Post AI Review

[Banquo]

Looking across the NH, i look forward to the six nations. I don't see why england shouldn't be quietly confident. The Celts' first teams are all good but they lack england's depth. The Murrayfield clash could be a cracker for a chsnge - the Scots'll be bullish and I'd hope Jones has a plan to puncture their often frail congidrnce.

er....I'd normally agree, but both Scotland and Wales were carrying a fair number of casualties as far as I could tell; they've made some good finds on the back of that.

[bitts]

Looking across the NH, i look forward to the six nations. I don't see why england shouldn't be quietly confident. The Celts' first teams are all good but they lack england's depth. The Murrayfield clash could be a cracker for a chsnge - the Scots'll be bullish and I'd hope Jones has a plan to puncture their often frail congidrnce.

er....I'd normally agree, but both Scotland and Wales were carrying a fair number of casualties as far as I could tell; they've made some good finds on the back of that.

True, but England's finishers could still be enough to take them over the line against the rest of the SN (with the possible exception of Ireland and their apparently infinite back row options). A bench of Sinckler, George, Genge,Lawes, Simmonds,Care,Slade,May will cause any side problems in the last twenty and will probably be enough to get England out of a lot of tight matches.

And that's discounting Te'o and Billy V being fit.

[Stom]

Armand is seriously starting to impress more and more often now, for me. I would get him involved somehow, tbh. I wonder if Eddie will see it that way, though.

[Banquo]

Looking across the NH, i look forward to the six nations. I don't see why england shouldn't be quietly confident. The Celts' first teams are all good but they lack england's depth. The Murrayfield clash could be a cracker for a chsnge - the Scots'll be bullish and I'd hope Jones has a plan to puncture their often frail congidrnce.

er....I'd normally agree, but both Scotland and Wales were carrying a fair number of casualties as far as I could tell; they've made some good finds on the back of that.

True, but England's finishers could still be enough to take them over the line against the rest of the SN (with the possible exception of Ireland and their apparently infinite back row options). A bench of Sinckler, George, Genge,Lawes, Simmonds,Care,Slade,May will cause any side problems in the last twenty and will probably be enough to get England out of a lot of tight matches.

And that's discounting Te'o and Billy V being fit.

sorry, my point was they have better strength in depth than appeared to be being indicated. If May is on our bench I'd be disappointed too, given his performances.

[Mr Mwenda]

Looking across the NH, i look forward to the six nations. I don't see why england shouldn't be quietly confident. The Celts' first teams are all good but they lack england's depth. The Murrayfield clash could be a cracker for a chsnge - the Scots'll be bullish and I'd hope Jones has a plan to puncture their often frail congidrnce.

er....I'd normally agree, but both Scotland and Wales were carrying a fair number of casualties as far as I could tell; they've made some good finds on the back of that.

Maybe they're improving in that regard but i reckon England run deeper still. I've not seen anything this autumn that i didn't think this england side couldn't handle. Of course they'll have to play well, i just don't see a reason for particular pessimism.

[Banquo]

Looking across the NH, i look forward to the six nations. I don't see why england shouldn't be quietly confident. The Celts' first teams are all good but they lack england's depth. The Murrayfield clash could be a cracker for a chsnge - the Scots'll be bullish and I'd hope Jones has a plan to puncture their often frail congidrnce.

er....I'd normally agree, but both Scotland and Wales were carrying a fair number of casualties as far as I could tell; they've made some good finds on the back of that.

Maybe they're improving in that regard but i reckon England run deeper still. I've not seen anything this autumn that i didn't think this england side couldn't handle. Of course they'll have to play well, i just don't see a reason for particular pessimism.

who is pessimistic? However, what I saw was a Scotland team performing very well when sub-strength, and ditto Wales to a lesser extent in terms of results. As you say its something to look forward to, but Wales is always a difficult game and Scotland will be a big challenge at Murrayfield with a lot of confidence in their (new) style in attack and a few more players stepping up. They are always likely to lack our depth, but that gap doesn't look so large now.

[Digby]

Scotland looked a class apart from us in their speed of ball play, superb clearout work from Barclay and Co. even if it was against 14. And in fairness they caused NZ problems too, so it'd seem they've quite a platform to play with with Townsend adding to what Verne did, though we're yet to see if Townsend can continue to see them deliver the basics that allows for the prettier stuff

[Oakboy]

As ever, there is a link between a smaller playing pool and continuity. We have a greater depth of talent but we have work to do to get anywhere near 'best possible performance'. Eddie is no fool, of course, but 'muddling through' will not win the 6N.

I suppose we are still winning. Now we really need to consolidate and stop meddling. We need to build a hard edge and clinical efficiency. Much as I love pretty rugby, I doubt we'll see much. Efficient, ground-out victories will be Eddie's route, I'd guess.

[Banquo]

As ever, there is a link between a smaller playing pool and continuity. We have a greater depth of talent but we have work to do to get anywhere near 'best possible performance'. Eddie is no fool, of course, but 'muddling through' will not win the 6N.

I suppose we are still winning. Now we really need to consolidate and stop meddling. We need to build a hard edge and clinical efficiency. Much as I love pretty rugby, I doubt we'll see much. Efficient, ground-out victories will be Eddie's route, I'd guess.

...you could also see what is possible despite a number of changes from both Scotland and Wales.


Besides, its not meddling- he's looking for solutions.

[Banquo]

Scotland looked a class apart from us in their speed of ball play, superb clearout work from Barclay and Co. even if it was against 14. And in fairness they caused NZ problems too, so it'd seem they've quite a platform to play with with Townsend adding to what Verne did, though we're yet to see if Townsend can continue to see them deliver the basics that allows for the prettier stuff

agreed, depends what happens when put under more pressure for longer, and also how their defence shapes up. I was impressed with Wales' approach work too, though their finishing was terrible.

[Digby]

I wonder what Wales are going to do about Webb. If they're really going to ignore him once he's gone to Toulon they might as well not pick him now. They could also use someone helping out Rob Evans with the carrying, and actually defences could do with paying more attention to Evans when the others aren't carrying enough.

[Banquo]

I wonder what Wales are going to do about Webb. If they're really going to ignore him once he's gone to Toulon they might as well not pick him now. They could also use someone helping out Rob Evans with the carrying, and actually defences could do with paying more attention to Evans when the others aren't carrying enough.

...know more when they are back up to full strength I guess. I was impressed with Navidi too, who did more than help out with the carrying

Owens, AWJ, Faletau all carried a decent amount, but Evans packed a lot into his 57 mins. Wales did have an indecent amount of ball- helped by their ability to reclaim kicks- in contrast to the AB's, who kicked a lot of decent ball away.....maybe a sign of tiredness, which is ironic, as the net effect is to tire your self more.

[Digby]

I wonder what Wales are going to do about Webb. If they're really going to ignore him once he's gone to Toulon they might as well not pick him now. They could also use someone helping out Rob Evans with the carrying, and actually defences could do with paying more attention to Evans when the others aren't carrying enough.

...know more when they are back up to full strength I guess. I was impressed with Navidi too, who did more than help out with the carrying

Not sure he'll even play though. Even if Warburton goes on holiday for a year there's still Moriarty, Faletau and Tipuric. And actually Moriarty should be doing a lot more carrying, and the other two are of course class if not the most physical of carriers

[Mr Mwenda]

I see plenty of pessimism. I also see a Scottish team that played two good games in a row after just pipping Samoa. No need to paint the devil on the wall, as the Swedes say (sorry, can't think of an English equivalent just now).

[Banquo]

I see plenty of pessimism. I also see a Scottish team that played two good games in a row after just pipping Samoa. No need to paint the devil on the wall, as the Swedes say (sorry, can't think of an English equivalent just now).

where is the pessimism in relation to the 6N opposition? I'm saying the scots can be optimistic, as can the welsh to a lesser extent. Is it pessimistic to say Scotland look stronger than expected? You are the one who 'hopes' Eddie has a plan to puncture their comfidence

[Mr Mwenda]

Ach you're probably right. It's just a reaction to the cumulative hyperbole on this board over things like Farrell's ability and the endless idea that if just one more person were to come in all would be well. I blame Jones for largely selecting the right players.

It feels like every other year Scotland are just about to kick on. Still, all power to them if they can keep up form and momentum.

[Banquo]

Ach you're probably right. It's just a reaction to the cumulative hyperbole on this board over things like Farrell's ability and the endless idea that if just one more person were to come in all would be well. I blame Jones for largely selecting the right players.

It feels like every other year Scotland are just about to kick on. Still, all power to them if they can keep up form and momentum.

. A strong 6N is a great thing, if we can raise the standards of NH rugby then the RWC intensity might not come as such a shock!

And yes, Eddie does get most things right, certainly in terms of getting wins; in my view, he has decided how he wants us to play, but its not to the liking of a lot of people- including me to some extent- and he is cutting his cloth accordingly.

[Mellsblue]

and the endless idea that if just one more person were to come in all would be well.

Que?!?!?

[Scrumhead]

Ach you're probably right. It's just a reaction to the cumulative hyperbole on this board over things like Farrell's ability and the endless idea that if just one more person were to come in all would be well. I blame Jones for largely selecting the right players.

It feels like every other year Scotland are just about to kick on. Still, all power to them if they can keep up form and momentum.

. A strong 6N is a great thing, if we can raise the standards of NH rugby then the RWC intensity might not come as such a shock!

And yes, Eddie does get most things right, certainly in terms of getting wins; in my view, he has decided how he wants us to play, but its not to the liking of a lot of people- including me to some extent- and he is cutting his cloth accordingly.

I agree. He is and I’d rather win ugly than play attractive rugby and lose.

Having said that ... As Digby said, Scotland’s ruck work and ability to generate quick ball was highly impressive, but I refuse to believe that is beyond our the capability of our players.

I’m not asking for us to play Barbarian rugby, I’d accept us being ruthlessly good at the basics.

[Digby]

Scotland's problem is if they come under pressure their play will slow a lot, they'll go sideways, and then they'll again have to ponder carriers like Denton, and then they'd lose the ability to generate such quick ball. As ever it's all a trade off on balance from the quality of player available. So England's players can do better, but it'd be easier to improve with (some) other players than improve the current players being selected

I tend to agree with Banquo's comment above that as it happens Eddie isn't far off the balance he wants, I'd also be one of those not loving everything about our present balance, and also concerned that whilst the win % is outstanding it could oh so easily be lower

[Puja]

I think that the major thing to come out of the AIs is that Robshaw + lock does not work in the back row. It wasn't fantastic when Underhill went off against Australia and against Samoa, who'd clearly started planning the minute the 25 was announced, it was a disaster. I can only imagine what it would be like against New Zealand.

I'm not particularly convinced that lock + Underhill/Simmonds would be any better - they bring different qualities to the openside to Robshaw, but I don't see them being particularly more dominant at ruck-time, and certainly not enough to make up for us picking three locks instead of three back row.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Lets face it, we've had a fairly easy Autumn. Won each match comfortably but still struggled for a complete performance along the way.

Some excellent individual performances at times, mixed in other areas, but 3 big wins is very satisfying.

Ben Youngs' insistence that England want to attack like no other team is yet to materialise though.

Australia go from being decent to a shambles in the space of a week it seems. Argentina seem to leave much of their best in the RC and Samoa, for all their industry and effort don't get close.

I would've loved to have seen how we got on against the NZ team that toured. They were there for the taking, but I'm still not sure we are the team that can take them. We'll cross that bridge soon enough though.

Tbh, I'm more concerned about the 6Ns. Scotland are looking as good as they have done for a very, very long time. Ireland's first choice are still very strong, they'll knock the shit out of us at the breakdown, and Wales pushed NZ close for a long time.

As for France, I still don't have a clue.

I think there's going to be a few surprises come mid March 2018.

[Scrumhead]

We always talk up the other home nations but it rarely works out as expected.

Last season everyone was talking about the Scots being a real threat and we destroyed them. Back in 2013 we went to Cardiff feeling like we had a very good chance of winning a Grand Slam and then came away humbled. France look continually dodgy and then come up with a great performanc to win games where they weren’t given a hope. My point is, the AIs and form in general isn’t all that informative come the 6 Nations. There’s too much emotion/rivalry etc. to predict the games with an real accuracy.

We have Wales and Ireland at home which helps and while Scotland at Murrayfield and France in Paris will always be tough games, we should still be going to in to either with confidence we can win.

[Banquo]

I think that the major thing to come out of the AIs is that Robshaw + lock does not work in the back row.

what a total surprise. I'm bemused why anyone thinks a lock at 6 is a good plan, in a team that has struggled at the breakdown since christ was a carpenter.

[Mellsblue]

I think that the major thing to come out of the AIs is that Robshaw + lock does not work in the back row.

what a total surprise. I'm bemused why anyone thinks a lock at 6 is a good plan, in a team that has struggled at the breakdown since christ was a carpenter.

Oh Jesus. Not this again.