RugbyRebels

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS vs SARACENS
Gallagher Premiership, Round 17
Saturday 17 May, 2025
cinch Stadium at Franklin’s Gardens
Kick-off: 3.05pm

15 James Ramm
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall (c)
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tom Litchfield
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison – 50th Saints appearance
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Tom Lockett
6 Alex Coles
7 Josh Kemeny
8 Henry Pollock

Replacements:
16 Craig Wright
17 Tarek Haffar
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Ed Prowse
20 Angus Scott-Young
21 Jonny Weimann
22 Jake Garside
23 Tom Seabrook


Saracens Men team to play Northampton Saints:

1 Eroni Mawi
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Fergus Burke
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Alex Goode

Replacements:

16 Theo Dan
17 Phil Brantingham
18 Alec Clarey
19 Hugh Tizard
20 Theo McFarland
21 Andy Onyeama-Christie
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Angus Hall

Brantingham back!

Saints side still looking beset with injuries then. Hopefully they get a few back before the final.

More time for Maro- obviously needs the miles in his legs!!

He'll almost certainly play the full 80 too.

Utterly ridiculous and inexcusable that he wasnt stood down last week.

This is going to be a nervous watch. If Smith or Mitchell pick up an injury we can kiss goodbye to the final next weekend.

Augustus being on the injured list is far from ideal - hopefully nothing serious. James is a HIA so hopefully will be available next week.

Langdon off with what seemed to be a stinger, Ramm off with a more concerning looking lower limb injury, Pollock looked uncomfortable on his hip towards the end of the half and Mayanavanua seemed to have a knee/ankle issue. Excellent. We really can't afford to lose any of them, especially Ramm.

Fin Smith needs to stop carrying too - protect yourself boy!

Sarries have clearly come with a plan to be hugely aggressive, particularly at the breakdown, knowing that Saints will be a bit down on physicality with next week pending.

That's a yellow card for a tackle in the air, Pearce thinks it's relevant that dingwell tried to make a pass wtf

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 4:50 pm That's a yellow card for a tackle in the air, Pearce thinks it's relevant that dingwell tried to make a pass wtf

That was an inexplicably bad decision. Having decided it was foul play, the obvious conclusion was that a penalty try should have been awarded.

The officials gave one back to Saints with the final play being waved on despite what looked like a very obvious forward pass in the build up.

Saints will be mightily relieved to have got the win but they took a right old battering.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 5:09 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 4:50 pm That's a yellow card for a tackle in the air, Pearce thinks it's relevant that dingwell tried to make a pass wtf

That was an inexplicably bad decision. Having decided it was foul play, the obvious conclusion was that a penalty try should have been awarded.

The officials gave one back to Saints with the final play being waved on despite what looked like a very obvious forward pass in the build up.

Saints will be mightily relieved to have got the win but they took a right old battering.

Yeah agreed. Was a penalty try for the Goode tackle in the air. The player throws it back inside because he's being tackled into touch (illegally).

Yeah very odd explanation that the offload which was almost definitely initiated because of the tackle was the reason not to award the pen try.

The forward pass in the final try was also weird in that it looked more forward from the rearward camera angle than it did the in line one.

Good to get the win to build a bit of momentum into next week, but we really need the Ramm and Langdon injuries to be minor knocks. Horrible injury list in the back 3, and although Wright is quality at hooker there's a fair drop down to Walker.

That was probably the quietest game I've seen Pollock involved in so far.

Augustus confirmed unavailable for next weekend, Coles also a doubt. Joy.

This has been a dreadful season for injuries

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 6:08 pm Yeah very odd explanation that the offload which was almost definitely initiated because of the tackle was the reason not to award the pen try.

Quite apart from anything else, isn't there a rule with deciding a penalty try where the player committing the illegal action gets treated like they weren't on the pitch? There was one a while back with a player deliberately slapping a ball touch in goal when he could potentially have grounded it, and the penalty try was given because the likelihood of a try is based around "if the illegal act didn't happen", not "if the illegal act didn't happen **and** he did something else instead."

Plus, I think Saints could've got a pen try earlier when Seabrook nearly scored - the ball gets knocked from his hands, as he picks it up, in a tackle by Van Zyl, who is currently lying on the ground at the point he goes for the bsll.

But it does balance out, as that was very definitely a forward pass for the last once, so we got there in the end.

Good result for England and the Lions that - giving the hope that Sarries won't qualify and Maro will actually get to rest for a couple of weeks.

Puja

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 6:08 pm Yeah very odd explanation that the offload which was almost definitely initiated because of the tackle was the reason not to award the pen try.

The forward pass in the final try was also weird in that it looked more forward from the rearward camera angle than it did the in line one.

Good to get the win to build a bit of momentum into next week, but we really need the Ramm and Langdon injuries to be minor knocks. Horrible injury list in the back 3, and although Wright is quality at hooker there's a fair drop down to Walker.

That was probably the quietest game I've seen Pollock involved in so far.

Poor Pollock can't please everyone. When he does something flashy, his ability to do the nitty-gritty is questioned. When he has a hard-grafting, effective game he had a quiet one. The commentator said he was over-shadowed by Earl and co - bollix, IMO. I thought he did exactly what was required of a No 8 in the circumstances of that game, indicating a far more advanced level of rugby intelligence and team ethic than he gets credit for.

I wasn't being critical of Pollock, just notable that it was different from his normal performance.

He'll almost definitely be doing his thing from 8 again against Bordeaux. With Augustus definitely out and Coles apparently in a knee brace and on crutches post match our backrow will probably consist of Scott-Young, Pollock and Kemeny.

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 1:29 pm I wasn't being critical of Pollock, just notable that it was different from his normal performance.

He'll almost definitely be doing his thing from 8 again against Bordeaux. With Augustus definitely out and Coles apparently in a knee brace and on crutches post match our backrow will probably consist of Scott-Young, Pollock and Kemeny.

Pollock was quiet. He cant do a 5 star turn every game and its OK if his opponents play better as the Saracens back row did for much of the game.

Coles injury could have ramifications for England as well as Saints.

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 1:29 pm I wasn't being critical of Pollock, just notable that it was different from his normal performance.

He'll almost definitely be doing his thing from 8 again against Bordeaux. With Augustus definitely out and Coles apparently in a knee brace and on crutches post match our backrow will probably consist of Scott-Young, Pollock and Kemeny.

Pearson?

On the injured list for the Saracens game, though I've no idea what his issue is so it'd certainly be nice to have him back

I can feel myself becoming a bore on this point but how Tom Willis isn't touring with the Lions I don't know. What a player - increasingly difficult to watch a game of rugby without him looking like an 18 year old playing with 16 year olds. He's such a handful in attack. I like Jack Conan but I'd have 100% selected Willis to tour too.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 8:07 pm

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 1:29 pm I wasn't being critical of Pollock, just notable that it was different from his normal performance.

He'll almost definitely be doing his thing from 8 again against Bordeaux. With Augustus definitely out and Coles apparently in a knee brace and on crutches post match our backrow will probably consist of Scott-Young, Pollock and Kemeny.

Pearson?

So keen that he stays fit and shows his potential, I'm a big fan of Pearson and have been throughout. He got to Saints and seemed a bit error-prone but has been good the last few times I watched him pre injury, showing his power in the carry etc. I think on athletic ability he's right up there just needs long term fitness and form as well as to start for Saints which is harder with Pollock now on the scene I guess.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 11:46 am I can feel myself becoming a bore on this point but how Tom Willis isn't touring with the Lions I don't know. What a player - increasingly difficult to watch a game of rugby without him looking like an 18 year old playing with 16 year olds. He's such a handful in attack. I like Jack Conan but I'd have 100% selected Willis to tour too.

I am also becoming a bore - we've got a World Cup draw coming up and we need all the help we can get to avoid another pool of death. I'm happier that Willis is with us over the Lions personally.

Danno wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 12:12 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 11:46 am I can feel myself becoming a bore on this point but how Tom Willis isn't touring with the Lions I don't know. What a player - increasingly difficult to watch a game of rugby without him looking like an 18 year old playing with 16 year olds. He's such a handful in attack. I like Jack Conan but I'd have 100% selected Willis to tour too.

I am also becoming a bore - we've got a World Cup draw coming up and we need all the help we can get to avoid another pool of death. I'm happier that Willis is with us over the Lions personally.

100% this. Hopefully we don’t see any more of our players picked off for the cash grab down under. If Ford or Willis went we’d be really struggling.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 11:46 am I can feel myself becoming a bore on this point but how Tom Willis isn't touring with the Lions I don't know. What a player - increasingly difficult to watch a game of rugby without him looking like an 18 year old playing with 16 year olds. He's such a handful in attack. I like Jack Conan but I'd have 100% selected Willis to tour too.

Indeed. Surely he's a better option than a sixth lock?

Frankly, I'm glad he's with England though. We've got no-one else I want to see tried there, we will definitely need him against Argentina, and it'll give him a chance to really ink his name into the England 8 shirt.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 3:51 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 11:46 am I can feel myself becoming a bore on this point but how Tom Willis isn't touring with the Lions I don't know. What a player - increasingly difficult to watch a game of rugby without him looking like an 18 year old playing with 16 year olds. He's such a handful in attack. I like Jack Conan but I'd have 100% selected Willis to tour too.

Indeed. Surely he's a better option than a sixth lock?

Frankly, I'm glad he's with England though. We've got no-one else I want to see tried there, we will definitely need him against Argentina, and it'll give him a chance to really ink his name into the England 8 shirt.

Puja

Also seeing whether he’s trusted to do 80. I wasn’t sure what to make of his constant shifting around for Earl in the 6 nations, whether Borthwick wasn’t seeing what he wanted or just couldn’t face not having Earl on the pitch.