RugbyRebels

Happy 90th to the great man. Six decades ago Castro led his revolutionaries to victory over the US-backed authoritarian leadership of Fulgencio Batista. The island nation of just 11 million had to endure terrorist attacks and 55 years of embargoes by the US because of its socialist policies. Meanwhile, they helped end Apartheid in South Africa by getting the upper hand against that nation's army in Angola, in what also amounted to a Soviet-American proxy war. Nelson Mandela personally thanked Castro at the first opportunity following his release from prison. Hugo Chavez was another to pay his gratitude, as Cuba supported Venezuela in the face of American aggression. Cuba is also known for sending highly-skilled doctors to work all over Latin America and the Caribbean. They also helped thousands of Ukranians affected by the Chernobyl Disaster, and actually offered to help the US after Katrina - though the US predictably rebuffed them. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Cuba's imminent demise was anticipated. But under the Castro brothers they've continued on as strong as ever, and indeed it is the United States itself which has begun to yield.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/12/ ... h-birthday

Can we not pretend like Cuba was a brilliant socialist paradise where everyone was treated like a king and happiness grew on trees and oh my, I just came!

Seriously, fuck Castro.

How surprising you should hold that view of one of the twentieth century's greatest heroes in the fight against American tyranny and hegemony. Was it his triumph over authoritarianism that got your goat, his contribution to ending Apartheid, or perhaps his support for Venezuela as the US attempted to engineer one of its archetypal regime change operations?

Meanwhile, things looking very bleak in Venezuela right now, with near starvation widespread (according to Western media accounts). This in a nation sitting on one of the biggest oil deposits in the world. How much of it is due to crippling US sanctions, I wonder, and how much to Nicolas' Maduro's leadership?

If we're going to throw shade like that, I guess I'll take note that you seem to have a thing for authoritarian strong-man leaders that are also openly bigoted.

Of course, I guess I could make a joke about Putin's homophobic government and the irony of him hanging out with a bunch of men dressing up like the leather daddy from the Village People and ride around on throbbing, compensatory motorcycles in a giant, roving sausage party as those pistons pound in and out of those tight rings, and that there has also been some study done in homophobia and latent homosexuality, but I guess I won't need to.

Wow! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-ame ... %3FSThisFB

cashead wrote:Can we not pretend like Cuba was a brilliant socialist paradise where everyone was treated like a king and happiness grew on trees and oh my, I just came!

Seriously, fuck Castro.

You should visit Cas. It's not all bad. People I met were generally happy.

As so often Cuba is an example of something which isn't all one thing or another. The health and education systems are excellent, a credit to the government and its people, and that they've done that in the face of some barking mad trade restrictions still more impressive. I'm not sure there was ever a need to the US to act as they did with regards to Cuba, but even if they did that time passed a long time ago and for them to continue to place restrictions on Cuba is shaming. That said Cuba's record on human rights is pathetic, Castro Jnr isn't exactly an enlightened leader and his father was a right bastard, so much so I wouldn't care to wish Fidel a happy anything.

A bit like Venezuela being held up as an example of enlightened socialist rule for the 21st century.

Castro Jnr isn't exactly an enlightened leader and his father was a right bastard,

Are you referring to Angel Castro, a poor economic migrant to Cuba from Spain?

RIP

cashead wrote:Can we not pretend like Cuba was a brilliant socialist paradise where everyone was treated like a king and happiness grew on trees and oh my, I just came!

Seriously, fuck Castro.

Of course not. But we also don't have to act like Cuba was the devil incarnate because they attempted to implement a political system that the US didn't agree with. As usual, politics is more complicated than good versus evil. There have been terrible actions on both sides with regards to what has happened in Cuba.

Digby wrote:As so often Cuba is an example of something which isn't all one thing or another. The health and education systems are excellent, a credit to the government and its people, and that they've done that in the face of some barking mad trade restrictions still more impressive. I'm not sure there was ever a need to the US to act as they did with regards to Cuba, but even if they did that time passed a long time ago and for them to continue to place restrictions on Cuba is shaming. That said Cuba's record on human rights is pathetic, Castro Jnr isn't exactly an enlightened leader and his father was a right bastard, so much so I wouldn't care to wish Fidel a happy anything.

This is a pretty good summary.

What happens after Raul (he's 85)? Will they have elections, you think? Castro's got loads of kids from his various marriages, but I'm not aware of any of them being involved in the political arena...

'a brutal dictator' according to the president-elect and all round champion of the people, Mr Donald (the Donald) Trump.

Castro will be remembered long after Trump

He's not really up with the likes of Pol Pot when it comes to being a brutal dictator, more akin to a Pinochet

Wonderful article:

This August 13, Fidel Castro Ruz, leader of the Cuban Revolution and international inspiration for people struggling for a better world, turned 90. His age alone is a remarkable achievement, considering more than 630 documented assassination attempts on his life by the CIA and other nefarious agencies.

Despite the enormous historical impact that Fidel Castro has had in Cuba and Latin America for more than 55 years, it is astounding that his voice has never been heard nor his words widely known by the people of the United States.

But Fidel’s legendary life of revolution is certainly noted elsewhere. All this year in Cuba, and around the world as his birthday approaches, there are countless activities to celebrate his life.

It is a shame that Fidel Castro’s life and his audacity in defeating a bloody dictatorship to then build socialism, is hardly known by the American people. They would find a man of enormous courage and humanity who delivered his country from a neo-colonial status to a sovereign country with a major imprint on the world stage.

They would learn that Fidel Castro has expressed admiration for the American people, despite U.S. government policy that has tried to overthrow the revolution and done so much harm.

Think about this. In March of this year, President Barack Obama in Havana spoke on Cuban national television, uncensored on evening prime time, when undoubtedly millions of people watched him, curious to know if and how U.S. policy would change toward Cuba. Uncensored.

But how many people ever heard Fidel Castro — or Raúl Castro — over the airwaves in the U.S. or in a daily newspaper? To ask is to answer.

Part of the U.S. blockade of Cuba has been the travel ban, keeping us from seeing Cuba with our own eyes. Its intent was to isolate Cuba and keep people of the United States from understanding the Cuban revolutionary process or who the Cubans and their leaders really are.

Fidel Castro was one of Washington’s first demonized leaders, to justify the U.S. government placing the Cuban population under screws to extract their surrender to the old ways of domination.

The blockade has been extremely harsh, to the tune of more than 1 trillion dollars in damages to the Cuban economy, not including the human toll. And yet, Cuba’s infant mortality rate reached an astonishing low 4.2 deaths per 1,000 last year, a testament to their healthcare system.

Fidel Castro’s proposals of international solidarity also extended to the United States.

How many people know that right after the Katrina disaster, Fidel Castro quietly — without fanfare — offered George W. Bush more than 1,000 Cuban medical personnel, who were prepared to arrive in New Orleans within five hours of Bush’s would-be approval and treat the beleaguered victims along the Gulf Coast without a single cost to the U.S.?

Bush completely ignored the offer. After several days, Castro then publicly repeated the offer, hoping it could become a reality. Instead more people died needless deaths.

How many people know that young Americans are studying for free in Cuba, to become medical doctors in the U.S., thanks to the Latin American School of Medicine?

Cuban medical workers were decisive in combating Ebola in western Africa. When that health catastrophe seemed as if it could potentially spread around the world, many breathed a sigh of relief in witnessing Cuba’s role.

By extending support to the people of southern Africa in the 1970s and 1980s, surely Fidel Castro knew that would earn even deeper enmity from Washington, an ally of the apartheid regime.

But he nevertheless called on Cuban volunteers to aid in defeating the invading South African army in Angola. Those 300,000 men and women helped break the chains of apartheid, and led to Namibia’s independence.

Fidel Castro’s 90th birthday last Saturday should merit some reflection in the United States on who he really is, beyond the relentlessly negative image that the U.S. administrations and media have conveyed to the people of the United States.

Several times in the last 25 years, I have had the honor and privilege of meeting Fidel Castro. I am certain that I will never personally meet a greater humanitarian or revolutionary.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/25/ ... nary-life/

rowan wrote:Wonderful article:

This August 13, Fidel Castro Ruz, leader of the Cuban Revolution and international inspiration for people struggling for a better world, turned 90. His age alone is a remarkable achievement, considering more than 630 documented assassination attempts on his life by the CIA and other nefarious agencies.

Despite the enormous historical impact that Fidel Castro has had in Cuba and Latin America for more than 55 years, it is astounding that his voice has never been heard nor his words widely known by the people of the United States.

But Fidel’s legendary life of revolution is certainly noted elsewhere. All this year in Cuba, and around the world as his birthday approaches, there are countless activities to celebrate his life.

It is a shame that Fidel Castro’s life and his audacity in defeating a bloody dictatorship to then build socialism, is hardly known by the American people. They would find a man of enormous courage and humanity who delivered his country from a neo-colonial status to a sovereign country with a major imprint on the world stage.

They would learn that Fidel Castro has expressed admiration for the American people, despite U.S. government policy that has tried to overthrow the revolution and done so much harm.

Think about this. In March of this year, President Barack Obama in Havana spoke on Cuban national television, uncensored on evening prime time, when undoubtedly millions of people watched him, curious to know if and how U.S. policy would change toward Cuba. Uncensored.

But how many people ever heard Fidel Castro — or Raúl Castro — over the airwaves in the U.S. or in a daily newspaper? To ask is to answer.

Part of the U.S. blockade of Cuba has been the travel ban, keeping us from seeing Cuba with our own eyes. Its intent was to isolate Cuba and keep people of the United States from understanding the Cuban revolutionary process or who the Cubans and their leaders really are.

Fidel Castro was one of Washington’s first demonized leaders, to justify the U.S. government placing the Cuban population under screws to extract their surrender to the old ways of domination.

The blockade has been extremely harsh, to the tune of more than 1 trillion dollars in damages to the Cuban economy, not including the human toll. And yet, Cuba’s infant mortality rate reached an astonishing low 4.2 deaths per 1,000 last year, a testament to their healthcare system.

Fidel Castro’s proposals of international solidarity also extended to the United States.

How many people know that right after the Katrina disaster, Fidel Castro quietly — without fanfare — offered George W. Bush more than 1,000 Cuban medical personnel, who were prepared to arrive in New Orleans within five hours of Bush’s would-be approval and treat the beleaguered victims along the Gulf Coast without a single cost to the U.S.?

Bush completely ignored the offer. After several days, Castro then publicly repeated the offer, hoping it could become a reality. Instead more people died needless deaths.

How many people know that young Americans are studying for free in Cuba, to become medical doctors in the U.S., thanks to the Latin American School of Medicine?

Cuban medical workers were decisive in combating Ebola in western Africa. When that health catastrophe seemed as if it could potentially spread around the world, many breathed a sigh of relief in witnessing Cuba’s role.

By extending support to the people of southern Africa in the 1970s and 1980s, surely Fidel Castro knew that would earn even deeper enmity from Washington, an ally of the apartheid regime.

But he nevertheless called on Cuban volunteers to aid in defeating the invading South African army in Angola. Those 300,000 men and women helped break the chains of apartheid, and led to Namibia’s independence.

Fidel Castro’s 90th birthday last Saturday should merit some reflection in the United States on who he really is, beyond the relentlessly negative image that the U.S. administrations and media have conveyed to the people of the United States.

Several times in the last 25 years, I have had the honor and privilege of meeting Fidel Castro. I am certain that I will never personally meet a greater humanitarian or revolutionary.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/25/ ... nary-life/

Meh, that had more to do with a change in US foreign policy.

Vengeful Glutton wrote:

rowan wrote:Wonderful article:

This August 13, Fidel Castro Ruz, leader of the Cuban Revolution and international inspiration for people struggling for a better world, turned 90. His age alone is a remarkable achievement, considering more than 630 documented assassination attempts on his life by the CIA and other nefarious agencies.

Despite the enormous historical impact that Fidel Castro has had in Cuba and Latin America for more than 55 years, it is astounding that his voice has never been heard nor his words widely known by the people of the United States.

But Fidel’s legendary life of revolution is certainly noted elsewhere. All this year in Cuba, and around the world as his birthday approaches, there are countless activities to celebrate his life.

It is a shame that Fidel Castro’s life and his audacity in defeating a bloody dictatorship to then build socialism, is hardly known by the American people. They would find a man of enormous courage and humanity who delivered his country from a neo-colonial status to a sovereign country with a major imprint on the world stage.

They would learn that Fidel Castro has expressed admiration for the American people, despite U.S. government policy that has tried to overthrow the revolution and done so much harm.

Think about this. In March of this year, President Barack Obama in Havana spoke on Cuban national television, uncensored on evening prime time, when undoubtedly millions of people watched him, curious to know if and how U.S. policy would change toward Cuba. Uncensored.

But how many people ever heard Fidel Castro — or Raúl Castro — over the airwaves in the U.S. or in a daily newspaper? To ask is to answer.

Part of the U.S. blockade of Cuba has been the travel ban, keeping us from seeing Cuba with our own eyes. Its intent was to isolate Cuba and keep people of the United States from understanding the Cuban revolutionary process or who the Cubans and their leaders really are.

Fidel Castro was one of Washington’s first demonized leaders, to justify the U.S. government placing the Cuban population under screws to extract their surrender to the old ways of domination.

The blockade has been extremely harsh, to the tune of more than 1 trillion dollars in damages to the Cuban economy, not including the human toll. And yet, Cuba’s infant mortality rate reached an astonishing low 4.2 deaths per 1,000 last year, a testament to their healthcare system.

Fidel Castro’s proposals of international solidarity also extended to the United States.

How many people know that right after the Katrina disaster, Fidel Castro quietly — without fanfare — offered George W. Bush more than 1,000 Cuban medical personnel, who were prepared to arrive in New Orleans within five hours of Bush’s would-be approval and treat the beleaguered victims along the Gulf Coast without a single cost to the U.S.?

Bush completely ignored the offer. After several days, Castro then publicly repeated the offer, hoping it could become a reality. Instead more people died needless deaths.

How many people know that young Americans are studying for free in Cuba, to become medical doctors in the U.S., thanks to the Latin American School of Medicine?

Cuban medical workers were decisive in combating Ebola in western Africa. When that health catastrophe seemed as if it could potentially spread around the world, many breathed a sigh of relief in witnessing Cuba’s role.

By extending support to the people of southern Africa in the 1970s and 1980s, surely Fidel Castro knew that would earn even deeper enmity from Washington, an ally of the apartheid regime.

But he nevertheless called on Cuban volunteers to aid in defeating the invading South African army in Angola. Those 300,000 men and women helped break the chains of apartheid, and led to Namibia’s independence.

Fidel Castro’s 90th birthday last Saturday should merit some reflection in the United States on who he really is, beyond the relentlessly negative image that the U.S. administrations and media have conveyed to the people of the United States.

Several times in the last 25 years, I have had the honor and privilege of meeting Fidel Castro. I am certain that I will never personally meet a greater humanitarian or revolutionary.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/25/ ... nary-life/

Meh, that had more to do with a change in US foreign policy.

A change in policy brought about by the victory of the Cuban army over the South Africans.

rowan wrote:

Vengeful Glutton wrote:

rowan wrote:Wonderful article:

This August 13, Fidel Castro Ruz, leader of the Cuban Revolution and international inspiration for people struggling for a better world, turned 90. His age alone is a remarkable achievement, considering more than 630 documented assassination attempts on his life by the CIA and other nefarious agencies.

Despite the enormous historical impact that Fidel Castro has had in Cuba and Latin America for more than 55 years, it is astounding that his voice has never been heard nor his words widely known by the people of the United States.

But Fidel’s legendary life of revolution is certainly noted elsewhere. All this year in Cuba, and around the world as his birthday approaches, there are countless activities to celebrate his life.

It is a shame that Fidel Castro’s life and his audacity in defeating a bloody dictatorship to then build socialism, is hardly known by the American people. They would find a man of enormous courage and humanity who delivered his country from a neo-colonial status to a sovereign country with a major imprint on the world stage.

They would learn that Fidel Castro has expressed admiration for the American people, despite U.S. government policy that has tried to overthrow the revolution and done so much harm.

Think about this. In March of this year, President Barack Obama in Havana spoke on Cuban national television, uncensored on evening prime time, when undoubtedly millions of people watched him, curious to know if and how U.S. policy would change toward Cuba. Uncensored.

But how many people ever heard Fidel Castro — or Raúl Castro — over the airwaves in the U.S. or in a daily newspaper? To ask is to answer.

Part of the U.S. blockade of Cuba has been the travel ban, keeping us from seeing Cuba with our own eyes. Its intent was to isolate Cuba and keep people of the United States from understanding the Cuban revolutionary process or who the Cubans and their leaders really are.

Fidel Castro was one of Washington’s first demonized leaders, to justify the U.S. government placing the Cuban population under screws to extract their surrender to the old ways of domination.

The blockade has been extremely harsh, to the tune of more than 1 trillion dollars in damages to the Cuban economy, not including the human toll. And yet, Cuba’s infant mortality rate reached an astonishing low 4.2 deaths per 1,000 last year, a testament to their healthcare system.

Fidel Castro’s proposals of international solidarity also extended to the United States.

How many people know that right after the Katrina disaster, Fidel Castro quietly — without fanfare — offered George W. Bush more than 1,000 Cuban medical personnel, who were prepared to arrive in New Orleans within five hours of Bush’s would-be approval and treat the beleaguered victims along the Gulf Coast without a single cost to the U.S.?

Bush completely ignored the offer. After several days, Castro then publicly repeated the offer, hoping it could become a reality. Instead more people died needless deaths.

How many people know that young Americans are studying for free in Cuba, to become medical doctors in the U.S., thanks to the Latin American School of Medicine?

Cuban medical workers were decisive in combating Ebola in western Africa. When that health catastrophe seemed as if it could potentially spread around the world, many breathed a sigh of relief in witnessing Cuba’s role.

By extending support to the people of southern Africa in the 1970s and 1980s, surely Fidel Castro knew that would earn even deeper enmity from Washington, an ally of the apartheid regime.

But he nevertheless called on Cuban volunteers to aid in defeating the invading South African army in Angola. Those 300,000 men and women helped break the chains of apartheid, and led to Namibia’s independence.

Fidel Castro’s 90th birthday last Saturday should merit some reflection in the United States on who he really is, beyond the relentlessly negative image that the U.S. administrations and media have conveyed to the people of the United States.

Several times in the last 25 years, I have had the honor and privilege of meeting Fidel Castro. I am certain that I will never personally meet a greater humanitarian or revolutionary.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/25/ ... nary-life/

Meh, that had more to do with a change in US foreign policy.

A change in policy brought about by the victory of the Cuban army over the South Africans.

Nope. The Cubans won naught. Even with their "superior" MiGs, they couldn't crack the Saffer army (probably one of the best in the world during the cold war era).

External pressure and international disdain for the Saffer regime caused a change of direction in American foreign policy. Whilst it's never been proven, they probably saw the economic benefits in supporting an a transfer of power to Mandela, since it would allow Anglo American mining interests tap into the huge mineral potential and cheap labour.

Bit like what happened to the Rhodesians. Tactically, the Rhodesian army wiped the floor with Mugabe. Strategically they lost the war, because, quite simply, their white minority regime wasn't liked. A saffer fella I worked with reckons the Rhodesians got on the wrong side of the Seppos because they weren't too happy with the competitive prices Rhodesian chrome was selling for on the mining markets.

It's funny. You think these wars and the like are all about ideology. But that's horse-shyte. They're about natural resources. 'twas ever thus, aye?

Vengeful Glutton wrote:

rowan wrote:

Vengeful Glutton wrote:
Meh, that had more to do with a change in US foreign policy.

A change in policy brought about by the victory of the Cuban army over the South Africans.

Nope. The Cubans won naught. Even with their "superior" MiGs, they couldn't crack the Saffer army (probably one of the best in the world during the cold war era).

External pressure and international disdain for the Saffer regime caused a change of direction in American foreign policy. Whilst it's never been proven, they probably saw the economic benefits in supporting an a transfer of power to Mandela, since it would allow Anglo American mining interests tap into the huge mineral potential and cheap labour.

Bit like what happened to the Rhodesians. Tactically, the Rhodesian army wiped the floor with Mugabe. Strategically they lost the war, because, quite simply, their white minority regime wasn't liked. A saffer fella I worked with reckons the Rhodesians got on the wrong side of the Seppos because they weren't too happy with the competitive prices Rhodesian chrome was selling for on the mining markets.

It's funny. You think these wars and the like are all about ideology. But that's horse-shyte. They're about natural resources. 'twas ever thus, aye?

There's certainly some truth to this. But everything I've ever read about the Angolan conflict suggested the Cubans prevailed, which is why Mandela jumped straight on a plane after being released from prison to go and thank Castro for dealing a huge blow to the Apartheid regime.

In 1991, Nelson Mandela traveled to Cuba to thank Fidel Castro and the Cuban people for supporting the fight against apartheid and colonialism in southern Africa. "The decisive defeat of the aggressive apartheid forces [in Angola] destroyed the myth of the invincibility of the white oppressor," Mandela said. "The defeat of the apartheid army served as an inspiration to the struggling people of South Africa." Below are excerpts from the speech:



Furthermore, after his release from prison in 1990, Mandela traveled to Cuba to meet his friend in person and to thank him for sending soldiers to Angola during the 1970s and 1980s to fight apartheid regimes, widely believed to be a significant catalyst to the eventual ending of apartheid.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analys ... -0028.html

Mandela’s admiration for the Cuban Revolution only grew with time. Cuba under Castro opposed apartheid and supported the African National Congress — Mandela’s political organization and the current ruling party. Mandela credited Cuba’s military support to Angola in the 1970s and 1980s with helping to debilitate South Africa’s government enough to result in the legalization of the ANC in 1990.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/0 ... 00212.html

Here's another view - http://littleatoms.com/news-world/roman ... st-die-him

"The Cuban revolution is, to sections of the western left, rather like a framed photograph of a bilious and dyspeptic uncle which sits gathering dust on the mantelpiece. It represents ‘family’ only because the things you believe about it are abstract projections which exist at a great distance from yourself. You defend every disgrace out of some misguided sense of loyalty, yet are reluctant to get up too close, afraid of the horrors you may witness.

I first went to Cuba in 2006 as a naive young sympathiser with Fidel Castro’s olive-green revolution. I wasn’t so much a communist as someone who had absorbed the largely favourable view of Castro and his revolution that bleeds into left-wing politics from the ever-present communists. Castro had stuck it to the Yankees, after all, while creating a system of education and healthcare that were the envy of the world. Every one of the Castro government’s crimes: every crackdown on workers and trade unionists, every independent newspaper that was forcibly shut down, every peaceful political dissident rotting away in some filthy Cuban jail – all were rationalised away with reference to those three impressive achievements.

Over the years these pillars of the revolution have been marshalled to justify every crime, even among those in the West who otherwise see themselves as liberal and democratic"

fivepointer wrote:Here's another view - http://littleatoms.com/news-world/roman ... st-die-him

"The Cuban revolution is, to sections of the western left, rather like a framed photograph of a bilious and dyspeptic uncle which sits gathering dust on the mantelpiece. It represents ‘family’ only because the things you believe about it are abstract projections which exist at a great distance from yourself. You defend every disgrace out of some misguided sense of loyalty, yet are reluctant to get up too close, afraid of the horrors you may witness.

I first went to Cuba in 2006 as a naive young sympathiser with Fidel Castro’s olive-green revolution. I wasn’t so much a communist as someone who had absorbed the largely favourable view of Castro and his revolution that bleeds into left-wing politics from the ever-present communists. Castro had stuck it to the Yankees, after all, while creating a system of education and healthcare that were the envy of the world. Every one of the Castro government’s crimes: every crackdown on workers and trade unionists, every independent newspaper that was forcibly shut down, every peaceful political dissident rotting away in some filthy Cuban jail – all were rationalised away with reference to those three impressive achievements.

Over the years these pillars of the revolution have been marshalled to justify every crime, even among those in the West who otherwise see themselves as liberal and democratic"

& meanwhile America has killed millions of people with wars and covert actions all over the world, continued racist policies internally and has by far the biggest prison population in the world per capita, with disproportionately high incarceration rates for African-Americans and Native Americans.

The problem is Cuba was never given the chance to succeed. From the moment Batista's corrupt government was overthrown and wealthy American businessmen and mafia alike lost their favourite Caribbean playground, Cuba was subjected to countless military attacks, including many of a terrorist nature (such as the downing of a passenger airline 40 years ago), and crippling sanctions were imposed, basically denying the socialist government any chance of succeeding. Of course there was dissent, of course there were defections, and probably Castro would have lost an election under those circumstances had there been one. But as the above article states, what do we actually know about the Cuban people and their view of all this?

Why does it always have to come back to the USA?

Can't we judge Cuba and Castro on its own terms. If the Govt have behaved badly - which they have over decades - then why is it so hard to recognise that and call it out for what it is?

Cuba have made progress in some areas, but this is not a free democratic country. It's human right abuses are many.

fivepointer wrote:Why does it always have to come back to the USA?

Can't we judge Cuba and Castro on its own terms. If the Govt have behaved badly - which they have over decades - then why is it so hard to recognise that and call it out for what it is?

Cuba have made progress in some areas, but this is not a free democratic country. It's human right abuses are many.

I think the US, in this case, is quite relevant to the discussion. It's all "what ifs" but I have no doubt the largest superpower in the world constantly making attempts on your life, threatening militarily, pushing the rest of the world to impose crippling sanctions on your people, and basically undermining everything you do can have some sort of effect on decision making.

None of this excuses what has gone on, but it was sort of an interesting experiment that was never given a fair chance. I don't think Castro entered power to wreak tyranny on his people.