More on Syria

[Digby]

About the best we could offer in response would be Leicester, and in the right light even Leicester doesn't look that bad

[rowan]

Try Northern Ireland. & that's just in recent history.

None of which is remotely comparable to the carnage America has created in the Middle East over the past quarter of a century, let alone around the planet since WWII, invariably with Britain's help. & if you want to focus on internal crimes against humanity (not sure how that's any worse than crimes against people of others races, religions and nationalities), let's not forget that America continues to slaughter Native and African-Americans in their droves through racist policing, mass incarceration, poverty and oppression.

[cashead]

А у вас негров линчуют

[cashead]

So, how's that LGBT thing going in Russia?

А у вас гомосексуалисты линчуют

[rowan]

Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.
Carla del Ponte, a member of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad had used the nerve agent.
But she said her panel had not yet seen any evidence of Syrian government forces using chemical weapons, according to the BBC, but she added that more investigation was needed.
Damascus has recently facing growing Western accusations that its forces used such weapons, which President Obama has described as crossing a red line. But Ms. del Ponte’s remarks may serve to shift the focus of international concern.
Ms. del Ponte, who in 1999 was appointed to head the U.N. war crimes tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda, has sometimes been a controversial figure. She was removed from her Rwanda post by the U.N. Security Council in 2003, but she continued as the chief prosecutor for the Yugoslav tribunal until 2008.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... sads-regi/

[Digby]

2) Why are there not dead people from the chemicals thus dispersed for a thousand miles ( including in Israel)?[/i]

Is this a question seriously being asked as a consequence of the West's military strikes on Syria? Anyone asking that question really needs to attend some remedial science classes

[rowan]

2) Why are there not dead people from the chemicals thus dispersed for a thousand miles ( including in Israel)?[/i]

Is this a question seriously being asked as a consequence of the West's military strikes on Syria? Anyone asking that question really needs to attend some remedial science classes

Isn't he implying that if the self-appointed world cops had bombed chemical weapons factories it should have ignited those notoriously volatile chemicals, thereby causing a massive human catastrophe? There is a theory that the chemical weapons attacks blamed on the Syrian army were in fact a result of their own strikes on terrorist chemical weapons plants they were unaware of.

[rowan]

Seems like we may have witnessed the storm before the calm. Things already appear to be getting back to normal. Today's local press is full of stories about Syrian refugees (both here and in Greece) wanting to return home, while diaspora communities, even in the US, have joined the call for America to butt out and give peace a chance. The Syrian army is certainly in control of the entire country now, apart from the Kurdish north, where NATO forces remain entrenched. That's the only major question remaining. Will they also pulled out? Of course, we still await the findings of US inspection teams in Eastern Ghouta, but these will be ignored by whoever is ultimately blamed, as per usual.

[Digby]

2) Why are there not dead people from the chemicals thus dispersed for a thousand miles ( including in Israel)?[/i]

Is this a question seriously being asked as a consequence of the West's military strikes on Syria? Anyone asking that question really needs to attend some remedial science classes

Isn't he implying that if the self-appointed world cops had bombed chemical weapons factories it should have ignited those notoriously volatile chemicals, thereby causing a massive human catastrophe? There is a theory that the chemical weapons attacks blamed on the Syrian army were in fact a result of their own strikes on terrorist chemical weapons plants they were unaware of.

He does indeed seem to be implying that, and that alongside the notion the attacks blamed on the Syrian army are the result of strikes on some of Syria's own chemical weapons plants is an inference and/or theory put forward out of profound ignorance.

[rowan]

So you're obviously the resident chemical weapons expert then. Enlighten us . . .

I would imagine that if the Americans had blown up facilities for creating chemical weapons that might have created a fair bit of havoc, but I'm no expert on the matter and don't claim to be. I do know that there is considerable evidence to suggest the terrorists had their own facilities and had used chemical weapons in the past, so it doesn't seem an unreasonable theory either that if the Syrians or Russians were responsible for any of these amazingly ill-timed attacks it was by dint of striking terrorist facilities they were unaware of.

[Digby]

Well firstly if you want or expect to see dispersed chemical weapons you don't have them burned in an explosion at super heated temperatures, that destroys the substance rather than disperses it, secondly chemical weapons when armed are horrible substances to have around the place so nobody with a brain does, instead they store rather more inert substances that need to be mixed (or armed) before being put into use. I don't discount there are some idiots without a brain storing weapons ready chemical bombs, but even then you're back to a conflagration is not a mode of dispersal

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Try Northern Ireland. & that's just in recent history.

Er, try getting away til fuck!

The recent history of which you insinuate is actually 20 years in our not so recent history (This year is the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement) and we never looked as bad as Leicester even at the height of the bombing. The recent (2014) movie '71 had to go to Sheffield to find a location that looked as bad as Belfast's Divis in the 70s.

And we've made it on to the DeLoitte Crane Survey! http://www.irishnews.com/business/2018/ ... t-1244633/

Of course that could just be a sign of all the RHI ovens being lifted in and out.

[BBD]

Im going to Burnley tomorrow and Bootle the day after

Im not going to survey them for comparison with Leicester re shiteholes


Im just looking for some sympathy

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Im going to Burnley tomorrow and Bootle the day after

Im not going to survey them for comparison with Leicester re shiteholes


Im just looking for some sympathy

If you're looking for Sympathy you'll find it in the atlas between South Sudan and Syria!

[Zhivago]

So, how's that LGBT thing going in Russia?

А у вас гомосексуалисты линчуют

Гомосексуалисты нельзя в США быть донорами крови. Вообще.

Ты дурак.

[rowan]

Stephen Kinzer:


According to the logic behind American strategy in the Middle East — and the rest of the world — one of our principal goals should be to prevent peace or prosperity from breaking out in countries whose governments are unfriendly to us. That outcome in Syria would have results we consider intolerable.

First, it would signal final victory for the Assad government, which we deluded ourselves into thinking we could crush.

Second, it would allow Russia, which has been Assad’s ally, to maintain its influence in Syria.

Most frighteningly, it might allow stability to spread to nearby countries. Today, for the first time in modern history, the governments of Syria, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon are on good terms. A partnership among them could lay the foundation for a new Middle East.

That new Middle East, however, would not be submissive to the United States-Israel-Saudi Arabia coalition. For that reason, we are determined to prevent it from emerging. Better to keep these countries in misery and conflict, some reason, than to allow them to thrive while they defy the United States. ...

[The US] role is now crucial because our sway over mostly-defeated rebel groups allows us to push them toward either war or peace.

From Washington’s perspective, peace in Syria is the horror scenario. Peace would mean what the United States sees as a “win” for our enemies: Russia, Iran, and the Assad government. We are determined to prevent that, regardless of the human cost.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201 ... l#comments

[morepork]

It's the cut and paste 'Lympics.

[Mellsblue]

It’s more sports day at the local special needs school than the Olympics.

[cashead]

So, how's that LGBT thing going in Russia?

А у вас гомосексуалисты линчуют

Гомосексуалисты нельзя в США быть донорами крови. Вообще.

Ты дурак.

If you're honestly trying to present the treatment of the LGBT community in Russia to "not being allowed to donate blood" as some sort of equivalent scenario, you're either arguing in horrendously bad faith, or you're the stupidest motherfucker on the planet.

[Zhivago]

So, how's that LGBT thing going in Russia?

А у вас гомосексуалисты линчуют

Гомосексуалисты нельзя в США быть донорами крови. Вообще.

Ты дурак.

If you're honestly trying to present the treatment of the LGBT community in Russia to "not being allowed to donate blood" as some sort of equivalent scenario, you're either arguing in horrendously bad faith, or you're the stupidest motherfucker on the planet.

I thought you were being satirical, so I played along with the game of satire.

[rowan]

& Fisk, author of the seminal history of the modern Middle East The Great War for Civilisation and countless other books, hasn't exactly been Assad's biggest cheerleader during this conflict either, despite condemning the foreign and terrorist elements involved in it:

This seems pretty significant. Veteran and highly respected Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk visited the hospital where the victims of last week's Douma "chemical weapons" attack were filmed – the attack that was used as a justification for the air strikes by the US, UK and France on Syria.

Fisk says the senior doctor there told him the victims had *not* been gassed. They were suffering from inhalation of dust and debris after a bombing attack. They were doused down when someone created alarm by shouting out "Gas!".

This is a short preview clip of the interview on Irish radio station Spirit. The full interview is due to be broadcast tomorrow. Presumably, Fisk will be writing more on this soon for the Independent newspaper.

http://podcasts.spiritradio.ie/robert-f ... uma-syria/

[Stones of granite]

& Fisk, author of the seminal history of the modern Middle East The Great War for Civilisation and countless other books, hasn't exactly been Assad's biggest cheerleader during this conflict either, despite condemning the foreign and terrorist elements involved in it:

This seems pretty significant. Veteran and highly respected Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk visited the hospital where the victims of last week's Douma "chemical weapons" attack were filmed – the attack that was used as a justification for the air strikes by the US, UK and France on Syria.

Fisk says the senior doctor there told him the victims had *not* been gassed. They were suffering from inhalation of dust and debris after a bombing attack. They were doused down when someone created alarm by shouting out "Gas!".

This is a short preview clip of the interview on Irish radio station Spirit. The full interview is due to be broadcast tomorrow. Presumably, Fisk will be writing more on this soon for the Independent newspaper.

http://podcasts.spiritradio.ie/robert-f ... uma-syria/

Does he mention meeting the British Special Forces Amateur Dramtics Corps who were there to fabricate a CW attack?

[rowan]

& Fisk, author of the seminal history of the modern Middle East The Great War for Civilisation and countless other books, hasn't exactly been Assad's biggest cheerleader during this conflict either, despite condemning the foreign and terrorist elements involved in it:

This seems pretty significant. Veteran and highly respected Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk visited the hospital where the victims of last week's Douma "chemical weapons" attack were filmed – the attack that was used as a justification for the air strikes by the US, UK and France on Syria.

Fisk says the senior doctor there told him the victims had *not* been gassed. They were suffering from inhalation of dust and debris after a bombing attack. They were doused down when someone created alarm by shouting out "Gas!".

This is a short preview clip of the interview on Irish radio station Spirit. The full interview is due to be broadcast tomorrow. Presumably, Fisk will be writing more on this soon for the Independent newspaper.

http://podcasts.spiritradio.ie/robert-f ... uma-syria/

Does he mention meeting the British Special Forces Amateur Dramtics Corps who were there to fabricate a CW attack?

Full report hasn't been released yet. But let's remember the permanent members of the UN security council (with NATO & EU members plus Kuwait amounting to almost half) voted down Russia's resolution to establish whether there had even been a chemical weapons attack. Now one of the foremost authorities on the region in the English language is casting serious doubt on the fact. Oops!

[canta_brian]

& Fisk, author of the seminal history of the modern Middle East The Great War for Civilisation and countless other books, hasn't exactly been Assad's biggest cheerleader during this conflict either, despite condemning the foreign and terrorist elements involved in it:

This seems pretty significant. Veteran and highly respected Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk visited the hospital where the victims of last week's Douma "chemical weapons" attack were filmed – the attack that was used as a justification for the air strikes by the US, UK and France on Syria.

Fisk says the senior doctor there told him the victims had *not* been gassed. They were suffering from inhalation of dust and debris after a bombing attack. They were doused down when someone created alarm by shouting out "Gas!".

This is a short preview clip of the interview on Irish radio station Spirit. The full interview is due to be broadcast tomorrow. Presumably, Fisk will be writing more on this soon for the Independent newspaper.

http://podcasts.spiritradio.ie/robert-f ... uma-syria/

Does he mention meeting the British Special Forces Amateur Dramtics Corps who were there to fabricate a CW attack?

Full report hasn't been released yet. But let's remember the permanent members of the UN security council (with NATO & EU members plus Kuwait amounting to almost half) voted down Russia's resolution to establish whether there had even been a chemical weapons attack. Now one of the foremost authorities on the region in the English language is casting serious doubt on the fact. Oops!

Russian resolution was voted down because they demanded editorial control.

Current investigation unable to enter Douma because the Assad regime and Russian forces are stopping them.

[rowan]

& Fisk, author of the seminal history of the modern Middle East The Great War for Civilisation and countless other books, hasn't exactly been Assad's biggest cheerleader during this conflict either, despite condemning the foreign and terrorist elements involved in it:

This seems pretty significant. Veteran and highly respected Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk visited the hospital where the victims of last week's Douma "chemical weapons" attack were filmed – the attack that was used as a justification for the air strikes by the US, UK and France on Syria.

Fisk says the senior doctor there told him the victims had *not* been gassed. They were suffering from inhalation of dust and debris after a bombing attack. They were doused down when someone created alarm by shouting out "Gas!".

This is a short preview clip of the interview on Irish radio station Spirit. The full interview is due to be broadcast tomorrow. Presumably, Fisk will be writing more on this soon for the Independent newspaper.

http://podcasts.spiritradio.ie/robert-f ... uma-syria/

Does he mention meeting the British Special Forces Amateur Dramtics Corps who were there to fabricate a CW attack?

Full report hasn't been released yet. But let's remember the permanent members of the UN security council (with NATO & EU members plus Kuwait amounting to almost half) voted down Russia's resolution to establish whether there had even been a chemical weapons attack. Now one of the foremost authorities on the region in the English language is casting serious doubt on the fact. Oops!

Russian resolution was voted down because they demanded editorial control.

Current investigation unable to enter Douma because the Assad regime and Russian forces are stopping them.

No, I believe they're underway already. They were delayed by the US-led strikes on the facilities they are apparently on their way to investigate, so I'm not sure what they'll find among the rubble.