RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 amIn related news, the Premiership is rebranding from next year, to be officially known as "The Gallagher Prem", on the basis that that's how the young folk speak. Seems risible to me, but hey ho.

Details in The Times this morning, but the Prem rebrand is here - and it's basically that

• Renamed to 'Prem Rugby' (given the last point below, alignment with Champ Rugby would seem 100% coincidental).
• New "intense" orange logo
• A trial of playing matches on Thursday nights
• Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game
• A push for more “big games” at top-class stadiums
• Some of which could take place in the United States
• More use of “away ends”, building on the two-match trial this season
• Employing Deloitte and The Raine Group to draw up plans to restructure the top flight (10 franchises, no relegation with the chance of expansion teams)


IMO:
No problem with the name change - it's a nothingness
No inherent problem with the logo change
Big matches in big stadia is fine (just don't do it at the end of the season when it might be a dead rubber)

Thursday night matches is designed to put me off, but not a deal breaker
Focussing on the combative aspect of the game in the midst of a law-suit around concussion is... brave, I guess. Not sure it sends the right message out there. I'm sure that there's a way to do it right though - whether they will or not remains the question.
Big matches in a foreign country is designed to put me off, but not a deal breaker
"Away fan ends" is designed to put me off, but not a deal breaker
Official death of promotion and relegation - well, that's a really good way to ruin my weekend; I'll see come September, but it's entirely possible that this afternoon will be the last Premiership match I watch.

I suppose the one change I would want is a fixture pattern that makes all players available for all league matches. Best XV v Best XV should be the ultimate goal, IMO. (I don't want club/international clashes and I don't want the competition to be in any way secondary to the European ones.)

All of the proposed tweaks seem trivial in comparison.

I officially hate most of this. It stinks of death by consultant.

I often abbreviate it to Prem when saying or typing it so meh. It's supposed to appeal to the 18-24 demographic who are apparently showing more interest in the game so why not. Worth a go, might help the sport or just be ignored like any other rebranding from a new sponsor would be.

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 12:20 pm I officially hate most of this. It stinks of death by consultant.

"New Coke" but without the addiction

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 12:20 pm I officially hate most of this. It stinks of death by consultant.

I’d love to see what data backing up all this being money worth spending, but what do I know.

Prem by invitation only seems to make a mockery of the Champ, its aspirations and drive for MOS. The Chump maybe.

Not convinced by ‘gladiatorial’ stuff. Skill pffttt

Some of those i can take or leave but i'm in favour of the franchise model.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:18 am Some of those i can take or leave but i'm in favour of the franchise model.

why, out of interest....and by extension, ring fenced from meritocracy?

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 11:04 am

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:18 am Some of those i can take or leave but i'm in favour of the franchise model.

why, out of interest....and by extension, ring fenced from meritocracy?

Well firstly the current model is hardly a glittering success.

I've been impressed by listening to Mark Evans about this, particularly when he references how the NRL in Australia is run. Seems to me its well worth a go.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 12:13 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 11:04 am

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:18 am Some of those i can take or leave but i'm in favour of the franchise model.

why, out of interest....and by extension, ring fenced from meritocracy?

Well firstly the current model is hardly a glittering success.

I've been impressed by listening to Mark Evans about this, particularly when he references how the NRL in Australia is run. Seems to me its well worth a go.

How does it work- genuine q? Who is the franchisor, and what’s the difference to current model? I hear it being bandied about but don’t know what it looks like?
Also, it does imply ring fencing and addition by invite, do you favour that?

Tbf, with msc and PR(L) shares, it’s been a ring fenced franchise league since day 1 and it’s hardly a glittering success.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:24 pm Tbf, with msc and PR(L) shares, it’s been a ring fenced franchise league since day 1 and it’s hardly a glittering success.

Yeah hard to argue with that - plus insane conditions over ground capacity etc that have seen teams kept out in the pre covid years

Interesting interview with the marketing guru behind all of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... y2zplnn1ko

I might not agree with all of his ideas, but I do like that the Prem is belatedly actively thinking about and planning how to attract new fans. For years, it's just been vague hopefulness and disconnected efforts by individual clubs (or selling a chunk of equity to CVC on the basis that they'd grow the game for them through the power of wishful thinking). At least they're actively doing stuff.

Puja

They do know what they are talking about generally, though.

twitchy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 5:32 am

They do know what they are talking about generally, though.

Thank you, hadn't seen any Bill Hicks in ages. Shame he past so young because his take on the last couple of decades would have been side splitting.

'Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game'

This is the worst bit to be honest. They appear to have completely missed the long-overdue move away from massive oafs crashing into each other for 80 minutes towards actually trying to run round people and score tries, albeit 'the prem' itself is being a bit slow to catch on.

New, young supporters will be attracted by pace and skill, not by roiders smashing each other.

R3dders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:34 am 'Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game'

This is the worst bit to be honest. They appear to have completely missed the long-overdue move away from massive oafs crashing into each other for 80 minutes towards actually trying to run round people and score tries, albeit 'the prem' itself is being a bit slow to catch on.

New, young supporters will be attracted by pace and skill, not by roiders smashing each other.

agree totally. Though the worst bit is absolute lack of clarity on whether promotion/relegation is important.

Can they both be the worst bit?
One is simply a terrible idea IMO, the other means that I find a different league (T14) to watch and support

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:50 am Can they both be the worst bit?
One is simply a terrible idea IMO, the other means that I find a different league (T14) to watch and support

Your graphic applies. Equally bad etc etc

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:50 am Can they both be the worst bit?
One is simply a terrible idea IMO, the other means that I find a different league (T14) to watch and support

On a serious note, we have both long been proponents of less 'top tier' sides/sort of super clubs, I think we settled on 8? Or have I utterly misremembered?

R3dders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:34 am 'Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game'

This is the worst bit to be honest. They appear to have completely missed the long-overdue move away from massive oafs crashing into each other for 80 minutes towards actually trying to run round people and score tries, albeit 'the prem' itself is being a bit slow to catch on.

New, young supporters will be attracted by pace and skill, not by roiders smashing each other.

I think you're missing the point they're going for - it's not about focussing on close-quarter boshing, but about the fact that the sport's point of difference is that it is a contact sport. You have pace and skill, but you also have using your body as a missile to wipe somebody out. They can get pace and skill in a lot of sports - this is the only one (well, apart from league) where you're also allowed to grab the fast bloke and haul him to the ground.

It is very easy to be scornful of marketing, but good market research and advertising works.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:30 am

R3dders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:34 am 'Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game'

This is the worst bit to be honest. They appear to have completely missed the long-overdue move away from massive oafs crashing into each other for 80 minutes towards actually trying to run round people and score tries, albeit 'the prem' itself is being a bit slow to catch on.

New, young supporters will be attracted by pace and skill, not by roiders smashing each other.

.

It is very easy to be scornful of marketing, but good market research and advertising works.

Puja

though....if a rugby fan is objecting to it.....then maybe its not such great market research #justsaying. I felt the same, esp on 'gladiatorial'. One man's fish is another man's poisson. My real other objection, as with CHAMP RUGBY, is the amount of cash they are spending on consultants to tell them the bleeding obvious or bleeding crass. I don't mind spending dosh on externals if the value add is substantive....

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:06 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:30 am

R3dders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:34 am 'Marketing to focus on the gladiatorial, physical aspects of the game'

This is the worst bit to be honest. They appear to have completely missed the long-overdue move away from massive oafs crashing into each other for 80 minutes towards actually trying to run round people and score tries, albeit 'the prem' itself is being a bit slow to catch on.

New, young supporters will be attracted by pace and skill, not by roiders smashing each other.

.

It is very easy to be scornful of marketing, but good market research and advertising works.

Puja

though....if a rugby fan is objecting to it.....then maybe its not such great market research #justsaying. I felt the same, esp on 'gladiatorial'. One man's fish is another man's poisson. My real other objection, as with CHAMP RUGBY, is the amount of cash they are spending on consultants to tell them the bleeding obvious or bleeding crass. I don't mind spending dosh on externals if the value add is substantive....

I'm not entirely sure that the people who are already invested enough in rugby to be phenomenal nerds about it on an internet messageboard are the "new young supporters" that the market research is aiming towards. Prioritising keeping the vested interests comfortable is how the English game ended up in the financial death spiral in the first place.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:10 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:06 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:30 am

.

It is very easy to be scornful of marketing, but good market research and advertising works.

Puja

though....if a rugby fan is objecting to it.....then maybe its not such great market research #justsaying. I felt the same, esp on 'gladiatorial'. One man's fish is another man's poisson. My real other objection, as with CHAMP RUGBY, is the amount of cash they are spending on consultants to tell them the bleeding obvious or bleeding crass. I don't mind spending dosh on externals if the value add is substantive....

Prioritising keeping the vested interests comfortable is how the English game ended up in the financial death spiral in the first place.

Puja

I'd say the death spiral is more like absolutely badly managed clubs and paying players more than the game can afford in this country.

Opinions may also differ, and it should be possible to keep the vested interests- do you mean long standing fans- engaged alongside this eager huge volume of young supporters who haven't materialised in decades, surely. One of the reasons the game is in death spiral at grass roots level is volunteers deserting the game in droves. Are these also the shadowy vested interests?

In short, I don't understand what you mean