RugbyRebels

Ireland three best players are Kiwi's... cant be right can it? Birth, parent or grandparent for me... not economic migrants. Wales just as guilty, Parkes and Holloholo of recent vintage. Both now live in New Zealand and moved there asap after career ended

It's not so bad now that 5 years' residence is needed (instead of 3, which allowed Parkes and Aki and many others to be eligible).

https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... ions/reg-8

I would also make it a requirement that the player holds a passport/is a citizen of the adopted country (although I know many disagree with me ). My feeling is that a player should only play for a country if they honestly would describe themselves as Welsh, Irish etc, not just that they're working there for a few years. If they took the step of becoming a citizen it would help indicate this. Ultimately I think it's wrong to use players who are simply going to go back home the moment their test career is over.

There’s a lot of overseas players in all of the home nations teams. There should be a longer term affiliation with a country in order to play for them, or a blood relative that’s moderately recent (grandparent I’m comfortable with).

But whilst everyone else does it I won’t object to wales benefitting where possible

i agree with Sandy dragon. Got to be more than coming somewhere to work.

Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:08 am Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

Irish citizen because he plays rugby for Ireland.... Means nothing.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:38 am

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:08 am Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

Irish citizen because he plays rugby for Ireland.... Means nothing.

No point in looking at Aki's situation now - he's been playing for Connacht for almost 11 years - that makes him Irish enough. But him playing for Ireland in 2017 was bad.

agree its water under the bridge, using his Irish citizenship as an argument is a joke though

You've gott have some latitude for residency though. Otherwise you end up with risible situations where someone moved to a country aged 8, was developed in that country and lived their whole life there, but isn't eligible while some Kiwi who's never even visited is eligible because his mum was born there and emigrated age 2.

I think the balance isn't too far off. If you've lived somewhere for 5 years, I think you've got a reasonable argument that you can call it home at that point. Personally, I'm in favour of not allowing grandparents, or having them used as a reduction for residency. Birthplace, parent, or 6 years residency, or 4 if you've got a grandparent from there. Wouldn't be perfect, but no system's going to eliminate all of the chancers.

Puja

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:08 am Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

It must be infuriating to the Irish lads that come through the system only to be ousted by an unwanted Kiwi.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:38 am

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:08 am Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

Irish citizen because he plays rugby for Ireland.... Means nothing.

Well the same as anyone comes here to work and decides they're staying

Weren't really in love with some bald 2nd rower 10 years ago, married a Welsh one and had kids etc

Yep.
Using citizenship is silly IMO, as it's different rules for different nations. IIRC Qatar, Malta, Cypress, for example, will give citizenship to anyone who asks if they're a large enough bank account; whilst Germany essentially never grant nationality; France have different rules depending on where you're coming from.
So long as residency is longer than 1 standard rugby contract, and longer than 1 RWC cycle, then I'm not too bothered by it.
Switching nationality needs to be allowed for rugby to continue in the olympics - so I want that to be as difficult as the IOC will allow (which has to be less than 1 olympic cycle, so 3 years it is)

The "best" solution I've seen is something like 6 years of residency. Every grandparent from that country takes a year off that.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:34 pm

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:38 am

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:08 am Bundee is an Irish citizen now

In general I agree with sentiment here, we'd win nothing without jgp

Lowe is painful

Irish citizen because he plays rugby for Ireland.... Means nothing.

Well the same as anyone comes here to work and decides they're staying

Weren't really in love with some bald 2nd rower 10 years ago, married a Welsh one and had kids etc

Catch 22 - Irish citizenship came on the strength of rugby. Not having a go at Ireland, made the same noise when Uilisi Hollohollo and Hadleigh Parkes etc were in the same boat. CJ Stander another, which part of Ireland is he living in now?

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:39 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:34 pm

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:38 am

Irish citizen because he plays rugby for Ireland.... Means nothing.

Well the same as anyone comes here to work and decides they're staying

Weren't really in love with some bald 2nd rower 10 years ago, married a Welsh one and had kids etc

Catch 22 - Irish citizenship came on the strength of rugby. Not having a go at Ireland, made the same noise when Uilisi Hollohollo and Hadleigh Parkes etc were in the same boat. CJ Stander another, which part of Ireland is he living in now?

The reason I mention him is he's the exception and become a citizen

Maybe everyone who wants to play rugby for another country should have to at least sign papers? Or make some commitment even if non binding?

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:39 pm Yep.
Using citizenship is silly IMO, as it's different rules for different nations. IIRC Qatar, Malta, Cypress, for example, will give citizenship to anyone who asks if they're a large enough bank account; whilst Germany essentially never grant nationality; France have different rules depending on where you're coming from.
So long as residency is longer than 1 standard rugby contract, and longer than 1 RWC cycle, then I'm not too bothered by it.
Switching nationality needs to be allowed for rugby to continue in the olympics - so I want that to be as difficult as the IOC will allow (which has to be less than 1 olympic cycle, so 3 years it is)

The "best" solution I've seen is something like 6 years of residency. Every grandparent from that country takes a year off that.

In the cases where nations have a slow or difficult process you could show that you've been in the application process for x years. Although the fact that some nations are more choosy with citizenship is part of the national identity IMO, so not irrelevant to eligibility.

I like that 6 years minus 1 per grandparent thing (maybe minus 2 per parent?). It always feels like one granny is not enough.

Of course you still get the weird cases like that true Welshman Taine Plumtree. Just got to accept it!

Residency has always been a shit way to qualify. From the outset, they *at a minimum* should apply for citizenship within six months if they are to be considered for national honours. And there needs to be a way of differentiating the home nations. Otherwise, the richer countries will always have an advantage over the poorer countries. Perhaps some way of tagging a player that says, you're ours until we say otherwise. Birthplace and parents/grandparents should take equal priority. In the event of a dispute between a country of birth and parental heritage rights, only then should the player decide. In which case someone born in Wales, with non-Welsh parents, the player can decide between Wales and the birthplace(s) of his parents, not some carpetbagging formula that lets ££££ speak.