, Ludlam, Anyone, Smith, Lawrence

That’s about the best we can hope for from Silly Bollocks