ABs v England

[J Dory]

Teams:

England: 1. Ellis Genge 2. Jamie George (c) 3. Will Stuart 4. Maro Itoje 5. George Martin 6. Chandler Cunningham-South 7. Tom Curry 8. Ben Earl 9. Ben Spencer 10. Marcus Smith 11. Tommy Freeman 12. Ollie Lawrence 13. Henry Slade 14. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso 15. George Furbank

Bench: 16. Theo Dan 17. Fin Baxter 18. Dan Cole 19. Nick Isiekwe 20. Ben Curry 21. Alex Dombrandt 22. Harry Randall 23. George Ford

All Blacks: 1. Tamaiti Williams, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Tyrel Lomax, 4. Scott Barrett (Captain), 5. Tupou Vaa’i, 6. Wallace Sititi, 7. Sam Cane, 8. Ardie Savea (Vice-Captain), 9. Cortez Ratima, 10. Beauden Barrett, 11. Caleb Clarke, 12. Jordie Barrett (Vice-Captain), 13. Rieko Ioane, 14. Mark Tele’a, 15. Will Jordan.

Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua, 17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi, 18. Pasilio Tosi, 19. Patrick Tuipulotu, 20. Samipeni Finau, 21. Cam Roigard, 22. Anton Lienert-Brown, 23. Damian McKenzie.

[cashead]

Ethan de Groot probably would've started, but he's been stood down for an undisclosed protocol breach. Shame.

Anyway, that's probably close to the top team, and I guess it'll be Ratima vs Roigard at 9 for the foreseeable future. McKenzie off the bench is also probably the right use of him as well. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but he just wasn't really working out at 10, and with young options like Jacomb coming through, I don't think he'll be getting too many more starts for a while.


Biggest concern for me though is how much the other options at 7 have dropped off. Papali'i will want to rebuild next year, where it'll probably be a battle between him, Lakai and Kirifi. Lakai looked great off the bench last week, and Kirifi will be looking to impress against Munster. Sam Cane has slowed down a lot and is missing some tackles that he would've nailed, but dude's still a fucking beast in the breakdowns. Like, he was getting penalties and turnovers at will almost, and made genuine world class loose forward Kazuki Himeno look like shit.

[J Dory]

Looks like a good team, maybe only Ioane slightly lucky to be there, hopefully he can get more space with Barrett running the show.

[J Dory]

Missed bits of the game but what i did see, ABs looked a bit panicked a lot of the time, pushing passes and miracle offloads. Credit to Englands defense, they stopped the ball getting to the wing very effectively, the response was to kick it in behind. Feels like the ABs are missing some midfield penetration, #bringbackNonu

[canta_brian]

The lack of discipline was a worry. Lots of pressure relieving for the English

[Cameo]

Missed bits of the game but what i did see, ABs looked a bit panicked a lot of the time, pushing passes and miracle offloads. Credit to Englands defense, they stopped the ball getting to the wing very effectively, the response was to kick it in behind. Feels like the ABs are missing some midfield penetration, #bringbackNonu

Agree, but isn't looking a bit panicky the price you pay for taking the risks needed to beat a rush defence? It won't pay off all the time and will lead to annoying mistakes, but their attack did create chances.

[paddy no 11]

Good win for nz

Backrow, front row and roigard decent

[J Dory]

yep, really happy with that, Ireland looked rusty, no doubt will come back better, but ABs were in control from start to finish

[J Dory]

still feel our midfield back combo is off, defensively solid, but lacking on attack

[cashead]

yep, really happy with that, Ireland looked rusty, no doubt will come back better, but ABs were in control from start to finish

Ireland never looked comfortable, and were under constant scoreboard pressure.

The stats speak volumes - the All Blacks had over 300m made post contact, vs 177m for the Irish. 15 penalties against the Irish, vs 5 against the ABs. 9 linebreaks by the ABs, 1 by Ireland - by a front row forward, inexplicably. The top metres made with ball in hand for the Irish was 40m for James Lowe vs 90m for both Jordan and DMac. Tele'a appeared to be well-contained, but he also made 63m. McKenzie made 4 offloads, matching the entirety of the Irish.
Ireland did well to disrupt the rucks and slow the ball down, but in the end, it contributed to them putting themselves under constant scoreboard pressure particularly when Berry started pinging them for their shit. Even when van der Flier scored his try, during one of the few periods where Ireland looked to have gained control over the game, they were never really out of touch for the ABs.

[paddy no 11]

yep, really happy with that, Ireland looked rusty, no doubt will come back better, but ABs were in control from start to finish

The cupboard is a bit bare for Ireland
Sheehan 2 is not replacable
Our backline already has 3 kiwis in it, 2 are up on age and one poser
Our bomb squad had 4 guys 35 or older all well past it
No up and coming props
Our backs coach has apparently failed upwards and our coach is off to the lions
We'll be competitive but will be handing back the world no 1 spot and we'll drop to 4th 5th

[cashead]

yep, really happy with that, Ireland looked rusty, no doubt will come back better, but ABs were in control from start to finish

The cupboard is a bit bare for Ireland
Sheehan 2 is not replacable
Our backline already has 3 kiwis in it, 2 are up on age and one poser
Our bomb squad had 4 guys 35 or older all well past it
No up and coming props
Our backs coach has apparently failed upwards and our coach is off to the lions
We'll be competitive but will be handing back the world no 1 spot and we'll drop to 4th 5th

Yeah, honestly. It didn't occur to me until you mentioned it, but shit, the Irish team is old. Like, old as balls. How many of these guys can you realistically expect to be on the plane to Australia in 2027? Looking at the starting XV on the weekend, let's see:

1. Andrew Porter - 28
2. Ronan Kelleher - 26
3. Finlay Bealham - 33
4. Joe McCarthy - 23
5. James Ryan - 28
6. Tadhg Beirne - 32
7. Josh van der Flier - 31
8. Caelan Doris - 26
9. Jamison Gibson-Park - 32
10. Jack Crowley - 24
11. James Lowe - 32
12. Bundee Aki - 36
13. Garry Ringrose - 29
14. Mack Hansen - 26
15. Hugo Keenan - 28

So that's already just over 1/3 of the starting XV from the weekend, where odds are increasingly against them making it on to the plane to Australia. Beirne, van der Flier are possibilities for sure, but they'll need careful managing. Gibson-Park may make it, but possibly in a similar role to Keven Mealamu in 2015 for the ABs, where he was increasingly phased out from the starting XV over that RWC cycle for the development of Dane Coles as his successor. He's playing incredibly well right now, no doubt about that, but how long can he keep it up? And Aki's going to be 40 at the next RWC. Forget about it.

16. Rob Herring - 34
17. Cian Healy - 37
18. Tom O'Toole - 26
19. Iain Henderson - 32
20. Peter O'Mahony - 35
21. Conor Murray - 35
22. Ciaran Frawley - 26
23. Jamie Osborne - 22

I think the issue is exacerbated here. I'm sure O'Toole is a perfectly cromulent tighthead prop. It's a shame we didn't get a proper look at him, but hey, accidents and injuries happen. But like, fuck me, Healy? That guy's still playing? Murray? O'Mahony? These guys really need to step aside for the sake of building up the next generation of players.

The Irish forwards were beaten in just about every aspect of the game, and the majority of the stats coming out should be of huge concern to Papa Faz. Honestly, I can't help but feel that this Autumn Series should've been used as the start of building up the next set of players, rather that hold on to a bunch of, in sporting terms, geriatrics that are increasingly closer and closer to their use-by dates - if they aren't there already.

[Cameo]

Yeah, that's taken me by surprise. I have been wondering why they are persevering with O'Mahony, but didn't realise Aki is even older and there are a few others in that range. Even VDF and Keenan are older than I thought.

[paddy no 11]

It's definitely part of why Ireland fail at world cups, too many fellas at 32 getting full 4 year contracts and irfu keep playing them even when it's obvious they are past it. Darcy and bod were 2-3 years past it before being replaced. Sexton (38) unable to move playing against nz for 80 minutes etc

[J Dory]

Jamison Gibson-Park was possibly the best player on the ... park ... on Friday. Not showing any signs of decline yet for me.

[cashead]

Sure. My point is, when considering the long-term future of the team, Farrell should be picking between Gibson-Park or Murray to start, and Casey on the bench (or vice versa). Not both. Sticking to a bunch of OAPs like Healy, Murray and O'Mahony will hurt the team in the long run. They've all got 100+ caps, and will be pushing 40 - except for Healy, who would be 41 at the next RWC. How many more caps do they need?

It's an aging team, and the longer the geriatrics are favoured, the more it will end up hurting Irish rugby. How does it benefit guys like Casey and Prendergast, or the guys good enough to make the Emerging Ireland or Wolfhounds teams, when their pathway is then blocked by some creaky old bastards that can maybe 5~10 minutes out of at the test level, where they nevertheless don't do shit?

[J Dory]

I dunno, when have a team of young dudes ever won the RWC?

[cashead]

I'm curious as to how you equate "hmm, maybe start phasing out the OAPs like O'Mahony, Murray and Healy who don't contribute much, and have a snowball's chance in hell of making the world cup" with "youth and youth only, no veterans." Just wondering how you made that leap.

[cashead]

Sam Cane and Mark Tele'a have both been ruled out of the test against France. Meanwhile, Sam Darry's done his knee and is flying home, along with Billy Proctor, who is about to become a dad, and Harry Plummer's decided to get in on the action too and is now injured.

AJ Lam (whom the more observant would have noticed hanging out with the other reserves at the Aviva), Du'Plessis Kirifi and Fabian Holland have all joined the squad.