Sarries vs Leinster

[padprop]

Its quite funny how the champions cup really does reflect six nations, or maybe the six nations reflects the champions cup. England had a load of quarter finalists last year and the winner, but now only had 1 quarter finalist who was comfortably beaten and ended up 5th in the six nations.

Maybe the best plan for english rugby us to just have Exeter, Wasps, Sarries and Leicester competing at a high level in Europe, and that big game mentality and confidence will trickle down into the national side.

[Mikey Brown]

I’m glad to see EJ has truly dealt with our irritating problem of having too many good English locks.

[p/d]

Peroxide blonde lad or ‘Johnny thing at Exeter’..... long may he remain only known as that.

Skinner looks good as does Kvesic

[Scrumhead]

Its quite funny how the champions cup really does reflect six nations, or maybe the six nations reflects the champions cup. England had a load of quarter finalists last year and the winner, but now only had 1 quarter finalist who was comfortably beaten and ended up 5th in the six nations.

Maybe the best plan for english rugby us to just have Exeter, Wasps, Sarries and Leicester competing at a high level in Europe, and that big game mentality and confidence will trickle down into the national side.

It doesn’t work like that when we have a 12 team league where the clubs are not set-up with the national side being a significant part of their purpose for existing.

[kk67]

If you compared how Garces has reffed the breakdown in this match and Owens reffed the breakdown in Scotland v England you’d think they were playing under different laws.

On behalf of KK67.....FECK OFF!!!

Proper quality, JG. Nige changed the world, JG redeems us.

I haven't seen the game but there is a cigarette paper between Nigel and Jerome.
If anyone were to think they're wildly different refs, they'd be stupendously wrong.

[Mellsblue]

On behalf of KK67.....FECK OFF!!!

Proper quality, JG. Nige changed the world, JG redeems us.

I haven't seen the game

Good point.

[Digby]

Proper quality, JG. Nige changed the world, JG redeems us.

I haven't seen the game

Good point.

Could be an April Fool pun

[Oakboy]

Just based on this weekend i'd have Green, Robinson and Slater ahead of Kruis. His form has fallen off a cliff.

Give him the summer off in the hope he comes back physically and mentally recharged.

I’m not sure where the intense dislike of Hill comes from. I think he’s quite good ...

Isn’t that thre point. He’s ‘quite good’ but he’s allegedly the sixth best EQ lock.

I agree that it is the point but in a straight head-to-head based on current form, I'd take Hill over Kruis. I'd cheerfully accept other candidates' claims ahead of Hill but they'd have to make cases for being part of more effective 2nd row partnerships than Hill's with Exeter.

[Mellsblue]

Farrell: 8 tackles, 4 missed.

[fivepointer]

yeah but test match animal......

he was pretty awful i thought. probably not really fit in fairness.

[Banquo]

Horrible 3rd quarter did for Saracens. They will be very disappointed to concede the tries the way they did, and to make uncharacteristic mistakes. They are not at their best.
Farrell probably not fit, Kruis has lost his edge completely and Burger is coasting in his retirement. Does Bosch offer anything at all as an attacker? They need to refresh the squad for next season.
On the plus side Mako was great, Isiekwe impressive. Spencer and Lozowski improved things from the bench.

Sarries lack pace in the backs, specifically 9,10, midfield, some tired players and Burger is well past his sell by date. Despite all that it was a bad 15-16 minutes cost them, including the last minute of the 1st half.

Leinster looked much more threatening with the ball, and their defence was outstanding; the contrast between Sexton and Faz was pretty stark too, tho Faz wasn't fit apparently.

[Banquo]

Well respectfully I disagree. He knows Williams can step inside him and get to the line so he's going for brute force stopping power and swinging the shoulder in. He's already committed. Williams slips in the act of stepping which is why there's contact with the head - which I agree was completely unavoidable.

I immediately said 'yellow card' in real time and, based on the season's precedents, saw no reason to change my mind. Avoidable shoulder to head, IMO. All sorts of excuses but none convincing.

I agree, for all that Williams slipped and Kearney couldn't react, he was still approaching contact in an unmeasured way. Mind, the no arms 'chop' tackle seemed to be de rigeur all game anyway, again with not much thought of wrapping arms, just throwing body at opposition knees. There will be a bad injury sooner or later.

[Banquo]

Its quite funny how the champions cup really does reflect six nations, or maybe the six nations reflects the champions cup. England had a load of quarter finalists last year and the winner, but now only had 1 quarter finalist who was comfortably beaten and ended up 5th in the six nations.

Maybe the best plan for english rugby us to just have Exeter, Wasps, Sarries and Leicester competing at a high level in Europe, and that big game mentality and confidence will trickle down into the national side.

It doesn’t work like that when we have a 12 team league where the clubs are not set-up with the national side being a significant part of their purpose for existing.

Well quite, see huge ramble on the EPS form thread,

[fivepointer]

Well respectfully I disagree. He knows Williams can step inside him and get to the line so he's going for brute force stopping power and swinging the shoulder in. He's already committed. Williams slips in the act of stepping which is why there's contact with the head - which I agree was completely unavoidable.

I immediately said 'yellow card' in real time and, based on the season's precedents, saw no reason to change my mind. Avoidable shoulder to head, IMO. All sorts of excuses but none convincing.

I agree, for all that Williams slipped and Kearney couldn't react, he was still approaching contact in an unmeasured way. Mind, the no arms 'chop' tackle seemed to be de rigeur all game anyway, again with not much thought of wrapping arms, just throwing body at opposition knees. There will be a bad injury sooner or later.

Glad someone else noticed the no arms "chop" tackles. There were 3 from Leinster in the first 10 minutes that went unpunished and seemingly unnoticed by the commentary team.

[Mellsblue]

I immediately said 'yellow card' in real time and, based on the season's precedents, saw no reason to change my mind. Avoidable shoulder to head, IMO. All sorts of excuses but none convincing.

I agree, for all that Williams slipped and Kearney couldn't react, he was still approaching contact in an unmeasured way. Mind, the no arms 'chop' tackle seemed to be de rigeur all game anyway, again with not much thought of wrapping arms, just throwing body at opposition knees. There will be a bad injury sooner or later.

Glad someone else noticed the no arms "chop" tackles. There were 3 from Leinster in the first 10 minutes that went unpunished and seemingly unnoticed by the commentary team.

I mentioned it on here at the time and just as I posted Kay mentioned them, saying they were very effective and legal. I’d agree with the first assertion but not the latter.

[Mellsblue]

Its quite funny how the champions cup really does reflect six nations, or maybe the six nations reflects the champions cup. England had a load of quarter finalists last year and the winner, but now only had 1 quarter finalist who was comfortably beaten and ended up 5th in the six nations.

Maybe the best plan for english rugby us to just have Exeter, Wasps, Sarries and Leicester competing at a high level in Europe, and that big game mentality and confidence will trickle down into the national side.

It doesn’t work like that when we have a 12 team league where the clubs are not set-up with the national side being a significant part of their purpose for existing.

Well quite, see huge ramble on the EPS form thread,

‘Ramble’ seems overly kindly.

[fivepointer]

I agree, for all that Williams slipped and Kearney couldn't react, he was still approaching contact in an unmeasured way. Mind, the no arms 'chop' tackle seemed to be de rigeur all game anyway, again with not much thought of wrapping arms, just throwing body at opposition knees. There will be a bad injury sooner or later.

Glad someone else noticed the no arms "chop" tackles. There were 3 from Leinster in the first 10 minutes that went unpunished and seemingly unnoticed by the commentary team.

I mentioned it on here at the time and just as I posted Kay mentioned them, saying they were very effective and legal. I’d agree with the first assertion but not the latter.

you did. sorry i didnt check the comments earlier in the thread. i saw them as definitely illegal, and quite dangerous.

[Mellsblue]

Glad someone else noticed the no arms "chop" tackles. There were 3 from Leinster in the first 10 minutes that went unpunished and seemingly unnoticed by the commentary team.

I mentioned it on here at the time and just as I posted Kay mentioned them, saying they were very effective and legal. I’d agree with the first assertion but not the latter.

you did. sorry i didnt check the comments earlier in the thread. i saw them as definitely illegal, and quite dangerous.

I wasn’t trying to pick you up on not reading my posts - after the discussion on ring fencing I’m suprised you read this single post - and, yes, very dangerous.

[Oakboy]

Horrible 3rd quarter did for Saracens. They will be very disappointed to concede the tries the way they did, and to make uncharacteristic mistakes. They are not at their best.
Farrell probably not fit, Kruis has lost his edge completely and Burger is coasting in his retirement. Does Bosch offer anything at all as an attacker? They need to refresh the squad for next season.
On the plus side Mako was great, Isiekwe impressive. Spencer and Lozowski improved things from the bench.

Sarries lack pace in the backs, specifically 9,10, midfield, some tired players and Burger is well past his sell by date. Despite all that it was a bad 15-16 minutes cost them, including the last minute of the 1st half.

Leinster looked much more threatening with the ball, and their defence was outstanding; the contrast between Sexton and Faz was pretty stark too, tho Faz wasn't fit apparently.

What I don't understand is how Farrell can be rated so highly that, partially fit, he is believed to be a better FH than a fully fit Lozowski. We know the Farrell hype is huge but surely it only has credibility if the guy is properly fit. Why not start him on the bench? I also believe that Spencer is better than Wigglesworth in a straight comparison at present and I am quite certain that Spencer + Lozowski would have caused Leinster more problems than Wigglesworth + Farrell on the day.

[Digby]

Its quite funny how the champions cup really does reflect six nations, or maybe the six nations reflects the champions cup.

Sometimes for England and Ireland, Scotland and Italy rarely enter the debate, and France and Wales might even suggest the opposite of England and Ireland. You'd have to be very selective in how you drew out facts to support a notion the two tournaments much mirror each other

[Mellsblue]

Horrible 3rd quarter did for Saracens. They will be very disappointed to concede the tries the way they did, and to make uncharacteristic mistakes. They are not at their best.
Farrell probably not fit, Kruis has lost his edge completely and Burger is coasting in his retirement. Does Bosch offer anything at all as an attacker? They need to refresh the squad for next season.
On the plus side Mako was great, Isiekwe impressive. Spencer and Lozowski improved things from the bench.

Sarries lack pace in the backs, specifically 9,10, midfield, some tired players and Burger is well past his sell by date. Despite all that it was a bad 15-16 minutes cost them, including the last minute of the 1st half.

Leinster looked much more threatening with the ball, and their defence was outstanding; the contrast between Sexton and Faz was pretty stark too, tho Faz wasn't fit apparently.

What I don't understand is how Farrell can be rated so highly that, partially fit, he is believed to be a better FH than a fully fit Lozowski. We know the Farrell hype is huge but surely it only has credibility if the guy is properly fit. Why not start him on the bench? I also believe that Spencer is better than Wigglesworth in a straight comparison at present and I am quite certain that Spencer + Lozowski would have caused Leinster more problems than Wigglesworth + Farrell on the day.

It was notable that Spencer came on a lot earlier then you would expect. I’m not convinced Lozowski is a flyhalf, thoughbhe couldnt have been worse than Farrell was yesterday.

[Digby]

Lozowski doesn't manage a game remotely in the same fashion as Farrell, he looks much more about individual phases and even individual plays. And yes, it might be he's not even best suited as a 10, whether 12 or 15 would see him play more and play at a higher level I don't know

[Peej]

Agree entirely about the chop tackles, for what it's worth. More often than not they're taking the form of low flying shoulders to the runners' knees

[kk67]

I'd say they're usually well below the knees.
There is a difference between two forwards, who've barely gathered momentum, and Harry Ellis targeting the opposition fly-half's standing leg.
I'm not a fan of the tackle but it is usually at very close quarters and in slow motion.