More on Syria

[Digby]

God helped me I clicked on that link, but it looked far too long to actually read so I gave it a quick skim. The writing quality is never better than when the author confidently states 'I stand to be corrected on this, hence it is phrased as a question, but I my own search turned up nothing.'

[rowan]

Highlights from the abbreviated version:

Assad and his government have an army; that army is drawn from the Syrian people; and that body of Syrian men and women has remained loyal for seven hard years of fighting. So the very first question any would-be interventionist must ask is this: under what conceivable conditions could that body of loyal Syrian men and women be regarded as an aggressor against the Syrian people? I do not know what Monbiot supposes on this score as I am not aware of his ever having explained where the Syrian army stands in his framing of the situation in Syria. I have not been able to track down any mention by him of it.

My argument is that sufficient reason for opposing military intervention against “Assad” is that he is literally not an aggressor against the Syrian people, and nor could his government or ‘regime’ be. For the possibility of even arguing there is a just cause of intervention in Syria, it would have to be claimed that the Syrian Arab Army is an aggressor against the Syrian people. I cannot conceive how anyone could decently make such a claim.

The Syrian government and the people living under that government in Syria take the view that foreign military intervention in the Syrian Arab Republic would be illegitimate under any circumstances whatsoever. Syria has the rule of law under a constitution, and, imperfect as it may be, its imperfections are for Syrians to deal with. Both international law and human morality are on their side.

To suggest there is any justification for foreign powers to intervene for the purpose of ‘regime change’ in Syria is to mislead the public.

https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... rter-read/

[Stones of granite]

Interesting that terrorists and civilians alike are being evacuated from Eastern Ghouta on luxury coach-lines without any sign of fire or harassment from the government forces now fully in control.

Also interesting that the main source for the allegations against Assad are again coming from the White Helmets, a US-funded, British-trained Jihadist organization embedded with the terrorists (and whose claims have been disproved in the past, notably by the father of 'the boy in the ambulance).

Also interesting that while Russia has been roundly condemned for vetoing a US resolution which was effectively set to condemn Assad (presumably on the above hearsay), two resolutions presented by Russia itself were not passed by the council - one actually calling for an endorsement of the ongoing OPCW investigation to establish whether a chemical attack had even taken place. So what have the US and its cronies got to hide??

Also interesting is that our glorious leader has joined the call for the US to bomb Syria as punishment. Contrary to popular belief relations with the US have never been better, and that is obviously because our glorious leader is a paragon of democracy, liberty and peace.

Tim Hayward column: https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... -guardian/

Nope.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/sta ... -syria/en/
WHO is deeply alarmed by reports of the suspected use of toxic chemicals in Douma city, East Ghouta.

According to reports from Health Cluster partners, during the shelling of Douma on Saturday, an estimated 500 patients presented to health facilities exhibiting signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals. In particular, there were signs of severe irritation of mucous membranes, respiratory failure and disruption to central nervous systems of those exposed.

More than 70 people sheltering in basements have reportedly died, with 43 of those deaths related to symptoms consistent with exposure to highly toxic chemicals. Two health facilities were also reportedly affected by these attacks.

"We should all be outraged at these horrific reports and images from Douma,” said Dr. Peter Salama, WHO Deputy Director- General for Emergency Preparedness and Response. “WHO demands immediate unhindered access to the area to provide care to those affected, to assess the health impacts, and to deliver a comprehensive public health response.”

Let's see if the Syrian Government allow the WHO "immediate unhindered access" to Douma city.

[rowan]

Interesting that terrorists and civilians alike are being evacuated from Eastern Ghouta on luxury coach-lines without any sign of fire or harassment from the government forces now fully in control.

Also interesting that the main source for the allegations against Assad are again coming from the White Helmets, a US-funded, British-trained Jihadist organization embedded with the terrorists (and whose claims have been disproved in the past, notably by the father of 'the boy in the ambulance).

Also interesting that while Russia has been roundly condemned for vetoing a US resolution which was effectively set to condemn Assad (presumably on the above hearsay), two resolutions presented by Russia itself were not passed by the council - one actually calling for an endorsement of the ongoing OPCW investigation to establish whether a chemical attack had even taken place. So what have the US and its cronies got to hide??

Also interesting is that our glorious leader has joined the call for the US to bomb Syria as punishment. Contrary to popular belief relations with the US have never been better, and that is obviously because our glorious leader is a paragon of democracy, liberty and peace.

Tim Hayward column: https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... -guardian/

Nope.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/sta ... -syria/en/
WHO is deeply alarmed by reports of the suspected use of toxic chemicals in Douma city, East Ghouta.

According to reports from Health Cluster partners, during the shelling of Douma on Saturday, an estimated 500 patients presented to health facilities exhibiting signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals. In particular, there were signs of severe irritation of mucous membranes, respiratory failure and disruption to central nervous systems of those exposed.

More than 70 people sheltering in basements have reportedly died, with 43 of those deaths related to symptoms consistent with exposure to highly toxic chemicals. Two health facilities were also reportedly affected by these attacks.

"We should all be outraged at these horrific reports and images from Douma,” said Dr. Peter Salama, WHO Deputy Director- General for Emergency Preparedness and Response. “WHO demands immediate unhindered access to the area to provide care to those affected, to assess the health impacts, and to deliver a comprehensive public health response.”

Let's see if the Syrian Government allow the WHO "immediate unhindered access" to Douma city.

NOPE!

It says the allegations against Assad. Are you claiming therefore that WHO are directly blaming Assad? I don't see that in the reports. It also says the main source. There are actually two questions involved here. Firstly, was there a chemical weapons attack at all? WHO says yes but others say no. The Russians wanted this fact established before there was any apportioning of blame. That seems reasonable, surely. But the UN council failed to accept that resolution, then got upset when the Russians failed to accept one that appeared set to blame Assad before the facts had even been established.

Anyway, today Eastern Ghouta has finally been liberated from the terrorists. I assume you are as delighted about this development as I am. With the government back in control of another key area stability might finally be restored to Syria - notwithstanding the north where NATO forces are still on the offensive.

[Digby]

After the Russians again decided to block an independent assessment of Assad's use of chemical weapons it sounds like they've been on the phone with the Americans finding out what military units they might need to move out of harm's way

[Stones of granite]

It says the allegations against Assad. Are you claiming therefore that WHO are directly blaming Assad? I don't see that in the reports. It also says the main source. There are actually two questions involved here. Firstly, was there a chemical weapons attack at all? WHO says yes but others say no. The Russians wanted this fact established before there was any apportioning of blame. That seems reasonable, surely. But the UN council failed to accept that resolution, then got upset when the Russians failed to accept one that appeared set to blame Assad before the facts had even been established.

Anyway, today Eastern Ghouta has finally been liberated from the terrorists. I assume you are as delighted about this development as I am. With the government back in control of another key area stability might finally be restored to Syria - notwithstanding the north where NATO forces are still on the offensive.

No, the Russians want the whole thing covered up. It is not reasonable at all, in any way shape or form. The Russian resolution was not accepted because it included a clause giving them editorial control over the report. This is very strong evidence that they have something to hide.

I am glad that fighting has ceased in Eastern Ghouta, certainly, at least the civilian population should be safe from further CW attacks from their own government. Unless, of course, they have the temerity to protest against it again.

[Digby]

If you must quote it could you maybe take out most of the content in the quote box?

[Stones of granite]

If you must quote it could you maybe take out most of the content in the quote box?

Easier said than done.

[Digby]

If you must quote it could you maybe take out most of the content in the quote box?

Easier said than done.

You could just stick him on ignore and assume he's posting a long winded and tiresome conspiracy theory utterly lacking in sense, some with a copy and paste and others not.

In other news France/Macron announces they have proof Assad used chemical weapons on his own people.

[Stones of granite]

If you must quote it could you maybe take out most of the content in the quote box?

Easier said than done.

You could just stick him on ignore and assume he's posting a long winded and tiresome conspiracy theory utterly lacking in sense, some with a copy and paste and others not.

In other news France/Macron announces they have proof Assad used chemical weapons on his own people.

What, and miss out on all the latest news from the 3rd division of the Upper Volta transgender 7s league?

[Digby]

Easier said than done.

You could just stick him on ignore and assume he's posting a long winded and tiresome conspiracy theory utterly lacking in sense, some with a copy and paste and others not.

In other news France/Macron announces they have proof Assad used chemical weapons on his own people.

What, and miss out on all the latest news from the 3rd division of the Upper Volta transgender 7s league?

Dear god, every fool knows the real action is in The Gambia

[Stones of granite]

You could just stick him on ignore and assume he's posting a long winded and tiresome conspiracy theory utterly lacking in sense, some with a copy and paste and others not.

In other news France/Macron announces they have proof Assad used chemical weapons on his own people.

What, and miss out on all the latest news from the 3rd division of the Upper Volta transgender 7s league?

Dear god, every fool knows the real action is in The Gambia

The Gambia is an artificial construct owing its originals to the Imperialist British and their genocidal approach to murdering baby rugby players. To even mention the Gamia makes it obvious that you are apologist for Winston Churchill, Cromwell and the British Imperialist exploitation of the West African slave trade.
So there.

[Digby]

What, and miss out on all the latest news from the 3rd division of the Upper Volta transgender 7s league?

Dear god, every fool knows the real action is in The Gambia

The Gambia is an artificial construct owing its originals to the Imperialist British and their genocidal approach to murdering baby rugby players. To even mention the Gamia makes it obvious that you are apologist for Winston Churchill, Cromwell and the British Imperialist exploitation of the West African slave trade.
So there.

Which Cromwell?

[Stones of granite]

Dear god, every fool knows the real action is in The Gambia

The Gambia is an artificial construct owing its originals to the Imperialist British and their genocidal approach to murdering baby rugby players. To even mention the Gamia makes it obvious that you are apologist for Winston Churchill, Cromwell and the British Imperialist exploitation of the West African slave trade.
So there.

Which Cromwell?

Dang. You found me out.

LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!!

[Mellsblue]

It does rather sound like May wants to get involved in whatever France and the USA sign up to, and as Parliament isn't trusted they're simply going to state no boots on the ground means it's not a military involvement we need a parliamentary vote on. May may be right or not, but the sovereignty of Parliament is at best wobbly

There is no requirement for the executive to go to parliament before taking military action, and there never has been. It was Cameron who put the current system in motion, but it is nothing more than a courtesy that May can decide not at adhere to at any point.

[Digby]

It does rather sound like May wants to get involved in whatever France and the USA sign up to, and as Parliament isn't trusted they're simply going to state no boots on the ground means it's not a military involvement we need a parliamentary vote on. May may be right or not, but the sovereignty of Parliament is at best wobbly

There is no requirement for the executive to go to parliament before taking military action, and there never has been. It was Cameron who put the current system in motion, but it is nothing more than a courtesy that May can decide not at adhere to at any point.

I know, but there's a political cost to these actions, and Cameron had a stronger position than May. I was though interested to see Corbyn demanding a vote on an issue where there's no need, and wondered if he'd care to pledge votes on all issues where there's no need should the voters take another step into an insane future and elect him?

[Digby]

The Gambia is an artificial construct owing its originals to the Imperialist British and their genocidal approach to murdering baby rugby players. To even mention the Gamia makes it obvious that you are apologist for Winston Churchill, Cromwell and the British Imperialist exploitation of the West African slave trade.
So there.

Which Cromwell?

Dang. You found me out.

LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!!

I hate squirrels

[Stones of granite]

Which Cromwell?

Dang. You found me out.

LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!!

I hate squirrels

Racist.

[Digby]

Racist.

I never used to think I was, but then after the Joe Marler incident and finding out gypsies are a race it turns out that's fair comment.

[rowan]

Trump, May, Erdogan, Netanyahu, the House of Saud - that's quite a lineup calling for action against the Syrian government just as it closes in on victory over the terrorists. Oh, and let's not forget Macron, who claims he has ze evidence against the Syrian government but fails to actually produce it. What a headline that made in the mainstream corporate propaganda of the West! In fact, the US, NATO, EU alliance and the custom-made vassal petro-state of Kuwait make up almost half of the UN permanent council members (7/15) which voted down Russia's resolution for an inquiry into whether a chemical attack had actually taken place, but voted for the one effectively condemning Assad - which Russia ultimately vetoed (China abstaining, significantly). The Latin phrase Cui bono? remains a standard question in modern law and investigating, and the answer here is clearly not the Syrian army as it finally drives the terrorists out of their last remaining stronghold. Actually, it is giving them free passage out on luxury coach-lines, and has been for some time . . .

[Digby]

Free passage on luxury coaches to a town which will shortly come under attack from Syrian ground forces and Russian airstrikes

[rowan]

Well Trump appears to be backing off a little now - mashallah! - claiming he never said he was going to bomb Syria immediately and might have meant later, or never, but he hasn't decided yet. Not even George Orwell could have predicted WWIII might begin with a tweet

[Stones of granite]

Trump, May, Erdogan, Netanyahu, the House of Saud - that's quite a lineup calling for action against the Syrian government just as it closes in on victory over the terrorists. Oh, and let's not forget Macron, who claims he has ze evidence against the Syrian government but fails to actually produce it. What a headline that made in the mainstream corporate propaganda of the West! In fact, the US, NATO, EU alliance and the custom-made vassal petro-state of Kuwait make up almost half of the UN permanent council members (7/15) which voted down Russia's resolution for an inquiry into whether a chemical attack had actually taken place, but voted for the one effectively condemning Assad - which Russia ultimately vetoed (China abstaining, significantly). The Latin phrase Cui bono? remains a standard question in modern law and investigating, and the answer here is clearly not the Syrian army as it finally drives the terrorists out of their last remaining stronghold. Actually, it is giving them free passage out on luxury coach-lines, and has been for some time . . .

Cui bono? Is there a caveat with that?

[Digby]

Cui bono? Is there a caveat with that?

A caveat? Is this a joke known only to the cool kids, or do I need to add cui bono to the list of things I don't understand

[rowan]

A caveat is fish eggs. Any fool knows that...