Trump

[Digby]

Honest Mitch McConell has observed there are problems with rising federal debt, and to address these they need to look at cutting entitlement programmes, which is to say the big social and health care packages, providing they can hive some of the blame onto the Democrats

I don't know if he recalls the unfunded tax cut for rich people he and his boss trumped, but that does look unwarranted and hugely hypocritical when suddenly again claiming to be a deficit hawk

[Stom]

It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

[Puja]

It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Again, I ask how? We suck at regulating the media we currently have - any attempt to get them to stop actively lying is shot down with "Crushing the freedom of the press!" wailing and the ineptitude of Ipsos shows how much good self-regulation does.

Puja

[morepork]

Honest Mitch McConell has observed there are problems with rising federal debt, and to address these they need to look at cutting entitlement programmes, which is to say the big social and health care packages, providing they can hive some of the blame onto the Democrats

I don't know if he recalls the unfunded tax cut for rich people he and his boss trumped, but that does look unwarranted and hugely hypocritical when suddenly again claiming to be a deficit hawk

Wankers like him have been spouting the same shit for over three decades. Cutting taxes for the top 1% stimulates the economy, but just in case it doesn't, its because of poor people and social welfare.

Meanwhile, the terror of immigration is getting shouted at the public from all possible angles. Never, ever watch terrestrial or cable TV over here. Some of the political advertising is off the charts. Picture a mock up of a woman alone in a house that has been denied access to a firearm and an undocumented immigrant breaks in....you get the picture. Its fucking disgusting.

[Sandydragon]

It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

[Zhivago]

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

[canta_brian]

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

[Sandydragon]

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

[Sandydragon]

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

. If it targets UK customers then it’s doing business in genUK. But without UK assets a British Court will struggle to enforce a judgement.

[Zhivago]

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

[Stom]

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

. If it targets UK customers then it’s doing business in genUK. But without UK assets a British Court will struggle to enforce a judgement.

If they can manage it for online gambling, they can manage it for FB.

[Digby]

Trump isn't wrong that Russia flouts its nuclear treaty obligations, but Russia can reasonably cite so too does the USA, and on a much bigger scale

Maybe how Trump acts is how some people view the freedom of an event like brexit, but if the whole world plays the game in such fashion then heaven help us

[Puja]

Trump isn't wrong that Russia flouts its nuclear treaty obligations, but Russia can reasonably cite so too does the USA, and on a much bigger scale

Maybe how Trump acts is how some people view the freedom of an event like brexit, but if the whole world plays the game in such fashion then heaven help us

As does the UK. Two nations who have not (provably) broken any nuclear treaties that they've signed? Iran and North Korea.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

[morepork]

Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

"A Catholic priest and exorcist in California, Father Gary Thomas, planned to counter the spell by saying prayers for the justice at Mass."

An exorcist. Right.

[Sandydragon]

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

[Sandydragon]

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

. If it targets UK customers then it’s doing business in genUK. But without UK assets a British Court will struggle to enforce a judgement.

If they can manage it for online gambling, they can manage it for FB.

True, but bear in mind that there is greater public sympathy for managing online gambling. No one will object to an online gambling site being prosecuted for offering gambling activities to under 18s, although if they are located in a foreign country, the enforcement is still a major problem.

[Puja]

Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

{sigh} Why is it that the loonies always get into the press? For reference, this is not what paganism is about and, frankly is against the major tenet of it (which effectively boils down to "Don't be a dick"). This lot are clearly as mad as a sack of hammers and do not represent me.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

{sigh} Why is it that the loonies always get into the press? For reference, this is not what paganism is about and, frankly is against the major tenet of it (which effectively boils down to "Don't be a dick"). This lot are clearly as mad as a sack of hammers and do not represent me.

Puja

Because normal people aren’t newsworthy!

[Zhivago]

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

If they won't obey the law, block the website.

[Sandydragon]

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

If they won't obey the law, block the website.

So, the U.K. passes a law which demands that Facebook et al are treated as proper media outlets. Facebook allows posts which contain fake news and are prosecuted. They stick 2 fingers up and are blocked (assuming that would be effective).

Is there a freedom of speech issue here possibly?

I’m not ideologically opposed to what you’re suggesting, these sites should be accountable and there should be some regulation. But that legislation needs a graduated approach to be effective and that won’t happen with a unilateral approach.

[Digby]

So if in future I comment on exit polling during election day would I face prosecution or the website/publisher

There are also reasonable concerns about public interest and/or whistleblowing activities if access and or content becomes more regulated

[Stom]

I'm honestly thinking more along the lines of taxation. Hit them where it hurts. They get away with paying no tax because they're a "tech" company and the platform is not based in the UK, its in a tax haven like Ireland or Luxembourg. So introduce point if consumption. Every ad seen by a UK based server is taxed. Bingo.

I'd do the same to all those American companies. And the UK has been one of the only countries with the ability to do that. After brexit that may not be the case...

[Digby]

I'm honestly thinking more along the lines of taxation. Hit them where it hurts. They get away with paying no tax because they're a "tech" company and the platform is not based in the UK, its in a tax haven like Ireland or Luxembourg. So introduce point if consumption. Every ad seen by a UK based server is taxed. Bingo.

I'd do the same to all those American companies. And the UK has been one of the only countries with the ability to do that. After brexit that may not be the case...

That would take a global deal or a willingness to block certain sites. Also we likely have a problem with how transient companies are perhaps going to be with new technology coming online

We might get an agreed tax position for Facebook and Twitter just in time to see them vanish into nothing. Even the internet could be gone inside the next few decades

[Stom]

I'm honestly thinking more along the lines of taxation. Hit them where it hurts. They get away with paying no tax because they're a "tech" company and the platform is not based in the UK, its in a tax haven like Ireland or Luxembourg. So introduce point if consumption. Every ad seen by a UK based server is taxed. Bingo.

I'd do the same to all those American companies. And the UK has been one of the only countries with the ability to do that. After brexit that may not be the case...

That would take a global deal or a willingness to block certain sites. Also we likely have a problem with how transient companies are perhaps going to be with new technology coming online

We might get an agreed tax position for Facebook and Twitter just in time to see them vanish into nothing. Even the internet could be gone inside the next few decades

Why would it need an international deal? Its local consumption. And then, yes, you block them, clearly announcing it on all media outlets.