More on Syria

[Digby]

'tis a good point the Russians could stop blocking sensible investigations.

[rowan]

& the Americans and British should discontinue their genocidal wars which have butchered millions of people across the Middle East.

'We have declared a worldwide war on Muslims. Muslims, who read us better than we read ourselves, are rising up to resist. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the Middle East have been butchered since our invasion of Afghanistan. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya have been destroyed as viable states. Millions of Muslims have been displaced or are refugees.'

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-c ... e-muslims/

In fact, Russia has always supported a proper investigation into the use of chemical weapons in Syria. What it has vetoed are biased reports. Indeed, one of those reports blamed Assad outright, yet the Americans themselves were subsequently forced to backtrack on its claims and concede there was no evidence at all. Investigative journalists and independent journalists on the ground in Syria have also disagreed with the reports.

The U.S. has no evidence to confirm reports from aid groups and others that the Syrian government has used the deadly chemical sarin on its citizens, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Friday.

“We have other reports from the battlefield from people who claim it’s been used,” Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon. “We do not have evidence of it.”

https://www.apnews.com/bd533182b7f244a4b771c73a0b601ec5

[Zhivago]

Another point re propaganda, why is Russia described as having proxies in the region but that term isnt used for any of the West (e.g. US proxies)....?

[rowan]

Another point re propaganda, why is Russia described as having proxies in the region but that term isnt used for any of the West (e.g. US proxies)....?

Standard practice is to invert the truth. Our glorious leader refers to pro-government rebels as terrorists - including those who have been to the forefront in actually fighting ISIS (US-backed proxies). Incidentally, our glorious leader has received standing ovations on TV today for his thunderous condemnations of Assad and is promising a crushing response. So the anti-Assad brigade are in excellent company

[Digby]

There isn't in fairness a cogent argument set out by the West as to why we wouldn't accept the use of chemical weapons by Assad but will accept the Syrian dictatorship murdering their own civilians with conventional weapons.

[rowan]

Digby must be in the crowd there somewhere . . .

[Mellsblue]

My, and countless others, theory that if you agree with Nick Griffin you are on the wrong side of the argument is still standing the test of time:

[rowan]

Craig Murray's latest:

I do rule out the possibility that Assad is dropping chemical weapons in Ghouta. In this extraordinary war, where Saudi-funded jihadist head choppers have Israeli air support and US and UK military “advisers”, every time the Syrian army is about to take complete control of a major jihadist enclave, at the last moment when victory is in their grasp, the Syrian Army allegedly attacks children with chemical weapons, for no military reason at all. We have been fed this narrative again and again and again.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... sh-to-war/

[Zhivago]

My, and countless others, theory that if you agree with Nick Griffin you are on the wrong side of the argument is still standing the test of time:

It's not relevant.

[Zhivago]

There isn't in fairness a cogent argument set out by the West as to why we wouldn't accept the use of chemical weapons by Assad but will accept the Syrian dictatorship murdering their own civilians with conventional weapons.

Alleged *

[Digby]

My, and countless others, theory that if you agree with Nick Griffin you are on the wrong side of the argument is still standing the test of time:

At the point you're in agreement with George Galloway and Nick Griffin it's time to reach for the vomit bowel and then try to move on from being such a waste of oxygen

[Zhivago]

My, and countless others, theory that if you agree with Nick Griffin you are on the wrong side of the argument is still standing the test of time:

At the point you're in agreement with George Galloway and Nick Griffin it's time to reach for the vomit bowel and then try to move on from being such a waste of oxygen

That's just nonsense. Are you saying that if such a person like Griffin or Galloway advocates saving the NHS for example, then that would make anyone else also advocating that a "waste of oxygen"?

It's a nonsense argument for simplistic fools.

[fivepointer]

This guy probably knows a bit more about Syria than the one time diplomat Craig Murray.

"On Saturday, the Russian press, at least, reported that Army of Islam spokesmen boasted that the special operations Panther Forces (Quwwat al-Nimr) that had been committed against Ghouta militias were taking high numbers of casualties from Army of Islam snipers as they tried to advance into Douma. The regime has suffered a military collapse over the past 7 years, with most Sunni Arabs deserting or defecting. Alawi Shiite troops are for the most part loyal to the regime, but there may be only 35,000 or 50,000 of them left (the Syrian Arab Army had 300,000 troops in 2010).

The long and the short of it is that strongman Bashar al-Assad cannot afford to lose highly trained and highly valuable Panther Forces troops in large numbers.

Chemical weapons are used by desperate regimes that are either outnumbered by the enemy or are reluctant to take casualties in their militaries"

https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/syrian ... clave.html

[Zhivago]

This guy probably knows a bit more about Syria than the one time diplomat Craig Murray.

"On Saturday, the Russian press, at least, reported that Army of Islam spokesmen boasted that the special operations Panther Forces (Quwwat al-Nimr) that had been committed against Ghouta militias were taking high numbers of casualties from Army of Islam snipers as they tried to advance into Douma. The regime has suffered a military collapse over the past 7 years, with most Sunni Arabs deserting or defecting. Alawi Shiite troops are for the most part loyal to the regime, but there may be only 35,000 or 50,000 of them left (the Syrian Arab Army had 300,000 troops in 2010).

The long and the short of it is that strongman Bashar al-Assad cannot afford to lose highly trained and highly valuable Panther Forces troops in large numbers.

Chemical weapons are used by desperate regimes that are either outnumbered by the enemy or are reluctant to take casualties in their militaries"

https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/syrian ... clave.html

That is interesting.

[Zhivago]

Again we rush to judgement, with no possibility of an investigation...

Well if the Russians would stop using their veto to block any investigation by the UN we might have a better chance of finding out some semblance of truth.

https://tinyurl.com/y9bt8h32

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... un-inquiry

[canta_brian]

Again we rush to judgement, with no possibility of an investigation...

Well if the Russians would stop using their veto to block any investigation by the UN we might have a better chance of finding out some semblance of truth.

https://tinyurl.com/y9bt8h32

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... un-inquiry

That's good. The reports this morning suggested they were looking to block an enquiry.

Hopefully a representative panel of experts can be sent that everyone agrees to accept the findings of. I have to admit, I am not holding my breath on that.

[canta_brian]

Good news, this one will be simple yo resolve as everyone is after the same thing.

https://tinyurl.com/ya73b9sv

[rowan]

Interesting article, especially this part:

Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, has said Moscow will table a UN resolution calling for an independent inquiry into the chemical weapons attack in the Syrian town of Douma.

The announcement came as the White House said Donald Trump will skip an upcoming summit in South America to “oversee the American response to Syria and to monitor developments around the world”.

The US president is consulting his British and French allies on a potential military strike on Syria after the use of chemical weapons in the Douma, the last rebel-held area of eastern Ghouta. Syrian opposition rescue workers and medics said more than 40 people died and hundreds injured in the poison gas attack.

Speaking in Moscow, Lavrov appeared to pre-empt a possible western strike on Syria, announcing that Russia would propose a “transparent and honest” investigation at the security council on Tuesday, with the involvement of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. Moscow has previously insisted there was no evidence for a chemical attack.

“If, under the pretext of a lack of security guarantees, those who employ anti-Russian arguments to pursue their Russophobic aims do not allow experts to come, then it will be a verdict on their true plans and show that they have no interest in establishing the truth,” Lavrov said.

The Syrian regime, which has denied any involvement in the attack, said on Tuesday that it has invited the chemical weapons watchdog to send a fact-finding mission into the country.

Western countries are likely to be wary of a Russian proposal that would give its ally, the Syrian government, an upper hand over investigations on its territory. The US is to table its own resolution at the UN on the terms of an inquiry on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... un-inquiry[/quote]

[morepork]

John Bolton must be cumming in his pants over this.

[Digby]

Given the pause to argue over who controls access to an investigation, terms of reference and so on there should be a good little while for Assad to crack on killing some more civilians and journos

[kk67]

It is precisely because it represents the very frontline of Russian/US economic interests that it has become the nightmare we currently are suffering. All the religious and tribal problems are just bollocks propaganda.

[rowan]

If Trump launches cruise missiles on Syria for any reason it will be a war crime borne of arrogance, racism, hypocrisy and malice.

Arrogance because nobody appointed the US world policeman, and surely the last nation they would wish to appoint is the one which has bombed scores of countries since WWII, killing millions and torturing untold more, while propping up brutal dictatorships all over the world. That would be akin to appointing Jack the Ripper head of your neighborhood watch group.

Racist because the US is a white Christian-dominated super power and Syria is a relatively small Arab Muslim-dominated country. The US has now bombed an entire swathe of Islamic nations, while completely overlooking war crimes against Muslim populations in Palestine, Myanmar and the Central African Republic, for instance.

Hypocrisy because the US itself has committed countless war crimes all around the world without ever once being held accountable. The 2003 invasion of Iraq is estimated to have led to 2.4 million deaths. The destruction of Libya was also based on lies, Wikileaks have revealed. But who's in the Hague? Who's going to launch a cruise missile at the US to 'punish' them?

& malice because the only objective a missile strike on Syria could have is to kill and maim. What kind of a solution is that? Do we now live in a world where nations take it upon themselves to bomb each other as 'punishment?' Might makes right? White makes right? America is taking us back to the age of barbarity.

This article offers an excellent insight into the situation in Syria:

President Donald Trump declared last week that the US will get out of Syria “soon,” on the heels of halting $200 million of taxpayer money to reconstruct the war-ravaged country. Naturally, this pair of announcements set off alarm bells within the US military, corporate media, and think-tank establishment, as well as among allies that want Washington to maintain its military occupation of Syria and the Middle East.

“We believe American troops should stay for at least the mid-term, if not the long-term,” said the Saudi Crown Prince, who wants to use US military power to counter Iran in their competition for regional hegemony. Israeli and European allies echo that sentiment.

However, Trump wants regional countries such as Saudi Arabia to play a greater role and pick up the bigger portion of the bill in Syria, and for Europeans to do more since displaced Syrians mainly wind up as refugees in Europe. Many Syrians are also fleeing jihad at home to neighboring Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, and Turkey. With Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE and other wealthy Arab Gulf states agitating for regime change and increased military escalation, one ponders how many refugees they have taken? According to director of Human Rights Watch Kenneth Roth, zero.

Even worse, Riyadh is creating thousands of refugees of its own by bombing Yemen, a campaign that has already killed more than 10,000 civilians and wounded 40,000 others, including 135 at a wedding party, mostly women and children.

There are actually various legitimate reasons for Trump to pull back from Syria: a $21 trillion national debt bomb; the riskiness of the US dollar as a fiat currency that solely relies on confidence in the government and is not backed by actual gold or silver; crumbling domestic infrastructure that needs a complete overhaul; $5 trillion of taxpayer money spent in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan alone that is projected to top $12 trillion by 2053; over 40,000 homeless veterans throughout the country with many committing suicide while waiting for treatment, many from “regime change” wars in the Middle East; Trump’s pledge to “Make America great again” and not “Make Syria great again” or other nation-building efforts in the Middle East. So why is the Washington, DC establishment pushing for US mission creep in Syria? As Josh Rogin of the Washington Post revealed, it’s about taking the oil.

Take the oil

The current US occupation of Syria is in the northeast and covers 30% of the country’s territory and controls oil fields where about 90% of the pre-war oil production took place. However, according to some Syrian analysts, the amount of oil revenue is negligible and insufficient to even pay for local government. Nonetheless, Syria has a bigger prize located elsewhere – in the Golan Heights.

The current US occupation of Syria is in the northeast and covers 30% of the country’s territory and controls oil fields where about 90% of the pre-war oil production took place

As mentioned previously in an Asia Times article, in November 2015, Afek Oil and Gas, a subsidiary of the US company Genie Energy, discovered an oil bonanza in the Golan Heights “with the potential of billions of barrels.” Genie Energy, boasting an advisory board studded with former US cabinet officials, managed to obtain exploratory licenses despite opposition from environmental and local groups concerned that drilling could pollute the Golan countryside and the Sea of Galilee below, the source of most of Israel’s drinking water. However, the biggest problems revolve around the issue of sovereignty.

Israel annexed much of the Golan in 1981, but it is still regarded internationally as illegally occupied Syrian territory. Israel’s leaders had previously offered to pull back from the Golan, which was captured in 1967, in return for a comprehensive peace treaty with the Syrian government. However, since Syria began disintegrating in 2011, there are efforts to demand recognition of Israeli control of the 1,200 square kilometers it occupies in the Golan Heights.

Indeed, Israel has intensified its defense of the Golan. Last June, when a mortar shell landed in the Golan, the Israeli air force attacked Syrian army positions in the village of Samadanieh al Sharqiyah in Quneitra province. In February, after its F-16 crashed in Syria, Israeli airstrikes took out half of Syria’s air defense and fired ground-to-ground rockets from the Golan Heights. It also supports rebel groups as a buffer force to keep the Syrian army and Iran-backed Hezbollah at bay.

Partition Syria

By maintaining a US military presence in Syria and partitioning the country into spheres of influence similar to China in the 19th century, it would facilitate Israeli annexation of the Golan and allow US/Israeli energy companies to exploit the oil reserves.

In the case of Syria, the US would be in the northeast, Turkey in the northwest, Russia and Iran in the coastal area and large parts of the Syrian desert, Israel and Jordan in the southwest, according to a partition plan by RAND Corporation and first published by the German newspaper Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten.



It is interesting to note that in the US plan, the area of Manbij is in the Turkish sphere of influence. As such, it is unclear whether American troops would continue to support the Kurds there, as Erdogan’s army and jihadi shock troops continue to advance towards the area to occupy territory west of the Euphrates.

And despite Syrian government’s proclamations that it would reclaim all lost territory, from the current vantage point, it does not seem very likely. Like China, it may need to wait another century.


http://www.atimes.com/partition-syria-u ... ights-oil/

[canta_brian]

If Trump launches cruise missiles on Syria for any reason it will be a war crime borne of arrogance, racism, hypocrisy and malice.

Arrogance because nobody appointed the US world policeman, and surely the last nation they would wish to appoint is the one which has bombed scores of countries since WWII, killing millions and torturing untold more, while propping up brutal dictatorships all over the world. That would be akin to appointing Jack the Ripper head of your neighborhood watch group.

Racist because the US is a white Christian-dominated super power and Syria is a relatively small Arab Muslim-dominated country. The US has now bombed an entire swathe of Islamic nations, while completely overlooking war crimes against Muslim populations in Palestine, Myanmar and the Central African Republic, for instance.

Hypocrisy because the US itself has committed countless war crimes all around the world without ever once being held accountable. The 2003 invasion of Iraq is estimated to have led to 2.4 million deaths. The destruction of Libya was also based on lies, Wikileaks have revealed. But who's in the Hague? Who's going to launch a cruise missile at the US to 'punish' them?

& malice because the only objective a missile strike on Syria could have is to kill and maim. What kind of a solution is that? Do we now live in a world where nations take it upon themselves to bomb each other as 'punishment?' Might makes right? White makes right? America is taking us back to the age of barbarity.

This article offers an excellent insight into the situation in Syria:

President Donald Trump declared last week that the US will get out of Syria “soon,” on the heels of halting $200 million of taxpayer money to reconstruct the war-ravaged country. Naturally, this pair of announcements set off alarm bells within the US military, corporate media, and think-tank establishment, as well as among allies that want Washington to maintain its military occupation of Syria and the Middle East.

“We believe American troops should stay for at least the mid-term, if not the long-term,” said the Saudi Crown Prince, who wants to use US military power to counter Iran in their competition for regional hegemony. Israeli and European allies echo that sentiment.

However, Trump wants regional countries such as Saudi Arabia to play a greater role and pick up the bigger portion of the bill in Syria, and for Europeans to do more since displaced Syrians mainly wind up as refugees in Europe. Many Syrians are also fleeing jihad at home to neighboring Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, and Turkey. With Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE and other wealthy Arab Gulf states agitating for regime change and increased military escalation, one ponders how many refugees they have taken? According to director of Human Rights Watch Kenneth Roth, zero.

Even worse, Riyadh is creating thousands of refugees of its own by bombing Yemen, a campaign that has already killed more than 10,000 civilians and wounded 40,000 others, including 135 at a wedding party, mostly women and children.

There are actually various legitimate reasons for Trump to pull back from Syria: a $21 trillion national debt bomb; the riskiness of the US dollar as a fiat currency that solely relies on confidence in the government and is not backed by actual gold or silver; crumbling domestic infrastructure that needs a complete overhaul; $5 trillion of taxpayer money spent in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan alone that is projected to top $12 trillion by 2053; over 40,000 homeless veterans throughout the country with many committing suicide while waiting for treatment, many from “regime change” wars in the Middle East; Trump’s pledge to “Make America great again” and not “Make Syria great again” or other nation-building efforts in the Middle East. So why is the Washington, DC establishment pushing for US mission creep in Syria? As Josh Rogin of the Washington Post revealed, it’s about taking the oil.

Take the oil

The current US occupation of Syria is in the northeast and covers 30% of the country’s territory and controls oil fields where about 90% of the pre-war oil production took place. However, according to some Syrian analysts, the amount of oil revenue is negligible and insufficient to even pay for local government. Nonetheless, Syria has a bigger prize located elsewhere – in the Golan Heights.

The current US occupation of Syria is in the northeast and covers 30% of the country’s territory and controls oil fields where about 90% of the pre-war oil production took place

As mentioned previously in an Asia Times article, in November 2015, Afek Oil and Gas, a subsidiary of the US company Genie Energy, discovered an oil bonanza in the Golan Heights “with the potential of billions of barrels.” Genie Energy, boasting an advisory board studded with former US cabinet officials, managed to obtain exploratory licenses despite opposition from environmental and local groups concerned that drilling could pollute the Golan countryside and the Sea of Galilee below, the source of most of Israel’s drinking water. However, the biggest problems revolve around the issue of sovereignty.

Israel annexed much of the Golan in 1981, but it is still regarded internationally as illegally occupied Syrian territory. Israel’s leaders had previously offered to pull back from the Golan, which was captured in 1967, in return for a comprehensive peace treaty with the Syrian government. However, since Syria began disintegrating in 2011, there are efforts to demand recognition of Israeli control of the 1,200 square kilometers it occupies in the Golan Heights.

Indeed, Israel has intensified its defense of the Golan. Last June, when a mortar shell landed in the Golan, the Israeli air force attacked Syrian army positions in the village of Samadanieh al Sharqiyah in Quneitra province. In February, after its F-16 crashed in Syria, Israeli airstrikes took out half of Syria’s air defense and fired ground-to-ground rockets from the Golan Heights. It also supports rebel groups as a buffer force to keep the Syrian army and Iran-backed Hezbollah at bay.

Partition Syria

By maintaining a US military presence in Syria and partitioning the country into spheres of influence similar to China in the 19th century, it would facilitate Israeli annexation of the Golan and allow US/Israeli energy companies to exploit the oil reserves.

In the case of Syria, the US would be in the northeast, Turkey in the northwest, Russia and Iran in the coastal area and large parts of the Syrian desert, Israel and Jordan in the southwest, according to a partition plan by RAND Corporation and first published by the German newspaper Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten.



It is interesting to note that in the US plan, the area of Manbij is in the Turkish sphere of influence. As such, it is unclear whether American troops would continue to support the Kurds there, as Erdogan’s army and jihadi shock troops continue to advance towards the area to occupy territory west of the Euphrates.

And despite Syrian government’s proclamations that it would reclaim all lost territory, from the current vantage point, it does not seem very likely. Like China, it may need to wait another century.


http://www.atimes.com/partition-syria-u ... ights-oil/

Tldr.

Meanwhile at the UN http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-ve ... ?r=US&IR=T

For Tapatalk users https://tinyurl.com/y9lewhw6

[rowan]

Just a month ago Syrian government forces uncovered a chemical weapons plant in an area of Eastern Ghouta recently held by Saudi-backed terrorists. This was actually reported in the mainstream news but created little interest and appears to have been completely forgotten. The equipment was also Saudi-made, while other materials were of Western origin. Meanwhile, the governments of both Syria and Russia warned that the terrorists might use chemical weapons again as they were leaving in a last desperate attempt to draw America into the conflict on their side. That too created little interest. In fact, the area concerned this time was also held by Saudi-backed terrorists. & these ones are notorious for public executions and parading women as human shields. So why are we looking at images of (seemingly healthy) kids having water splashed over them? Where did they come from, unless they had also been human shields? The Syrian government has been giving the terrorists themselves free passage out of town. So why would there be children in the very spot they had been holed up in? It's a blatant false flag.

[rowan]

No evidence of a chemical weapons attack at all has been found - Galloway