RugbyRebels

Chessum and Freeman sat out training today, apparently and are "doubts" for Saturday - good thing Coles was given a shot and some more experience last weekend! Roebuck, Steward, and Daly all back in full training.

Puja

Ollie Chessum and Tommy Freeman are serious injury doubts for England’s game with New Zealand at Twickenham on Saturday. The two British & Irish Lions players sat out training on Monday and their participation against the All Blacks is in jeopardy.

Chessum is struggling with a foot injury and was seen on crutches at England’s training base in Bagshot. He was replaced after 70 minutes of the 38-18 win against Fiji on Saturday and in the likely event he is ruled out Maro Itoje’s expected second‑row partner would be Alex Coles.

Freeman was also replaced in the later stages of the victory and it is understood he is nursing a hamstring injury.

Not sounding too optimistic. Roebuck back on the wing and CCS to bench to cover lock?

Hopefully that is mind games - Chessum in particular would be an huge loss.

Putting someone on crutches and not training kiiiinda doesn't sound like a Sunday Bestwork move.

I think Freeman is an equally large loss. Dude has barely put a foot wrong since his first cap.

Both huge losses.

The Times reporting that Underhill will start at open side.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 8:08 am The Times reporting that Underhill will start at open side.

Would be the correct decision.

I suppose we’ll soon find out.

Well, Pepper keeps his spot, but that's not the big news...

England: Steward; Roebuck, Lawrence, Dingwall, Feyi-Waboso; Ford, Mitchell; Baxter, George, Heyes, Itoje, Coles, Pepper, Underhill, Earl

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Cunningham-South, T Curry, Pollock, Spencer, M Smith

Erm. Well, I guess with Freeman and Chessum missing out...but seeing Steward in there does not fill me with confidence, if I'm honest.

I expected most of that, bar Pepper starting ahead of Curry and the props being the other way round.

Quite a bit of bench impact available.

Not much for NZ to worry about in that backline other than IFW and contested up and unders.

Gods below and ever burning, you lot are miserable beggars! We've got the form two wings in the Prem, the form outside centre in the Prem, an actual 12 (instead of a "I'm sure this 10 or 13 can do it"), the form fly-half in the Prem and yet it's doom and gloom.

Looks like a very decent team to me. Yes, Chessum and Freeman are major losses, but we've got very handy substitutes (the injury that would terrify me would be one to Mitchell) and that bench impact is to die for (#22 aside). I'm happy with that.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:39 pm Gods below and ever burning, you lot are miserable beggars! We've got the form two wings in the Prem, the form outside centre in the Prem, an actual 12 (instead of a "I'm sure this 10 or 13 can do it"), the form fly-half in the Prem and yet it's doom and gloom.

Looks like a very decent team to me. Yes, Chessum and Freeman are major losses, but we've got very handy substitutes (the injury that would terrify me would be one to Mitchell) and that bench impact is to die for (#22 aside). I'm happy with that.

Puja

Not saying he hasn’t picked the best available, other than I’d have Arundell, just that the best available ain’t that scary.

Losing Chessum is a sizeable blow, Coles is a significant step down even with recent improvements though I do like the idea of CCS steaming off the bench and into the second row.

Freeman is a massive blow as he's our best carrier through contract in the backline by a sizeable distance. I wonder if part of the Steward selection is to try and share that carrying work load around. It's not a real strength for Lawrence, Roebuck doesn't tend to come far off his wing, all three might have to chip in and run some hard lines taking the pass on the gain line. Mix it up and keep the ABs defence guessing.

Stacking the bench is ballsy. Got to say I like that from Borthwick, shows confidence in the depth of his squad and poses some questions to Robertson. Rassie showed that you need a ruthless streak with using Venter for 30 mins at the weekend I'd not be opposed to using Baxter similarly and unleashing a fresh Baby Rhino if we're on the attack close to half time. Get him running at tired bodies.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:21 pm Not much for NZ to worry about in that backline other than IFW and contested up and unders.

This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:31 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:21 pm Not much for NZ to worry about in that backline other than IFW and contested up and unders.

This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:39 pm Gods below and ever burning, you lot are miserable beggars! We've got the form two wings in the Prem, the form outside centre in the Prem, an actual 12 (instead of a "I'm sure this 10 or 13 can do it"), the form fly-half in the Prem and yet it's doom and gloom.

Looks like a very decent team to me. Yes, Chessum and Freeman are major losses, but we've got very handy substitutes (the injury that would terrify me would be one to Mitchell) and that bench impact is to die for (#22 aside). I'm happy with that.

Puja

Fun team, let's do 'em. Bring it, NZ.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:31 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:21 pm Not much for NZ to worry about in that backline other than IFW and contested up and unders.

This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

You may be right and I hope you are. The key remains not giving NZ easy run-back ball, IMO. Kick too much down the middle (especially badly) and they could be out of sight by HT.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:31 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:21 pm Not much for NZ to worry about in that backline other than IFW and contested up and unders.

This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

Trouble is, we have a habit of giving up chances against teams who can find the gap between 13 and wing, and I do not trust Steward to make a 1on1 tackle. So Smith will come on with us trailing by 2 scores...

Other than that, I think it's a good team, I just don't see that Steward brings enough.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:51 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:31 pm

This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

You may be right and I hope you are. The key remains not giving NZ easy run-back ball, IMO. Kick too much down the middle (especially badly) and they could be out of sight by HT.

We haven't really kicked like that so far so I'd hope we wouldn't now. With such a mobile and tackle hungry backrow plus the back three we have there should be plenty of contest for any All Black catcher.

I have mixed feelings on the 23. However, I do think there's a massive upside to what Borthwick is doing with the squad.

Chessum and Freeman are big losses but Coles and Roebuck are good replacements.

I think we have the ability to beat this NZ side and after a string of close losses for us, we really owe them.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 6:04 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:51 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

You may be right and I hope you are. The key remains not giving NZ easy run-back ball, IMO. Kick too much down the middle (especially badly) and they could be out of sight by HT.

We haven't really kicked like that so far so I'd hope we wouldn't now. With such a mobile and tackle hungry backrow plus the back three we have there should be plenty of contest for any All Black catcher.

Plus NZ looked exceedingly ropey under the high ball vs Scotland, so possibly a weakness that can be exploited.

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 5:57 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:31 pm This. How many times will Ford kick it straight up in the air in the first 20? Leaving Fin out indicates that SB was not as impressed with his performance against Fiji as some.

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

Trouble is, we have a habit of giving up chances against teams who can find the gap between 13 and wing, and I do not trust Steward to make a 1on1 tackle. So Smith will come on with us trailing by 2 scores...

Other than that, I think it's a good team, I just don't see that Steward brings enough.

Frankly it's amazing that Steward's even a professional rugby player given the prevailing opinion of him on here.

Puja

It surprises me as well.

As a related aside, is there any news of Furbank?

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 6:33 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 6:04 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:51 pm

You may be right and I hope you are. The key remains not giving NZ easy run-back ball, IMO. Kick too much down the middle (especially badly) and they could be out of sight by HT.

We haven't really kicked like that so far so I'd hope we wouldn't now. With such a mobile and tackle hungry backrow plus the back three we have there should be plenty of contest for any All Black catcher.

Plus NZ looked exceedingly ropey under the high ball vs Scotland, so possibly a weakness that can be exploited.

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 5:57 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 4:44 pm

I suspect it's more to do with a) how well Ford is playing and b) his intention to go hard in the second half and his intention to bring on Marcus in the second half at fullback as we up the pace.

Trouble is, we have a habit of giving up chances against teams who can find the gap between 13 and wing, and I do not trust Steward to make a 1on1 tackle. So Smith will come on with us trailing by 2 scores...

Other than that, I think it's a good team, I just don't see that Steward brings enough.

Frankly it's amazing that Steward's even a professional rugby player given the prevailing opinion of him on here.

Puja

Meh. TBH, I'm not sure we've produced a quality 15 since Mike Brown