RugbyRebels

WRU's expected 'optimal solution' as board to vote and tensions rise
The likely outcome from the upcoming consultation is a reduction to two professional clubs.

The Welsh Rugby Union are expected to push forward with plans to reduce the number of professional clubs in Wales to two, WalesOnline understands.

At a WRU board meeting later this month, the executive will propose what it sees as the "optimal" new structure for the professional game. If the WRU board agrees, a formal consultation process will begin with key stakeholders, including the four professional clubs - Cardiff, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets - along with the official supporters groups, the Welsh Rugby Players' Association and a selection of past and current players.

The WRU will hope to gain consensus during the consultation period, which will last until October. WalesOnline first revealed the WRU's desire to transform Welsh rugby back in May and things are now moving into a critical period.

While the current direction of travel is towards two teams - one based in the east and one in the west - that does not mean things won't change over the next couple of months. Sign up to Inside Welsh rugby on Substack to get exclusive news stories and insight from behind the scenes in Welsh rugby.

The WRU are doing all they can to fend off any potential legal challenges that come their way as a result of pushing through such a radical and painful change.

If all parties cannot agree the make-up of new teams amongst themselves, the WRU have plans to appoint an independent panel and put the licences out to tender, based on a set of criteria. The Ospreys and Scarlets remain publicly defiant about their independent futures, with the former pushing ahead with St Helen's redevelopment plans and the latter announcing new investors last week.

The tense situation has been magnified this month, with Carmarthenshire-based politicians and a Scarlets' supporters' group objecting to the Ospreys' stadium plans. The Scarlets' new US investors, House of Luxury, have also said they are not considering any form of merger.

What could prevent the WRU from reaching a compromise and settling on three teams instead of two is the United Rugby Championship does not want an uneven number, while the Gallagher Premiership would not entertain anything above two Welsh clubs in a potential Anglo-Welsh league.

While the end result is still uncertain, what is certain is that Welsh rugby is about to be turned on its head in a similar manner to what former CEO David Moffett did back in 2003 with the inception of regional rugby.

If a cull were to happen there have been suggestions in some quarters the WRU would prefer the remaining two clubs to be based in Cardiff and Swansea but current CEO Abi Tierney categorically denied they had reached that conclusion in a press conference this week.

There are some within the upper echelons of Welsh rugby who would prefer an aggressive tiered-funding model where two clubs would be funded to a far greater extend than the remaining two.

But while this would appease some existing supporters there's a feeling it will not solve Welsh rugby's underlying issues - namely a lack of financial clout when it comes to competing with the stronger sides and a lack of talent in the professional game.

If the WRU push forward with two clubs the contracts at the four professional clubs will be honoured but many of those players will be expected to turn out regularly in Super Rygbi Cymru which will receive greater investment.

From Wails OnSlime https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... f7296caae3

Welsh rugby committing suicide. Fans will disappear. Development will be halved.

Make two development regions, see if that works before taking this irreversible step.

Madness.

Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 1:01 pm Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 1:01 pm Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

The thinking here is engagement I think, if they don't play a few games further afield then they are at risk of alienating some of the potential supporters I suppose if they don't feel like they are inclusive, the games played at the Brewery Field have been successful games with good crowds (the pitch is not up to standard but that's another story).

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 1:01 pm Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

Tribalism.

If the Dragons and Cardiff blues merge, with home games solely in Cardiff, I won’t support the new team. It’s basically Cardiff and they can f@ck off. We’ve seen this already with the fraction of the super clubs and the loss of the Celtic Warriors.

But if a new side can be seen to embrace the entire region, then it might work. It might keep some supporters engaged and not leave wide swathes of wales being disenfranchised from pro rugby.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 14, 2025 7:57 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 1:01 pm Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

Tribalism.

If the Dragons and Cardiff blues merge, with home games solely in Cardiff, I won’t support the new team. It’s basically Cardiff and they can f@ck off. We’ve seen this already with the fraction of the super clubs and the loss of the Celtic Warriors.

But if a new side can be seen to embrace the entire region, then it might work. It might keep some supporters engaged and not leave wide swathes of wales being disenfranchised from pro rugby.

Would you genuinely support a merged team if it played some of its games at Rodney Parade though?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 14, 2025 8:03 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 14, 2025 7:57 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

Tribalism.

If the Dragons and Cardiff blues merge, with home games solely in Cardiff, I won’t support the new team. It’s basically Cardiff and they can f@ck off. We’ve seen this already with the fraction of the super clubs and the loss of the Celtic Warriors.

But if a new side can be seen to embrace the entire region, then it might work. It might keep some supporters engaged and not leave wide swathes of wales being disenfranchised from pro rugby.

Would you genuinely support a merged team if it played some of its games at Rodney Parade though?

Puja

If it were genuinely a new entity representing the whole of east wales and played at RP then yes. That was the concept behind regionalisation and whilst some supporters will never abandon their clubs, enough would feel a connection to the pro team for their region. Ospreys managed a decent fist of it.

I can virtually guarantee that Gwent participation on a Cardiff based entity will be practically zero. Which ain’t great as Gwent has the most active rugby clubs in wales.

Hope this was a windup. Dragons to buy Cardiff and become Cardiff. Sounds more ridiculous the more I say it.

Just scrap the whole stupid mess of regions

From Wales ONline

WRU to announce plan for cut to two teams as seismic full details emerge
Welsh rugby is set for a radical change not seen since 2003 as details of the WRU's proposal become clear
The WRU will propose a cut to two teams in a major change to the sport in Wales
The WRU will propose a cut to two teams in a major change to the sport in Wales(Image: Huw Evans Picture Agency)
The Welsh Rugby Union is to officially announce its intention to cut the number of professional teams in Wales from four to two and assume significant control of the remaining sides.

WRU director of rugby and elite performance Dave Reddin is the key author of what the WRU views as the optimal structure for Welsh rugby. It includes a reduction to two teams in what is a seismic change in the Welsh rugby landscape.

The WRU will honour all current player contracts prior to May 20, 2025 for Welsh-qualified players.

Article continues below
Each club will be made up of a men's team and a women's team while, as exclusively reported by WalesOnline last month, a new centre of excellence is in the pipeline.

It is not yet clear whether the two surviving clubs will be any of the existing four or if two brand new entities will be created. This is the WRU's optimal solution but technically this could change over the next couple of months, with the four regions determined to fight for their futures and urge the union to consider alternative solutions during a six-week consultation process.

Both men's teams will have a squad size of 50 players each and playing budgets of £7.8m.

Article continues below
The focus will be on Welsh-qualified players, with the number of overseas talent reduced, while there will be significant investment into the coaching teams and the pathway.

In a radical change individual club academies will get scrapped and a men's national academy will be created, supported by player development centres for players between the ages of 14-18 supported by Super Rygbi Cymru clubs.

The WRU also hope to create a national campus on two sites initially before a brand new site is completed with up to 400 players and staff based there.

The campus it will be home to the:

-Men's and women's national teams and staff

- Men's and women's professional clubs and staff

- Men's and women's national academies

In another radical shift the financial model underpinning the professional game will be turned on its head.

The WRU will directly fund all rugby costs in the two professional clubs in the hope of improved alignment.

On top of this, the professional clubs would operate under licence from the WRU, giving owners and investors full responsibility for all commercial operations.

The WRU also hope to resurrect the national academy which will include year-round world class training facilities at the national campus which would create greater synergy and alignment with the professional clubs and the national team.

It will also include world class coaching and S&C staff.

They also plan to pour significant investment into an improved Super Rygbi Cymru competition, which will see an increase in the salary cap, an improvement in coaching and more exposure.

The SRC clubs will also be better aligned to player development centres and local schools. On top of this, the development centres for boys between the ages of 14-18 will have full geographical coverage of Wales.

The two women's clubs will boast squads of 40 players made up predominantly of Welsh players but they will be targeting a limited number of world class overseas stars. Both sides will be supported by a national academy and PDC network.

The WRU will also propose establishing a senior women's domestic competition to underpin the Celtic Challenge in much the same way the SRC supports the professional men's game. There will also be a players development centre for the women's game.

This will be done in two phases with the first consisting of moving to two professional clubs with aligned rugby leadership along with contracting of players and staff. There will also be central national academies.

Phase two will see a transition to national campus operations and greater centralisation.

The WRU hope to have the new structure for the professional game in place in time for 2027/28 season at the latest.

A formal consultation process will begin this week where the WRU will enter discussions with the four existing professional clubs - Cardiff, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets, along with the supporter groups including a panel of 100 fans and the Welsh Rugby Players Association.


The WRU will not announce where the two professional men's teams will be based as of yet.

You just know that if the WRU have decided it is the right answer, it's the wrong answer.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Tue Aug 19, 2025 5:10 pm You just know that if the WRU have decided it is the right answer, it's the wrong answer.

This is so so so wrong.

On the positive side, they may have just killed Welsh rugby but at least they have a nice hotel.

Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:32 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 1:01 pm Two teams will seriously reduce our chances internationally. Having two teams permanently based on one location each would also be a disaster.

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

The thinking here is engagement I think, if they don't play a few games further afield then they are at risk of alienating some of the potential supporters I suppose if they don't feel like they are inclusive, the games played at the Brewery Field have been successful games with good crowds (the pitch is not up to standard but that's another story).

why is the pitch not up to standard?

I'm still hoping this catastrophic plan is just a bargaining position to force the clubs to accept a more sensible 2+2 (or similar) restructuring. I can dream.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 8:49 am

Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:32 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

Genuine question - why does the permanent base make it worse? Would a team that moves around a region and never has a chance to have season ticket holders or regulars not be a beggar's muddle that nobody would support?

Puja

The thinking here is engagement I think, if they don't play a few games further afield then they are at risk of alienating some of the potential supporters I suppose if they don't feel like they are inclusive, the games played at the Brewery Field have been successful games with good crowds (the pitch is not up to standard but that's another story).

why is the pitch not up to standard?

Poor drainage.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Tue Aug 19, 2025 5:10 pm You just know that if the WRU have decided it is the right answer, it's the wrong answer.

This is deeply depressing. We are officially on a level with Scotland and Italy who have won sod all for decades. This might fix the immediate financial situation but let’s be fair long term it’s ugly.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 12:20 pm I'm still hoping this catastrophic plan is just a bargaining position to force the clubs to accept a more sensible 2+2 (or similar) restructuring. I can dream.

That’s a huge gamble. Bordering reckless to let it go this far in such a way.

Here's an interesting point. The proposed St Helens development is for an 8K capacity ground. Is that really enough for a team representing West Wales in Euro competitions?

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 4:47 pm Here's an interesting point. The proposed St Helens development is for an 8K capacity ground. Is that really enough for a team representing West Wales in Euro competitions?

At current supporter numbers or where we would like them to be? I suspect PyS is the preferred ground for the western team.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 3:25 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 12:20 pm I'm still hoping this catastrophic plan is just a bargaining position to force the clubs to accept a more sensible 2+2 (or similar) restructuring. I can dream.

That’s a huge gamble. Bordering reckless to let it go this far in such a way.

Agreed, but given what the current story is, this is as positive an interpretation as I can make of it.

If my wishful thinking is wrong, Welsh rugby is screwed. We'll never recover from a double amputation like this.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 9:51 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 3:25 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 12:20 pm I'm still hoping this catastrophic plan is just a bargaining position to force the clubs to accept a more sensible 2+2 (or similar) restructuring. I can dream.

That’s a huge gamble. Bordering reckless to let it go this far in such a way.

Agreed, but given what the current story is, this is as positive an interpretation as I can make of it.

If my wishful thinking is wrong, Welsh rugby is screwed. We'll never recover from a double amputation like this.

I'm trying to be optimistic. But I'm really struggling. Long term, I feel that this will hurt us badly and leave us at the same level as Scotland and Italy. That might seem appealing now, but we have lost all ambition. Four pro teams with a national academy led to our best era since the 1970s. It wasnt perfect and we had some real peaks and troughs in that period, but you can argue with four grand slams and another 2 championship wins. From 2008, all of that was produced by products of the regions and academies, together with the national academy.

If we have to focus on one team and keep the others on life support for a while then so be it. But once these teams are gone, they are gone. Plus the damage to supports will be immense. I wont support a team that looks like a Cardiff team. I'm not alone in that. Unless these are genuine regional teams that can properly cover the regional area then it will just alienate people.

Even worse, if our regions dont win anything and Wales dont perform that well, then what's next? There's no room to adapt.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 10:08 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 9:51 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 3:25 pm
That’s a huge gamble. Bordering reckless to let it go this far in such a way.

Agreed, but given what the current story is, this is as positive an interpretation as I can make of it.

If my wishful thinking is wrong, Welsh rugby is screwed. We'll never recover from a double amputation like this.

I'm trying to be optimistic. But I'm really struggling. Long term, I feel that this will hurt us badly and leave us at the same level as Scotland and Italy. That might seem appealing now, but we have lost all ambition. Four pro teams with a national academy led to our best era since the 1970s. It wasnt perfect and we had some real peaks and troughs in that period, but you can argue with four grand slams and another 2 championship wins. From 2008, all of that was produced by products of the regions and academies, together with the national academy.

If we have to focus on one team and keep the others on life support for a while then so be it. But once these teams are gone, they are gone. Plus the damage to supports will be immense. I wont support a team that looks like a Cardiff team. I'm not alone in that. Unless these are genuine regional teams that can properly cover the regional area then it will just alienate people.

Even worse, if our regions dont win anything and Wales dont perform that well, then what's next? There's no room to adapt.

Amen to that. It's like we looked at how other smaller nations have organized themselves and thought, shall we emulate Ireland? Nah, Scotland and Italy, that's where we want to be.

Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 1:08 pm

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 8:49 am

Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:32 pm

The thinking here is engagement I think, if they don't play a few games further afield then they are at risk of alienating some of the potential supporters I suppose if they don't feel like they are inclusive, the games played at the Brewery Field have been successful games with good crowds (the pitch is not up to standard but that's another story).

why is the pitch not up to standard?

Poor drainage.

You are probably referring to the Cardiff v Ospreys game with record rainfall. Brewery pitch is fine, just that game should have been cancelled.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 2:44 pm

Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 1:08 pm

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Wed Aug 20, 2025 8:49 am
why is the pitch not up to standard?

Poor drainage.

You are probably referring to the Cardiff v Ospreys game with record rainfall. Brewery pitch is fine, just that game should have been cancelled.

Great match though. I know I'm biased and it looked 'unprofessional' but it was great fun.