Reality check

[no sleep]

Gray's captained Glasgow, hasn't he? Should be vocal when the shit's lapping over your boots.

[OptimisticJock]

He has but I was never impressed as he always seemed too quiet.

[Rich]

...we have to understand why our backrow was nowhere to be seen for 40 minutes.

Scotland play far better at home than on the road.


Your back row just wasn't up for it against the hungrier Welsh.


Your half backs wouldn't get near the England, Welsh or Irish squads.


Bottom line, Wales matched Scotland for physicality and with no physical edge, Scotland offer nothing.

[Edinburgh in Exile]

...we have to understand why our backrow was nowhere to be seen for 40 minutes.

Scotland play far better at home than on the road.


Your back row just wasn't up for it against the hungrier Welsh.


Your half backs wouldn't get near the England, Welsh or Irish squads.


Bottom line, Wales matched Scotland for physicality and with no physical edge, Scotland offer nothing.

That’s a tediously redundant statement.

[OptimisticJock]

...we have to understand why our backrow was nowhere to be seen for 40 minutes.

Scotland play far better at home than on the road.


Your back row just wasn't up for it against the hungrier Welsh.


Your half backs wouldn't get near the England, Welsh or Irish squads.


Bottom line, Wales matched Scotland for physicality and with no physical edge, Scotland offer nothing.

Cheers dits

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I guess Toony and the guys are happy with Russell going for long kicks at penas: it's a risk, but the payoffs can be good, and if it goes wrong, it's still high-tempo so fits in with the style of play. But at 14 down and the team needs to get in to the game, I'd expect the skipper to step up and say just make sure here. I think the issue's more about on-field leadership than just Russell's kicking.

That's the thing though. Russell took the ball and booted it while people were still on the floor.

[Adder]

I guess Toony and the guys are happy with Russell going for long kicks at penas: it's a risk, but the payoffs can be good, and if it goes wrong, it's still high-tempo so fits in with the style of play. But at 14 down and the team needs to get in to the game, I'd expect the skipper to step up and say just make sure here. I think the issue's more about on-field leadership than just Russell's kicking.

That's the thing though. Russell took the ball and booted it while people were still on the floor.

Surely that would be due to Scotland's desire to keep the tempo up? Scots looked exhausted 60 minutes in.

[Mikey Brown]

I guess Toony and the guys are happy with Russell going for long kicks at penas: it's a risk, but the payoffs can be good, and if it goes wrong, it's still high-tempo so fits in with the style of play. But at 14 down and the team needs to get in to the game, I'd expect the skipper to step up and say just make sure here. I think the issue's more about on-field leadership than just Russell's kicking.

That's the thing though. Russell took the ball and booted it while people were still on the floor.

Surely that would be due to Scotland's desire to keep the tempo up? Scots looked exhausted 60 minutes in.

Yup. The Welsh really let us walk in to that trap. We need to look at how the ABs decide when and where to attack. I don’t know if our handling will be that bad again but basically any team could copy what Wales did on Saturday.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I guess Toony and the guys are happy with Russell going for long kicks at penas: it's a risk, but the payoffs can be good, and if it goes wrong, it's still high-tempo so fits in with the style of play. But at 14 down and the team needs to get in to the game, I'd expect the skipper to step up and say just make sure here. I think the issue's more about on-field leadership than just Russell's kicking.

That's the thing though. Russell took the ball and booted it while people were still on the floor.

Surely that would be due to Scotland's desire to keep the tempo up? Scots looked exhausted 60 minutes in.

I don't see how kicking a pen to touch affects the tempo in any way whatsoever? 1 min or 1 sec the result is the take. Either way they kept the tempo up alright, Wales ran it straight back.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Gray's captained Glasgow, hasn't he? Should be vocal when the shit's lapping over your boots.

He's an awful Glasgow captain as well so not really relevant.

[whatisthejava]

My take on the weekend

Caveat - I was at the match so didnt get the benefit of the commentry or multiple TV angles.

After we went down the guys went into their shells a wee bit, we stopped offloading which meant we stopped sucking defenders in which made the problem worse, to compensate i think both Russel and Price double downed on the play fast game and it just went pear shaped but i think the real kicker is that the game reminded me so much of the sarries vs Glasgow game last year, sarries and Wales did the exact same thing, snuffled out the ball and Price and Russel just didnt adjust, I think this shows a real problem with Townsend that he is not willing to move away from Russel when the shit hits the fan.

Im going to give two and a bitoptions that he could have done and for me needs to actively look at because although i dont think France will beat us England will do the exact same to us and we need to change it up so they cant.

1 Horne should have come on for Harries far earlier and played second distributor either splitting with Russel or pushing jones out to the wider channels where there was a bit more space - seen this work for Glasgow and the fact that Townsend didnt do this for me shows that they never practiced this at all during the previous two weeks to be confident of trying it

2 Sub Russel - I get Russel is our best 10 but when its not working for him he doesnt have any other option but to keep trying the same, At 60 mins i felt Russel needed to be hooked to give us some structure, for me there were 3 guys that could have brought some structure to our team Horne, Hogg or laidlaw, none of them are as good as Russel when its going well but yesterday we needed to go and play a bit more structure make some space, tire defenders and we would have scored some points

Cotter was also afraid to sub Russel but we need Plan B and Russel cant be it, i dont think France has the stamina to defend the same way against us as Wales and they know their stamina isnt there so i think we can stick with the current plan with a realistic plan to swop Russel if he doesnt calm down a bit but against England id almost be tempted to start Horne and then bring Russel in with 25 to go when both teams are a wee bit tired and try and open the game up.

I cant remember a worse game of rugby and a weirder atmosphere in the stadium, there was almost silence for 60 mins as the entire crowd watched a glorified game of 7s

Things went pear shaped when we swopped the subs on and for 25 mins in the second half when we needed the ball i dont think we got past 2 phases before we did something stupid

it also looked like a set game plan for Hogg to give it to Mquiggon and foir Mcquiggon to run forward try and side step a smaller faster more agile player and then get caught standing still

Last point for me is we play a hell of alot of rugby between the outside centre and 14 winger. we did it under Cotter and we do it alot under Townself, the result is Seymore sees less ball, i think it was an absolute insane move by Townsend to have 2 guys with 1 cap each in such a crucial position, again Harries (who may be a good player in space) was given a crucial role and couldnt deliver and Mcquiggon just looked to big and slow against the Wales outside backs

Townsend is bloody lucky he has France as they are the least likly to be able to press the Scotland team for 80 mins but then he has 2 weeks after to find a suitable method to change the game plan against a England team

[OptimisticJock]

Caveat? Fucking Caveat? If Rowan comes onto this thread because of that word you're banned.

[whatisthejava]

Caveat? Fucking Caveat? If Rowan comes onto this thread because of that word you're banned.

I honestly thought you were dead

Im not watching that shitfest again so you have my drunken memory of it

[hugh_woatmeigh]

i think the real kicker is that the game reminded me so much of the sarries vs Glasgow game last year, sarries and Wales did the exact same thing, snuffled out the ball and Price and Russel just didnt adjust

This has to be the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read on RR to date, sorry Java. You make some great points and I'm sorry to sidetrack the thread but this is utter shat and and you know it and I feel I have to correct you here.

Glasgow were beaten by a better team with better men in almost every position all over the park. They still gave it a shot, were competitive for most of the game and played out of their skins. They had belief throughout the match and didn't accept defeat until the very last few minutes. Going into the last few minutes it was 21-8 to Saracens IIRC. After being bruised by one of the biggest teams in Europe for 70 mins, Glasgow capitulated. No bother. It happens. Gloss was added to the scoreline in that last 10 mins as Sarries tore them a new one.

In contrast Scotland gave up after the first couple of scores and never once looked like they could get a foothold back in the game. They capitulated after the first few minutes! Wales did not batter us up front, they were not clinical or ruthless. All they had to do was sit back and wait as we ran laterally, up blind alleys, knocked on, thew passes to nobody, etc. Regain the possession and convert their chances as and when they came there way. Saracens had to fight tooth and nail for every single score they got on that board last year, Java. Did Wales? No chance. Still a fantastic scoreline for them and I applaud them for it.

If that comes across as belittling to Wales - it is not the intention.

[whatisthejava]

i think the real kicker is that the game reminded me so much of the sarries vs Glasgow game last year, sarries and Wales did the exact same thing, snuffled out the ball and Price and Russel just didnt adjust

This has to be the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read on RR to date, sorry Java. You make some great points and I'm sorry to sidetrack the thread but this is utter shat and and you know it and I feel I have to correct you here.

Glasgow were beaten by a better team with better men in almost every position all over the park. They still gave it a shot, were competitive for most of the game and played out of their skins. They had belief throughout the match and didn't accept defeat until the very last few minutes. Going into the last few minutes it was 21-8 to Saracens IIRC. After being bruised by one of the biggest teams in Europe for 70 mins, Glasgow capitulated. No bother. It happens. Gloss was added to the scoreline in that last 10 mins as Sarries tore them a new one.

In contrast Scotland gave up after the first couple of scores and never once looked like they could get a foothold back in the game. They capitulated after the first few minutes! Wales did not batter us up front, they were not clinical or ruthless. All they had to do was sit back and wait as we ran laterally, up blind alleys, knocked on, thew passes to nobody, etc. Regain the possession and convert their chances as and when they came there way. Saracens had to fight tooth and nail for every single score they got on that board last year, Java. Did Wales? No chance. Still a fantastic scoreline for them and I applaud them for it.

If that comes across as belittling to Wales - it is not the intention.

Could have been more clear, what Sarries did to Glasgow and what Wales did to Scotland was they both had a very good rush defence that took away our backs space, while Glasgow managed it slightly better than Scotland, it still pretty much cemented Gatlands feelings about certain Scottish players and in all honestly I dont think Glasgow were anywhere near winning against Sarries that day

The problem is this is a big red flag to anyone who wants to beat Scotland that they rush Russell , press the men outside and we are screwed, I couldnt work out why Scotland never adjusted yesterday and just got further depth and then attempted to beat the men but this would be a change to the plan and the guys showed they cant do this.

I love alot about this Scotland team but when crap goes wrong i dont think we have 1 player in the forwards that stands up and lays it on the line.

[switchskier]

Reality checks:

- we didn't have a good ball carrier on the park and, though he's a really young prop, we missed Faegerson for this.
- McInally was very poor after a season where he's been great. Don't know what went wrong for him but he needs to prove himself at this level again
- There is a reason that CDP was never really in contention for SA caps

[Chunks Baws]

My take on the weekend

Caveat - I was at the match so didnt get the benefit of the commentry or multiple TV angles.

After we went down the guys went into their shells a wee bit, we stopped offloading which meant we stopped sucking defenders in which made the problem worse, to compensate i think both Russel and Price double downed on the play fast game and it just went pear shaped but i think the real kicker is that the game reminded me so much of the sarries vs Glasgow game last year, sarries and Wales did the exact same thing, snuffled out the ball and Price and Russel just didnt adjust, I think this shows a real problem with Townsend that he is not willing to move away from Russel when the shit hits the fan.

Im going to give two and a bitoptions that he could have done and for me needs to actively look at because although i dont think France will beat us England will do the exact same to us and we need to change it up so they cant.

1 Horne should have come on for Harries far earlier and played second distributor either splitting with Russel or pushing jones out to the wider channels where there was a bit more space - seen this work for Glasgow and the fact that Townsend didnt do this for me shows that they never practiced this at all during the previous two weeks to be confident of trying it

2 Sub Russel - I get Russel is our best 10 but when its not working for him he doesnt have any other option but to keep trying the same, At 60 mins i felt Russel needed to be hooked to give us some structure, for me there were 3 guys that could have brought some structure to our team Horne, Hogg or laidlaw, none of them are as good as Russel when its going well but yesterday we needed to go and play a bit more structure make some space, tire defenders and we would have scored some points

Cotter was also afraid to sub Russel but we need Plan B and Russel cant be it, i dont think France has the stamina to defend the same way against us as Wales and they know their stamina isnt there so i think we can stick with the current plan with a realistic plan to swop Russel if he doesnt calm down a bit but against England id almost be tempted to start Horne and then bring Russel in with 25 to go when both teams are a wee bit tired and try and open the game up.

I cant remember a worse game of rugby and a weirder atmosphere in the stadium, there was almost silence for 60 mins as the entire crowd watched a glorified game of 7s

Things went pear shaped when we swopped the subs on and for 25 mins in the second half when we needed the ball i dont think we got past 2 phases before we did something stupid

it also looked like a set game plan for Hogg to give it to Mquiggon and foir Mcquiggon to run forward try and side step a smaller faster more agile player and then get caught standing still

Last point for me is we play a hell of alot of rugby between the outside centre and 14 winger. we did it under Cotter and we do it alot under Townself, the result is Seymore sees less ball, i think it was an absolute insane move by Townsend to have 2 guys with 1 cap each in such a crucial position, again Harries (who may be a good player in space) was given a crucial role and couldnt deliver and Mcquiggon just looked to big and slow against the Wales outside backs

Townsend is bloody lucky he has France as they are the least likly to be able to press the Scotland team for 80 mins but then he has 2 weeks after to find a suitable method to change the game plan against a England team

How did you find Cardiff after the game? I thought the bouncers at a lot of the pubs were hostile twats. And not just to Scottish fans. It was like a lot of the pubs just didn't want rugby fans to come in. I might stay elsewhere if I go down there again.

[whatisthejava]

How did you find Cardiff after the game? I thought the bouncers at a lot of the pubs were hostile twats. And not just to Scottish fans. It was like a lot of the pubs just didn't want rugby fans to come in. I might stay elsewhere if I go down there again.

St marys street and surrounding areas were ok but we were a small group of mid 30 guys who look far to tired to cause trouble, i certainly didnt notice any problem but I also didnt go near the Soda end of St marys street which seems to be the George Street of Cardiff where i have had bouncers in the past be dicks about rugby fans

[Chunks Baws]

How did you find Cardiff after the game? I thought the bouncers at a lot of the pubs were hostile twats. And not just to Scottish fans. It was like a lot of the pubs just didn't want rugby fans to come in. I might stay elsewhere if I go down there again.

St marys street and surrounding areas were ok but we were a small group of mid 30 guys who look far to tired to cause trouble, i certainly didnt notice any problem but I also didnt go near the Soda end of St marys street which seems to be the George Street of Cardiff where i have had bouncers in the past be dicks about rugby fans

Mill Lane....yeah I stay well away from that end. We were up the other end, just off St Marys street. Maybe they'd just had enough by that point but they seemed to be the ones causing the issues rather than preventing them.

[Big D]

Reality checks:

- we didn't have a good ball carrier on the park and, though he's a really young prop, we missed Faegerson for this.
- McInally was very poor after a season where he's been great. Don't know what went wrong for him but he needs to prove himself at this level again
- There is a reason that CDP was never really in contention for SA caps

I didn't think Rambo was as bad as several others. 2 or 3 line out losses that weren't all down to him IIRC, scrcummaged pretty well and was one of the more prominent defenders.

[OptimisticJock]

Its curious how the default is to blame the hooker.

[Scrumhead]

Reality checks:

- we didn't have a good ball carrier on the park and, though he's a really young prop, we missed Faegerson for this.
- McInally was very poor after a season where he's been great. Don't know what went wrong for him but he needs to prove himself at this level again
- There is a reason that CDP was never really in contention for SA caps

All good points.

One of the key takeaways from the AIs was how well your props carried. Fagerson, Marfo and Bhatti all caught the eye. No one did on Saturday.

Du Preez just doesn’t look like a test calibre 8 IMO. Strauss, Wilson, Denton or even Hamilton have all looked a lot better in a Scotland jersey. Surely Bradbury is your long-term option though?

McInally had an off day at the lineout, but at least he was putting himself about in defence and attack.

[Rich]

That’s a tediously redundant statement.

True though, backed up by Lions selection last year.

[Mikey Brown]

That’s a tediously redundant statement.

True though, backed up by Lions selection last year.

Jesus. You really doubled down on that one didn’t you.

[Edinburgh in Exile]

That’s a tediously redundant statement.

True though, backed up by Lions selection last year.

Jesus. You really doubled down on that one didn’t you.

Hahahaha.