B&I Lions v Western Force

[Lizard]

The Force are poos. Even a jet-lagged, scratch side should easily account for a team that was nowhere near the playoffs in a comp where everyone makes the playoffs.

[Numbers]

Farrell has siad he'll be starting most of the players new to camp so hopefully you're right about the jet lag, Western Force v Ireland pretty much I expect.

[Galfon]

BiL team:

Daly,
Hansen, Ringrose, Tuipulotu, Lowe
Russell, Williams
Schoeman, Sheehan (c), Furlong
Cummings, McCarthy
Beirne, Van der Flier, Pollock

Reps: Kelleher, Porter, Stuart, Chessum, Conan, Mitchell, Jones, M Smith

Now that Sat / mid-week fixtures are a bit more blurred in terms of need for full-strength v. dirt-track material, not sure if much can be read into this.

( Lenny Lions Sheehan, Ringrose, Lowe, McCarthy and Van der Flier set to make their debuts as starts -
Chessum, Jones, Porter and Stuart similar, from the bench.)

[Puja]

Now that Sat / mid-week fixtures are a bit more blurred in terms of need for full-strength v. dirt-track material, not sure if much can be read into this.

Yeah, it's basically just a mix and match side to get everyone having a game under their belt really, isn't it. Still looks a decent side though - not sure about Daly at 15, but the midfield looks very handy indeed.

Gonna be a weird old tour, given the quality of the pre-Test opposition, as I'm not sure how valuable these games are going to be to selection. I'd imagine Pollock will thrive against this level of opposition, but will that really have any relevance to the Test team, no matter how well he plays?

Puja

[Cameo]

Now that Sat / mid-week fixtures are a bit more blurred in terms of need for full-strength v. dirt-track material, not sure if much can be read into this.

Yeah, it's basically just a mix and match side to get everyone having a game under their belt really, isn't it. Still looks a decent side though - not sure about Daly at 15, but the midfield looks very handy indeed.

Gonna be a weird old tour, given the quality of the pre-Test opposition, as I'm not sure how valuable these games are going to be to selection. I'd imagine Pollock will thrive against this level of opposition, but will that really have any relevance to the Test team, no matter how well he plays?

Puja

Hasn't it been a long time since most of the pre test opposition is much of a test? This seems no easier a match than many openers I have seen and tougher than most.

It's always the case of people judging how good a player is in an easy win, and then applying that to a completely different situation.

[Tuco Ramirez]

The ARFU have a duty to make these games worthwhile, its nonsense that the Aussie squad by and large cannot play. If they continue in this vein then dont go there on tour in future, its that simple. France i am sure would take their place in the schedule.

[Lizard]

No, it’s Australia’s job to try to win the series. Just be grateful this isn’t the ‘80s and they’re not lining up against Queensland B or New South Wales Country.

[Tuco Ramirez]

so why did they have previous discussions around this then?

[Cameo]

so why did they have previous discussions around this then?

Do we know what agreement those discussions led to? If Australia commited to releasing their test squad for all warmuo games, they are clearly in breach. That would seem a very weird thing to do though given they are playing Fiji next week. Basically we would be saying the underdog has to hamper their preparation to assist the favourite.

I want (some) strong opposition but this argument gets tedious. There is always a mix. The Lions should at least wait until they have won a game before complaining about the weakness of their opponents.

[Puja]

The ARFU have a duty to make these games worthwhile, its nonsense that the Aussie squad by and large cannot play. If they continue in this vein then dont go there on tour in future, its that simple. France i am sure would take their place in the schedule.

The problem is the shortening of the tour. If there was an extra week or two, then I'd be right there with you that the test players should be playing. However, with preparation time being so important to modern rugby complexities and with them having their own warm-up fixture against Fiji on 6th, it'd be compromising their camp to have players out with their clubs the week before.

Realities of modern rugby really - we're lucky the Lions gets the time in the calendar that it does.

Puja

[jngf]

Now that Sat / mid-week fixtures are a bit more blurred in terms of need for full-strength v. dirt-track material, not sure if much can be read into this.

Yeah, it's basically just a mix and match side to get everyone having a game under their belt really, isn't it. Still looks a decent side though - not sure about Daly at 15, but the midfield looks very handy indeed.

Gonna be a weird old tour, given the quality of the pre-Test opposition, as I'm not sure how valuable these games are going to be to selection. I'd imagine Pollock will thrive against this level of opposition, but will that really have any relevance to the Test team, no matter how well he plays?

Puja

Alongside Itoje not featuring at all, the selection of Pollock here really caught the eye - I’m open minded to see how it goes but I feel it’s certainly a gamble

[Spiffy]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

[jngf]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

My problem with the this is Beirne and Chessum are very good locks but rather less effective as blindside flankers imo ( 3rd lineout option notwithstanding). Only taking Conan as the specialist 8 looks increasingly bizarre.

[paddy no 11]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

My problem with the this is Beirne and Chessum are very good locks but rather less effective as blindside flankers imo ( 3rd lineout option notwithstanding). Only taking Conan as the specialist 8 looks increasingly bizarre.

My issue is I recall bernie as an excellent 8 for Scarlets but not as a 6 really

Now my memory could be wrong of his time at the Scarlets too

[Spiffy]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

My problem with the this is Beirne and Chessum are very good locks but rather less effective as blindside flankers imo ( 3rd lineout option notwithstanding). Only taking Conan as the specialist 8 looks increasingly bizarre.

My issue is I recall bernie as an excellent 8 for Scarlets but not as a 6 really

Now my memory could be wrong of his time at the Scarlets too

You are right - he was an outstanding 8 in his Wales stint. Since then he has proved to be a very good 6 too. I think there has to be a place for Beirne somewhere in the test team. It might well be at 6 with the concept of getting the best players on the pitch and finding a back row with better balance.

[Tuco Ramirez]

so why did they have previous discussions around this then?

Do we know what agreement those discussions led to? If Australia commited to releasing their test squad for all warmuo games, they are clearly in breach. That would seem a very weird thing to do though given they are playing Fiji next week. Basically we would be saying the underdog has to hamper their preparation to assist the favourite.

I want (some) strong opposition but this argument gets tedious. There is always a mix. The Lions should at least wait until they have won a game before complaining about the weakness of their opponents.

The British & Irish Lions have issued a warning to Rugby Australia, stating that their agreement stipulates that Test players must be released to play in tour fixtures leading up to the Test series. Lions chief executive Ben Calveley emphasised that this is the expectation, and the Lions want to ensure their players are "battle-hardened" for the Test matches. Australia's coach, Joe Schmidt, had been holding back players to prevent injury, but the Lions are pushing for the release of these players.
Lions are adamant that Test players must be released for these fixtures, as it's crucial for preparing for the Test series.

While the Lions haven't specified the exact consequences, they hold significant commercial power, and the issue is a serious one.
https://www.cityam.com/will-british-and ... ility-row/

[Cameo]

so why did they have previous discussions around this then?

Do we know what agreement those discussions led to? If Australia commited to releasing their test squad for all warmuo games, they are clearly in breach. That would seem a very weird thing to do though given they are playing Fiji next week. Basically we would be saying the underdog has to hamper their preparation to assist the favourite.

I want (some) strong opposition but this argument gets tedious. There is always a mix. The Lions should at least wait until they have won a game before complaining about the weakness of their opponents.

The British & Irish Lions have issued a warning to Rugby Australia, stating that their agreement stipulates that Test players must be released to play in tour fixtures leading up to the Test series. Lions chief executive Ben Calveley emphasised that this is the expectation, and the Lions want to ensure their players are "battle-hardened" for the Test matches. Australia's coach, Joe Schmidt, had been holding back players to prevent injury, but the Lions are pushing for the release of these players.
Lions are adamant that Test players must be released for these fixtures, as it's crucial for preparing for the Test series.

While the Lions haven't specified the exact consequences, they hold significant commercial power, and the issue is a serious one.
https://www.cityam.com/will-british-and ... ility-row/

Schmidt then said the agreement didn't say everyone must be released. I suspect it was somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, the Force team doesn't look too bad. Couls be stronger but definitely better than some the Lions have faced in openers.

[Oakboy]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

I'd assume that picking a back row against Australia would ideally include some heavy duty carrying, a serious lineout presence, some jackalling threat and (maybe most important) real pace. Who that includes and in what shirt is debatable. The pace factor might be best presented by Pollock but I can't see him getting the 7 shirt unless Curry is at 6. Maybe, he's the quickest and an experiment to test him at 8 seems reasonable, especially if one of Beirne/Chessum ends up at 6. Of course, had Farrell taken Willis for the 8 shirt, the balance might have been different. Curry, VDF and Willis with Pollock and Beirne/Chessum on the bench might have worked.

[Tuco Ramirez]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

I'd assume that picking a back row against Australia would ideally include some heavy duty carrying, a serious lineout presence, some jackalling threat and (maybe most important) real pace. Who that includes and in what shirt is debatable. The pace factor might be best presented by Pollock but I can't see him getting the 7 shirt unless Curry is at 6. Maybe, he's the quickest and an experiment to test him at 8 seems reasonable, especially if one of Beirne/Chessum ends up at 6. Of course, had Farrell taken Willis for the 8 shirt, the balance might have been different. Curry, VDF and Willis with Pollock and Beirne/Chessum on the bench might have worked.

Morgan?

[Oakboy]

The most interesting selection is Beirne at 6. Lions back row positions were probably the most competitive area before the tour but I think Farrell got it wrong in including all of VDF/Curry/Pollock/Morgan/Earl instead of at least one large and powerful carrier. Good chance of Beirne/Chessum in the test team 6 shirt?

I'd assume that picking a back row against Australia would ideally include some heavy duty carrying, a serious lineout presence, some jackalling threat and (maybe most important) real pace. Who that includes and in what shirt is debatable. The pace factor might be best presented by Pollock but I can't see him getting the 7 shirt unless Curry is at 6. Maybe, he's the quickest and an experiment to test him at 8 seems reasonable, especially if one of Beirne/Chessum ends up at 6. Of course, had Farrell taken Willis for the 8 shirt, the balance might have been different. Curry, VDF and Willis with Pollock and Beirne/Chessum on the bench might have worked.

Morgan?

Possibly. You probably know him better than me. I have trouble deciding how good he is in the current Welsh team. Would you play him ahead of VDF?

[Lizard]

Does the Lions management realise that the Force hasn’t actually got any test quality players (ok, Nic White maybe).

And they should be careful what they wish for. I remember 2005 when NZ put out the most stacked Māori side in history and cleaned O’Driscoll’s men up quite easily. Imagine a “warm-up” against this lot:

15 Leon MacDonald
14 Rico Gear
13 Rui Tupoki
12 Luke McAlister
11 Caleb Ralph
10 David Hill
9 Piri Weepu
8 Angus MacDonald
7 Marty Holah
6 Jono Gibbes (c)
5 Sean Hohneck
4 Ross Filipo
3 Carl Hayman
2 Corey Flynn
1 Deacon Manu

[paddy no 11]

Does the Lions management realise that the Force hasn’t actually got any test quality players (ok, Nic White maybe).

And they should be careful what they wish for. I remember 2005 when NZ put out the most stacked Māori side in history and cleaned O’Driscoll’s men up quite easily. Imagine a “warm-up” against this lot:

15 Leon MacDonald
14 Rico Gear
13 Rui Tupoki
12 Luke McAlister
11 Caleb Ralph
10 David Hill
9 Piri Weepu
8 Angus MacDonald
7 Marty Holah
6 Jono Gibbes (c)
5 Sean Hohneck
4 Ross Filipo
3 Carl Hayman
2 Corey Flynn
1 Deacon Manu

Why didn't you spell rua tipoki properly you ignorant wanker, I thought this was something you believed in. Cretin

[Danno]

Blimey, it's savage outside the EMB

[Mr Mwenda]

Seems the Force are a challenge enough for now.

[Mikey Brown]

Blimey, it's savage outside the EMB

Seems Cashead knows Paddy’s login.