Rugby a Posh Boys' Game?

[rowan]

Historically this was certainly the case in Britain, Australia and, of course, Apartheid South Africa. It was also the case in New Zealand 's metropolitan centers prior to professionalism, an image regrettably compounded by ongoing ties with South Africa. As a kid I recall the way my own Polynesian friends shied away from the game at the time, opting instead for league - perceived more as a 'working class game' and probably dominated by Maori and Pacific Islanders. In fact, the All Blacks of the amateur era were often just about the all whites on many occasion, with just one or two part-Maori players among them. It took an end to sporting ties with Apartheid South Africa, and the advent of a highly glamorous and successful World Cup - followed soon after by professionalism and Super Rugby - to turn all that around. Anyway, here's an Australian view on the game's image there:

Are elite private schools and clubs in Australia at the centre of rugby’s problem?

I am certainly not one to mention class and sport in the same sentence lightly. Nor do I claim to be some kind of working class martyr, excluded from rugby because of the school I went to or the politics of my parents. I was lucky.

Yet there was something about this article, ‘Privately-educated-upper-middle-class man unable to identify problem with Australian Rugby Union‘, that resonated with me.

The irony of the opening gambit of the article was all too obvious and sadly for rugby supporters in Australia, it didn’t miss. “The game needs to be more approachable” he said, from the helm of his 34ft ketch. “That responsibility lies with the boarding schools.”

Now let’s get one thing straight at the beginning. The Betoota Advocate is a well-known satirical publication, brilliantly written but not always grounded in fact.

However, it is clear that rugby in Australia has an image problem and that is not everyone else’s fault or a figment of the Betoota Advocate’s imagination. Where there is smoke there is fire and in this case the culture of rugby in Australia is perceived, rightly I would say, as a closed shop bastion of upper-middle class privilege.

There is a lack of appreciation of grass roots rugby outside of Sydney and Brisbane. Why should parents in developing markets and regional Australia volunteer and raise money to support the game and ensure their child’s participation when the game gives nothing back to them. And I’m not talking about parents sending their kids to Joeys or Nudgee either.

I’m talking about mums and dads who work an extra eight-hour shift to pay for boots or kids who cop it most days at school for playing rugby in an AFL state or rugby league dominant region.

Continues here: http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/04/11/ru ... cted-posh/

[rowan]

Not sure what they've done to encourage more participation from the working classes, but the whole idea of basing Super Rugby franchises in Perth and Melbourne was to spread the gospel. In the case of Western Australia there is actually a fairly extensive and well-established club and schoolboys scene there, probably on a par with most New Zealand second division provinces, but due no doubt to their isolation the standard of the state team has always been very low. Victoria just seems to be a saturated market, and the substantial Mediterranean and Balkans communities in that state are not likely to ever take much of an interest in rugby.

[rowan]

It's a shame that we don't appear to have a resident Aussie to provide some insight . . .

[rowan]

Union had a very low profile even in Sydney when I lived there in the late 80s. People were forever telling me it would never get off the ground until it went pro. & that was the year of the inaugural World Cup, which was scarcely covered by the media at all until the quarter-finals stages. I wonder how much it has changed since it went pro then, with Super Rugby successes for three of its teams and nationwide expansion, and meanwhile Australia won two World Cups and hosted the 2003 event. I'm sure it must have a much bigger profile there now than it did in 87.

[rowan]

A posh boys' sport? Egads!

[rowan]

One of the most famous black players in the Premiership says rugby union isn't doing enough to get ethnic minority children from state schools into the game.
England and Wasps wing Christian Wade says the sport still suffers from a "white, public school" image.
He believes that big clubs are ignoring a large pool of untapped talent.
The 27-year-old told Newsbeat he wants to set up a foundation to give state school players more opportunities.
"I think there is probably a lot more that can be done to integrate everyone and make it more diverse," Christian said.
"There is a lot of talent out there in normal secondary schools that can be transferred across."

Story continues here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-45359123

[Sandydragon]

A posh boys sport in Britain? You haven’t spent much time in he West Country and Wales then.

[Puja]

A posh boys sport in Britain? You haven’t spent much time in he West Country and Wales then.

The West Country is the very epitome of rugby being a posh boys sport. Yes, there are poor people and chavs down here, but only because we need servants, binmen, and other such people to feel superior to.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

I don’t recall too many posh farmers when I played in Devon. Of course there were a few rah rah sorts who everyone else loved to hate.

[Puja]

I don’t recall too many posh farmers when I played in Devon. Of course there were a few rah rah sorts who everyone else loved to hate.

I live near Bath.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

So not the proper West Country then!

[morepork]

Sir Clive Puja weighs in.

[Puja]

Sir Clive Puja weighs in.

You could go off some people, you know.

Wade's got a point regarding the dominance of public schools in producing rugby players, but it's one I don't know how we'd fix. State schools will rarely do more than dabble with rugby for 1 term a year, unless they make it their primary sport (which is unlikely when football is more popular with the kids, easier to teach, cheaper to run and organise, and easier to find coaches and refs for). And even if they do, they'll find it hard to find suitable opposition at a similar level because the private schools have hoovered up all the talent and have money to burn on facilities and coaching.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

It’s not just rugby be fair. My wife has taught in private and comprehensive schools. The difference in resource across the board is huge, and those children with sports potential are well nurtured.

Comprehensive schools seem to depend on the passion of the PE teachers. If there is a rugby fanatic it will shine through, otherwise rugby will get the same attention as softball and cross country in a medley of trying all sports in an effort to make kids less fat. And that will only happen if there is a sports field for them to play on.

In the rugby heartlands there will be enough teachers and parents to encourage children to participate. The rest of the country will default to soccer.

[morepork]

Do young people in the UK get their rugby community fix from school or club comp, predominantly?

[Puja]

Do young people in the UK get their rugby community fix from school or club comp, predominantly?

It depends. Where I grew up, it was a football dominated area and so if you wanted rugby, you'd have to go out and hunt for a club with a colts system (of which there were precious few in that area).

My (state) secondary school ran rugby in the first half of the autumn term - September and October. You only played longer if you were in the school 1st or 2nd XVs, which were for 16-18 year olds. So school rugby was limited. If I had gone to a fees-paying school, or I was in a rugby-dominant area of the country, then there would've been a lot more.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

I grew up in South Wales. We had 2 rugby fanatical PEbteachers and there was a schools league of sorts in the area. The better players were then encouraged to take part in various youth teams.

This was a while ago but my understanding is that there is still a fair amount of rugby in the schools locally.

The main problem is finding qualified and interested staff to manage it, not to mention issues like insurance and parent acceptance.

[Mellsblue]

It ain’t full of posh boys in the north Nottinghamshire or South Yorkshire. I soon learnt to tone down my southern, public school accent if I played a team from either of those regions.
As Puja says, school or club rugby for juniors is dependant on where you grow up. I was brought up in Northampton and Bedford, two areas you’d think would see rugby in the schools, but football was very dominant in the state school system*. I now live in North Yorks and all state schools play rugby.

*I say this as an independent school boy so looking in from the outside and talking to my non-school mates, ie the children of our domestic servants**

** I jest

[Stom]

I went to a "state" Catholic school and while I was there the school was transitioning from rugby dominated to football dominated. It wasn't a normal state school, it was a bit posher but by the time I left football was definitely dominant and rugby was only played in autumn, really.

But growing up 10 minutes walk from Twickenham stadium and the Stoop kind of put rugby in my mind, so I played club rugby until everyone else grew and I didn't.

[zer0]

Playing at posh schools in Auckland was always pretty lame. Sure, St Kunts and their cathedral to sport or Auckland Glamour and their half dozen rugby fields might look nice, but their supporters are uniformly terrible. But Auckland's wannabe-Eaton, Kings, were/are the worst by far. Never played at any of them, but I also imagine that the Shore schools would also fit into the 'pretty schools but terrible fans' category.

It was always much more fun playing at places like MAGS with their 10 million dollar gym but $10 school, being ankle deep in mud at Liston or out in the frigid wasteland of that park across the road from Otahuhu College. Plus they're always open to a bit of biff out west or, in particular, down south. I guess having half your team related to half their team probably helped with both the camaraderie and biff.

[morepork]

Playing at posh schools in Auckland was always pretty lame. Sure, St Kunts and their cathedral to sport or Auckland Glamour and their half dozen rugby fields might look nice, but their supporters are uniformly terrible. But Auckland's wannabe-Eaton, Kings, were/are the worst by far. Never played at any of them, but I also imagine that the Shore schools would also fit into the 'pretty schools but terrible fans' category.

It was always much more fun playing at places like MAGS with their 10 million dollar gym but $10 school, being ankle deep in mud at Liston or out in the frigid wasteland of that park across the road from Otahuhu College. Plus they're always open to a bit of biff out west or, in particular, down south. I guess having half your team related to half their team probably helped with both the camaraderie and biff.

You mean Kings?

[morepork]

Dude, try the regions. My U14s got absolutely pumped by Paroa Combined, a team made up of schools so small, that they had to be combined into one team - and they still couldn't field a full 15.

My boys walked into a classic ambush, where a girl playing in their front-row beat the shit out of them. She bounced off 4 boys on the way to one try, dragged another 4 trying to stop her over the tryline to her second (they she didn't slow down one iota. Later in the game, it took 5 forwards to just barely slow her down). She scored her third by bashing through the backline.

Very polite and friendly off the pitch though.

Hope your young charges are up for the Warriors game brother.

[Lizard]

Fuck. So instead of the Japanese masters side we thought we were playing today, they sent their development team which is made up of Japanese exchange students here to learn rugby. They didn’t have much up front but jeez you slip one tackle and they were too fast for us old buggers. It was a classic pick-and-go v fling it wide Battle. Fling it wide won 7 tries to 5. Good lads though.

[rowan]

Interesting article on this topic: https://www.collegesportmedia.co.nz/rug ... chool-game

[Saison]

Interesting article on this topic: https://www.collegesportmedia.co.nz/rug ... chool-game

My kids have just started at private school in the UK and it certainly seems like the same story there to what is described in this article. Also the premiership teams seem to have very strong ties to the schools - the academies come along to school games/training and invite a lot of lads to train with them. A quick spot check would suggest a disproportionate number of players from private vs state schools.....a friend was predicting that in 5/6 years most of the home nation teams would be mostly private school kids which if true would be a real separture from the predictions when the game went pro...