RugbyRebels

Is his time now up? I doubt that anything will happen until the South Africa game is done so that’s another week we must endure. Gatland simply doesn’t have the same depth of talent he had during his first tenure, but we are lacking any cohesion in defence and attack.

Whilst it’s easy to blame the regions, this squad has a bunch of players from various premiership teams; the regions aren’t the only problem here. There were a number of decent individual performances today, but as a team we we were awful.

But realistically who is available? Would Stan be an improvement? Who else could the WRU get before the six nations? Can we even afford to pay off Gatland and his team?

And this is not just on Gatland. The WRU needs a shake up and the future of Nigel Walker must now be in question.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:17 pm Is his time now up? I doubt that anything will happen until the South Africa game is done so that’s another week we must endure. Gatland simply doesn’t have the same depth of talent he had during his first tenure, but we are lacking any cohesion in defence and attack.

Whilst it’s easy to blame the regions, this squad has a bunch of players from various premiership teams; the regions aren’t the only problem here. There were a number of decent individual performances today, but as a team we we were awful.

But realistically who is available? Would Stan be an improvement? Who else could the WRU get before the six nations? Can we even afford to pay off Gatland and his team?

And this is not just on Gatland. The WRU needs a shake up and the future of Nigel Walker must now be in question.

Either Gatland or Foreshaw or both need to go. Since our defence is the most obviously deficient area, you could argue that Foreshaw would be the first to go.

To an extent it depends on the contract with Gatland - hopefully the WRU have some option to get rid early (but this is the WRU, so who knows).

And if there are any good coaches are out there. If Gatland goes after that SA game we may well end up with a caretaker stepping up from the assistants for the 6N.

But IMO Gatland 2.0 was an expensive mistake from the beginning. (I think his best contribution to Wales was bringing Edwards in and holding on to him for the whole time. Edwards transformed Wales just like he's transformed France.) So for me, I'd like to see him go so that someone with ideas and a recent track record can come in.

The scarlets coach actually won the 6 nations in 2021! He's surely entitled to an unfair dismissal at this point

The re appointment was a shocking decision, we can all coach teams with gethin jenkins and Jamie roberts et al

Realistically someone needs to come in who can do a job like lagisquet done with Portugal

Doubtful ye can afford to ditch gatty, he should walk imo

yes it is time

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:03 pm The scarlets coach actually won the 6 nations in 2021! He's surely entitled to an unfair dismissal at this point

The re appointment was a shocking decision, we can all coach teams with gethin jenkins and Jamie roberts et al

Realistically someone needs to come in who can do a job like lagisquet done with Portugal

Doubtful ye can afford to ditch gatty, he should walk imo

Yep. I was dead against it at the time, and look how it's gone.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:37 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:03 pm The scarlets coach actually won the 6 nations in 2021! He's surely entitled to an unfair dismissal at this point

The re appointment was a shocking decision, we can all coach teams with gethin jenkins and Jamie roberts et al

Realistically someone needs to come in who can do a job like lagisquet done with Portugal

Doubtful ye can afford to ditch gatty, he should walk imo

Yep. I was dead against it at the time, and look how it's gone.

I’m not convinced Privac was the answer either, but I’ll accept that Gatland hasn’t been good for us after the RWC.

Steve Tandy is apparently the bookies favourite. I’m personally not sure if he is head coach material yet and I’d prefer a big hitter, but we are probably going to have some significant financial constraints

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:36 am Steve Tandy is apparently the bookies favourite. I’m personally not sure if he is head coach material yet and I’d prefer a big hitter, but we are probably going to have some significant financial constraints

I could be wrong, but I think Tandy was linked to Wales as coach/ assistant coach in the past, but would have needed buying out of his contract. I dont know how long he has left but presumably some form of compensation would be required, unless he's coming to the end if his contract soon.

With regards to Gatland I think we have to look at where Welsh rugby is now compared to where it was during Gatland's first tenure. We dont have a base of competitive regions now, or a generation of international quality players, so given these constraints, is he the man to elevate the current crop? We need someone to make a cohesive unit out of these players, rather than some good parts being outweighed by the bad. We might need a coach who's used to getting players and teams to punch above their weight, not one used to trying to get the most of already capable players. BUT whoever's in charge, I don't see a repeat of 2007/08 where we lost to Fiji and won the Grand Slam the following year.

I think you’re right, he was linked previously to the defence role IIRC. Possibly when Provac was scouting for his team.

Changing Gatland won’t solve the wide problems. I have a feeling he will chuck in the towel and leave us to it.

I don't believe Tandy is the answer. Our problems go beyond Gatland. One thing that Gatland has done right is to throw in a lot of new caps to see how they perform.


I think we must go through more pain against South Africa, then think about how we can put a team together that will preform. Obviously there is some major problem with our defence coaching. I don't know the solution.

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The wild thing is that Forshaw put together a Sale defence that was well-nigh impregnable. When you signed him, I was cross that he was being lost as an option for England because he was foing that good of a job. What's happened that he's now loathed by the fans?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:43 am The wild thing is that Forshaw put together a Sale defence that was well-nigh impregnable. When you signed him, I was cross that he was being lost as an option for England because he was foing that good of a job. What's happened that he's now loathed by the fans?

Puja

He's had two years to get that well-nigh impregnable defence up and running.

I'm not saying it's definitely his fault. Hard to tell from the outside. My call would be for Gatland to go first.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:43 am The wild thing is that Forshaw put together a Sale defence that was well-nigh impregnable. When you signed him, I was cross that he was being lost as an option for England because he was foing that good of a job. What's happened that he's now loathed by the fans?

Puja

To be fair, I dont think he is loathed, I think he's seen in some quarters as another sign of the decline ( perhaps unfairly to an extent given what he has to work with). Sale was probably a more settled , more mature environment and the gap between Sale and the other teams in the Prem is not huge. That's not the case with Wales, with a number of young and inexperienced players facing stronger opponents.

To be honest, I'm more annoyed about how a coaching team with two former hookers can't apparently stop Wales losing 4 crucial line outs on the frigging bounce. Granted they're not the ones throwing in, but still....

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:43 am The wild thing is that Forshaw put together a Sale defence that was well-nigh impregnable. When you signed him, I was cross that he was being lost as an option for England because he was foing that good of a job. What's happened that he's now loathed by the fans?

Puja

I'd agree with the others; I don't think he is the object of hatred - he has Gatland and Howley ahead of him on that front. Although, given how iconic Edwards was, it's unsurprising that comparisons are being made. Our defence has been pap for a while. How much of that is down to the quality (or size) of the players, or how much is down to the system? A huge criticism of Gatland's first era was that defence was too prominent. Has he shifted away to a more balanced plan, but the defence is struggling to keep up?

I think, one way or another, Gatland is finished. If there is a permanent replacement appointed, he might want his own team, but that depends I suppose how much money the WRU has to play with.

I'm sure we've all played undersized teams at some point or another (except you London nigeria board members) conceding a stone a man just wears you down even if system is good. The welsh backline looked to be the same size as a team from the 90's

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:21 pm I'm sure we've all played undersized teams at some point or another (except you London nigeria board members) conceding a stone a man just wears you down even if system is good. The welsh backline looked to be the same size as a team from the 90's

There are bigger players Gatland could have picked. He can't stop himself from picking a Kiwi, no matter the size. Grady was obviously a loss, but he could have gone with Rogers, Dyer and Nagy.

But, yeah, it did look like men vs boys at times. Which does not make me feel good about Saturday.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 4:07 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:21 pm I'm sure we've all played undersized teams at some point or another (except you London nigeria board members) conceding a stone a man just wears you down even if system is good. The welsh backline looked to be the same size as a team from the 90's

There are bigger players Gatland could have picked. He can't stop himself from picking a Kiwi, no matter the size. Grady was obviously a loss, but he could have gone with Rogers, Dyer and Nagy.

But, yeah, it did look like men vs boys at times. Which does not make me feel good about Saturday.

Yes, losing beard and grady didn't help physically

I think Gats can easily argue he needs to know what he has got before formulating his side for the 6N. But has gone nowhere fast, pinnacle being the wrong sub being sent on. He seems checked out and would not surprise me if he just says sod it and goes back to NZ

But as for firing, who else is there to replace him and where would this stream of talented players come from. Gonna be tough sledding for a couple years regardless who is in there

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... k-30419870

Is this just click bait or does Gatland really see something in Joe Hawkins at FH? Let's bring in someone who has barely played a position and get him starting for Wales. Mad genius move or just mad

newgalesurf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:42 pm https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... k-30419870

Is this just click bait or does Gatland really see something in Joe Hawkins at FH? Let's bring in someone who has barely played a position and get him starting for Wales. Mad genius move or just mad

Bringing him back to play centre would be fine, for fly half it's betting on a double-six. Probably made up news from WoL, although there's a grain of plausibility in it, given how much Gatland liked him.

Do we have any doubts that Gatland is desperate?

Playing Blair Murray at full back is pretty desperate. After last week Costello and Bevan at half back does not exactly fill me with confidence. I still remember how stumbling Hathaway's first game was.

I had hoped our wild experiments would be over this year, but although we have some newer players who can perform well at times, we are a long way from having a settled first choice team. Bringing in players from overseas does not guarantee success, but if ever there was a time to suspend the rule on selecting certain players who have moved abroad it is now. This rule has obviously not produced a robust game in Wales. I had thought 2024 would be our last chance, but the situation is so bad something dramatic has to be done in 2025.

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Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 5:25 pm

newgalesurf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:42 pm https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... k-30419870

Is this just click bait or does Gatland really see something in Joe Hawkins at FH? Let's bring in someone who has barely played a position and get him starting for Wales. Mad genius move or just mad

Bringing him back to play centre would be fine, for fly half it's betting on a double-six. Probably made up news from WoL, although there's a grain of plausibility in it, given how much Gatland liked him.

He’s a talented player and could do well at fly half but I’d much rather he had a spell in the position. He would make for an interesting inside centre for us, if fit and on form.

Can we afford to sack Gatland? Who knows? This is as clear as mud:

However, perhaps crucially on a day when the Union announced losses of £7.5m in 2024, finances will have no bearing - with the perception that the WRU cannot afford to get rid of Gatland, who is contracted through to the 2027 World Cup, being "not correct".

"Not in the whole scheme of things, if it's the right decision we will work through that decision," said Tierney. "That (any break clause in Gatland's contract) is not relevant.

"Any decision will not be driven by cost and that is confidential from somebody's personal contract."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-30441175

Gwyn Jones is recommending Howley as an interim coach to cover the six nations.

Since the review won’t conclude until just before Christmas, we won’t have a proper coach before the six nations but h the idea of howley doesn’t inspire me that much.

But Gwyn Jone shas been anti Gatland for years so he’s hardly objective

I dont blame him for everything

I do blame him for not thinking about the future in his first spell
I do blame him for his intransigence on players such as Carre, Morris, Parry to some extent - there will be others
I do blame him for not contacting Feyi Waboso at all, it may not have changed his mind, but we will never know
I do blame him for evidently not being able to change approach or style meaningfully - one up carriers, turgid attack and a defence that has gone backwards
I do blame him for surrounding himself with coaches who are failing our players - time for a clear out
I do blame him for selections