Cue firestorm

[morepork]

Hold on, the Ref didn't do anything about it, world rugby should be brought to court post haste on charges of allowing a racist c^%t of a Ref be allowed to referee an international rugby match

Is it just gypsies you hate, or is it Welsh gypsies?

[Puja]

How about everyone follows up on their promises to not continue posting further arguments on this and we leave the thread to die a quiet death? It appears that people are banging their heads against respective brick walls and nothing is being achieved apart from vitriol, opprobrium and frustration.

Puja

[Digby]

How about everyone follows up on their promises to not continue posting

Having made no such promise myself I feel this would leave my free to continue posting and claim the moral victory. That said I'm not sure how this thread going around in circles differs that much from the others.

[oldbackrow]

I think the thread should continue long enough for me, an English Brummie who played in the forwards and therefore thick (is that racist? ) to understand what "opprobrium" means?! Is it even a real word?!

[Galfon]

For what it's worth,
hearing is next Tue.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/35913618

( not sure why link says 'boxing'...)

[Digby]

I think the thread should continue long enough for me, an English Brummie who played in the forwards and therefore thick (is that racist? ) to understand what "opprobrium" means?! Is it even a real word?!

As a Brummie myself, sort of, I'd have to confess I've never heard we're a race. What does opprobrium mean? No idea, but you wouldn't catch a Brummie using it, opprobriyam maybe.

[Galfon]

I think the thread should continue long enough for me, an English Brummie who played in the forwards and therefore thick (is that racist? ) to understand what "opprobrium" means?! Is it even a real word?!

as it's an anagram of 'oi brum prop' you should have an inkling. I think it's posh type of sneering/ bullying.If i'm right it's because i'm a mongrel brummie who played in the backs..

[oldbackrow]

I think the thread should continue long enough for me, an English Brummie who played in the forwards and therefore thick (is that racist? ) to understand what "opprobrium" means?! Is it even a real word?!

As a Brummie myself, sort of, I'd have to confess I've never heard we're a race. What does opprobrium mean? No idea, but you wouldn't catch a Brummie using it, opprobriyam maybe.

We're close to being a race and I live in Yorkshire, a place where they KNOW they are a separate race even if no-one will acknowledge it!!

[oldbackrow]

I think the thread should continue long enough for me, an English Brummie who played in the forwards and therefore thick (is that racist? ) to understand what "opprobrium" means?! Is it even a real word?!

as it's an anagram of 'oi brum prop' you should have an inkling. I think it's posh type of sneering/ bullying.If i'm right it's because i'm a mongrel brummie who played in the backs..

More than virtual rep! You must be a back to be able to think of that!

[Puja]

How about everyone follows up on their promises to not continue posting

Having made no such promise myself I feel this would leave my free to continue posting and claim the moral victory. That said I'm not sure how this thread going around in circles differs that much from the others.

I'm not sure continuing to post would necessarily gain you the moral victory...

Opprobrium means harsh criticism, usually public. I'm not sure how I know that as a hooker, but it's probably because I'm from the south

Puja

[Mellsblue]

For what it's worth,
hearing is next Tue.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/35913618

( not sure why link says 'boxing'...)

Because reading this thread is like being repeatedly punched in the face.

[Digby]

I'm not sure continuing to post would necessarily gain you the moral victory...

It'd still go to Wales?

[Galfon]

re. old b/r
yes, backs have time to solve puzzles, between rounds of pocket-billiards of course.
Karma brings the driving rain in mid-winter.

[oldbackrow]

How about everyone follows up on their promises to not continue posting

Having made no such promise myself I feel this would leave my free to continue posting and claim the moral victory. That said I'm not sure how this thread going around in circles differs that much from the others.

I'm not sure continuing to post would necessarily gain you the moral victory...

Opprobrium means harsh criticism, usually public. I'm not sure how I know that as a hooker, but it's probably because I'm from the south

Puja

Ah right!
So will WR 'opprobrium' Joe Marler then? (Wheres that old whistle smiley!) and will he enjoy it?!

[Puja]

Having made no such promise myself I feel this would leave my free to continue posting and claim the moral victory. That said I'm not sure how this thread going around in circles differs that much from the others.

I'm not sure continuing to post would necessarily gain you the moral victory...

Opprobrium means harsh criticism, usually public. I'm not sure how I know that as a hooker, but it's probably because I'm from the south

Puja

Ah right!
So will WR 'opprobrium' Joe Marler then? (Wheres that old whistle smiley!) and will he enjoy it?!

Incidentally, an alternative meaning is "the public disgrace arising from shameful conduct." Which may also apply.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Not sure I've got this right, but it appears that Lee calls Marler a posh c**t and Marler calls Lee gypsy boy. Not sure of the sequence of who said what first. But one sounds about as bad as the other . You could well understand that these were snapped out spontaneously, probably without a lot of forethought, or alanysis of the actual content of the insult, or of its possible outcome, by a pair of het up props who were not thinking along politically correct lines at the time.
Marler seems to have come in for most flack since gypsies are regarded as a race in many (but not all) circles, and so his utterances are seen as racist.
On the other hand, posh c**ts (or even just plain c**ts) do not constitute a race, and so that epithet is not regarded as racist and therefore seems regarded as a lesser, and possibly acceptable insult, that is not appealable.
I can understand the point of view of those who think the whose business has got a little overblown and out of hand, and who believe the demand for further action/punishment is not necessary.
I actually do not like sledging between rugby players on the pitch. It seems to have taken off in recent years, is pointless and against the spirit of the game. Perhaps all verbal insults should be penalized by the ref with a penalty kick.
I'd also love to see penalties awarded against players who rub the head of an opponent who has just given away a penalty.

[Nightynight]

Hold on, the Ref didn't do anything about it, world rugby should be brought to court post haste on charges of allowing a racist c^%t of a Ref be allowed to referee an international rugby match

Is it just gypsies you hate, or is it Welsh gypsies?

http://www.natt.org.uk/community-inform ... ravellers/


Where did 'hate' come into this?

My experience of gypsies is seeing the aftermath of funeral wakes in a west London high street, where they smashed a few pubs up (and nicked everything that wasn't nailed down) and being run off the road on the A40 near Ross-on-Wye by a white flat back transit, whilst the 3 occupants waved club hammers threatening to smash the highways agency car we were in because they thought the road survey team had been taking photo's of one of their camps in a adjacent field.

Didn't go much on it but hardly hate inducing events for me and I have no idea if they were welsh. Then maybe the definition of a welsh gypsy is having a thin skin, I dunno?

[Doorzetbornandbred]

This season the sides I coach been involved in 3 matches where opposition players have been warned regarding language and then yellowed including a touch judge who was a coach from the opposition team. The football mentality is creeping in year by year with abuse from touchlines aimed at players and officials. I've had to have a word with a couple parents from my own lot during the season. Then you have the "hollywoods" of which Parisse is one of the worst offenders for that and topped off by Sextons "just got shot in the head" acting the other week.

[Oakboy]

Not sure I've got this right, but it appears that Lee calls Marler a posh c**t and Marler calls Lee gypsy boy. Not sure of the sequence of who said what first. But one sounds about as bad as the other . You could well understand that these were snapped out spontaneously, probably without a lot of forethought, or alanysis of the actual content of the insult, or of its possible outcome, by a pair of het up props who were not thinking along politically correct lines at the time.
Marler seems to have come in for most flack since gypsies are regarded as a race in many (but not all) circles, and so his utterances are seen as racist.
On the other hand, posh c**ts (or even just plain c**ts) do not constitute a race, and so that epithet is not regarded as racist and therefore seems regarded as a lesser, and possibly acceptable insult, that is not appealable.
I can understand the point of view of those who think the whose business has got a little overblown and out of hand, and who believe the demand for further action/punishment is not necessary.
I actually do not like sledging between rugby players on the pitch. It seems to have taken off in recent years, is pointless and against the spirit of the game. Perhaps all verbal insults should be penalized by the ref with a penalty kick.
I'd also love to see penalties awarded against players who rub the head of an opponent who has just given away a penalty.

Good post that!

I've just read a newspaper article suggesting that the NUT are refusing to teach fundamental British values on the grounds that it is 'cultural supremacism' and might offend migrants. Instead, they will include 'international rights'. What a weird world we live in. Contextually the 'gypsy boy' outrage is hardly surprising.

[Stooo]

Not sure I've got this right, but it appears that Lee calls Marler a posh c**t and Marler calls Lee gypsy boy. Not sure of the sequence of who said what first. But one sounds about as bad as the other . You could well understand that these were snapped out spontaneously, probably without a lot of forethought, or alanysis of the actual content of the insult, or of its possible outcome, by a pair of het up props who were not thinking along politically correct lines at the time.
Marler seems to have come in for most flack since gypsies are regarded as a race in many (but not all) circles, and so his utterances are seen as racist.
On the other hand, posh c**ts (or even just plain c**ts) do not constitute a race, and so that epithet is not regarded as racist and therefore seems regarded as a lesser, and possibly acceptable insult, that is not appealable.
I can understand the point of view of those who think the whose business has got a little overblown and out of hand, and who believe the demand for further action/punishment is not necessary.
I actually do not like sledging between rugby players on the pitch. It seems to have taken off in recent years, is pointless and against the spirit of the game. Perhaps all verbal insults should be penalized by the ref with a penalty kick.
I'd also love to see penalties awarded against players who rub the head of an opponent who has just given away a penalty.

Good post that!

I've just read a newspaper article suggesting that the NUT are refusing to teach fundamental British values on the grounds that it is 'cultural supremacism' and might offend migrants. Instead, they will include 'international rights'. What a weird world we live in. Contextually the 'gypsy boy' outrage is hardly surprising.

I don't think you've understood what the NUT are saying. The "prevent" strategy is a fucking load of paranoid bollocks.

[Oakboy]

Not sure I've got this right, but it appears that Lee calls Marler a posh c**t and Marler calls Lee gypsy boy. Not sure of the sequence of who said what first. But one sounds about as bad as the other . You could well understand that these were snapped out spontaneously, probably without a lot of forethought, or alanysis of the actual content of the insult, or of its possible outcome, by a pair of het up props who were not thinking along politically correct lines at the time.
Marler seems to have come in for most flack since gypsies are regarded as a race in many (but not all) circles, and so his utterances are seen as racist.
On the other hand, posh c**ts (or even just plain c**ts) do not constitute a race, and so that epithet is not regarded as racist and therefore seems regarded as a lesser, and possibly acceptable insult, that is not appealable.
I can understand the point of view of those who think the whose business has got a little overblown and out of hand, and who believe the demand for further action/punishment is not necessary.
I actually do not like sledging between rugby players on the pitch. It seems to have taken off in recent years, is pointless and against the spirit of the game. Perhaps all verbal insults should be penalized by the ref with a penalty kick.
I'd also love to see penalties awarded against players who rub the head of an opponent who has just given away a penalty.

Good post that!

I've just read a newspaper article suggesting that the NUT are refusing to teach fundamental British values on the grounds that it is 'cultural supremacism' and might offend migrants. Instead, they will include 'international rights'. What a weird world we live in. Contextually the 'gypsy boy' outrage is hardly surprising.

I don't think you've understood what the NUT are saying. The "prevent" strategy is a fucking load of paranoid bollocks.

You are certainly right that I understand none of it and bow to your superior knowledge (genuinely).

[Stooo]

Good post that!

I've just read a newspaper article suggesting that the NUT are refusing to teach fundamental British values on the grounds that it is 'cultural supremacism' and might offend migrants. Instead, they will include 'international rights'. What a weird world we live in. Contextually the 'gypsy boy' outrage is hardly surprising.

I don't think you've understood what the NUT are saying. The "prevent" strategy is a fucking load of paranoid bollocks.

You are certainly right that I understand none of it and bow to your superior knowledge (genuinely).

What they are saying is that the training overwhelming adds paranoia and suspicion (of muslims) into the classroom.

It also (if followed) essentially turns teachers into some sort of weird secret service that is spying on children.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-scrapped is quite a good article on it (as this isn't really the place to discuss it)

The ofsted resources also cites Margaret thatcher as a British role model we should all try and be more like...

[Puja]

Good post that!

I've just read a newspaper article suggesting that the NUT are refusing to teach fundamental British values on the grounds that it is 'cultural supremacism' and might offend migrants. Instead, they will include 'international rights'. What a weird world we live in. Contextually the 'gypsy boy' outrage is hardly surprising.

I don't think you've understood what the NUT are saying. The "prevent" strategy is a fucking load of paranoid bollocks.

Stooo's right - that article you've read is a massive misrepresentation to elicit an "Oh no, the evil liberals are saying we have to sing Baa Baa Coloured Sheep, what a world!" It's a myth.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Not sure I've got this right, but it appears that Lee calls Marler a posh c**t and Marler calls Lee gypsy boy. Not sure of the sequence of who said what first. But one sounds about as bad as the other . You could well understand that these were snapped out spontaneously, probably without a lot of forethought, or alanysis of the actual content of the insult, or of its possible outcome, by a pair of het up props who were not thinking along politically correct lines at the time.
Marler seems to have come in for most flack since gypsies are regarded as a race in many (but not all) circles, and so his utterances are seen as racist.
On the other hand, posh c**ts (or even just plain c**ts) do not constitute a race, and so that epithet is not regarded as racist and therefore seems regarded as a lesser, and possibly acceptable insult, that is not appealable.
I can understand the point of view of those who think the whose business has got a little overblown and out of hand, and who believe the demand for further action/punishment is not necessary.
I actually do not like sledging between rugby players on the pitch. It seems to have taken off in recent years, is pointless and against the spirit of the game. Perhaps all verbal insults should be penalized by the ref with a penalty kick.
I'd also love to see penalties awarded against players who rub the head of an opponent who has just given away a penalty.

Absolutely.
I don't think anyone is particularly calling Marler racist, and (almost) certainly not knowingly so. I don't think anyone is saying that the insult was thought out beforehand and intended to hurt any more than any other insult.
However, one of the circles (but not all) in which gypsies are regarded as a race* is UK law.
You can insult someone as much as you like in public; but if you use a racial* slur, then you've stepped over a boundary; you haven't with words like "posh cunt" or "Saes bastard" etc etc. You've also done that whether or not you knew it was a racial* slur; whether or not you intended it that way; and whether or not you'd thought through your words before uttering them.
I think the issue of (most) of those calling for bans is NOT that we're offended on behalf of other people, it's that someone got away with using a racist insult on a rugby pitch, that was broadcast to millions - which is pretty much indisputable (there's room for disagreement that it SHOULD be considered racist, but not really that it IS)
A few years ago there was that hooker from South Africa who called Manu Tuilagi a "Paki" and claimed that he didn't think it was racist - he was wrong too.
Incidentally, I fully agree with your bit on sledging and provoking as well, and would happily see penalties etc reversed by such actions.

*Well, ethnicity IIRC

[Mellsblue]

Could just be that the truth is somewhere in the middle? The Guardian and Telegraph (I'm guessing that's where Dors read this) are well known to be on the opposite edges of the centre ground. The idea that the Guardian's article is any less bias than the Telegraph's is laughable.

'British values' include things such as:
democracy; the rule of law; individual liberty; mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith.

Doesn't sound too bad to me. Britain is one of the most tolerant, multi-cultural, integrated and outward looking countries in the world. To imbue those values in youngsters doesn't seem too mad to me. Even if you'd like to see it done by parents rather than by teachers who should be, well, teaching.

That teachers must report suspicions isn't ideal but we all know the days of teachers solely teaching have long gone. I bet the teachers at the 'Trojan Horse' schools wish they'd had official channels to report their worries. Conversely, there have already been examples of pupils being reported for the most idiotic of reasons.

The poster who thinks that Thatcher shouldn't be a role model - brought up above her father's shop, attending Oxbridge after attending state school and going on to become the first and only female PM, not to mention one of the longest serving - would point to their issue being politically rather than practically motivated.