Team for Australia

[Renniks]

I'm finding it increasingly bizarre that we cannot produce a quality player for such a key position.

7 was an issue for a while; then it was a self made one, for a time, when Kvesic was being overlooked and these days with the Currys, arguably Underhill and a few more floating about in the Prem, it looks quite rosy (ignoring our selector's foibles.)

The perennial problem at 12 has at least been bodged into something acceptable for those that can live with Ford-Farrell and something to merely complain about - as opposed to agonise about - for them what don't.

Why can't we pass?? Was Dawson really the last good SH we had?

I wasn't actually a huge fan of Dawson (although I'd take the sh*t out of him now!); I liked Bracken better. I prefer my scrum-halves to have quick and accurate service as their best quality. Everything else is secondary.

We had Gomarsall till 2007ish, who was okay, and the much maligned Shaun Perry at least had a good pass on him. And young Youngs was good - he's just got crapper with age.

Puja

What I wouldn't give for a Peter Stringer style 9…

[Raggs]

That was Lee Dickson when Lancaster capped him. Quick to the breakdown, quick clean service and a reasonable box kick. Then he seemed to start to think that instead of giving quick clean service, his team would be better served by him waving his arms around staring at the ball.

[Which Tyler]

I wasn't actually a huge fan of Dawson (although I'd take the sh*t out of him now!); I liked Bracken better. I prefer my scrum-halves to have quick and accurate service as their best quality. Everything else is secondary.

We had Gomarsall till 2007ish, who was okay, and the much maligned Shaun Perry at least had a good pass on him. And young Youngs was good - he's just got crapper with age.

This - with an obligatory mention of Nick Duncombe, and to a degree Harry Ellis who we never really saw the best of.

Oh, and remind me, was young Youngs actually all that good? or was he much the same, but we made much more allowance for as A) we hadn't seen enough of him, and B) youngsters always get leeway with an expectation that they'll improve - especially consistency.
I remember Youngs being very exciting; I don't recall him ever being a passing master or Mr Reliable.

[Galfon]

Is Maro a co-cap again ?
No risks in the starters, good to see Coka. getting another chance.
Only inbalance is no back 3 cover on bench and the only non half-back is finding his way back to fitness...
(Ashton & Nowell both injured, so guess his hands were tied).Aus always have pace in these postions and bring them into play - any injuries to Daly/May/Cok. and it will be interesting.Wiggy is an accomplished footballer and seems to have learned how to run fast, so that's an option.

[Numbers]

Is Maro a co-cap again ?
No risks in the starters, good to see Coka. getting another chance.
Only inbalance is no back 3 cover on bench and the only non half-back is finding his way back to fitness...
(Ashton & Nowell both injured, so guess his hands were tied).Aus always have pace in these postions and bring them into play - any injuries to Daly/May/Cok. and it will be interesting.Wiggy is an accomplished footballer and seems to have learned how to run fast, so that's an option.

Slade will just move to fullback and they will re-arrange accordingly I should think.

[Puja]

I wasn't actually a huge fan of Dawson (although I'd take the sh*t out of him now!); I liked Bracken better. I prefer my scrum-halves to have quick and accurate service as their best quality. Everything else is secondary.

We had Gomarsall till 2007ish, who was okay, and the much maligned Shaun Perry at least had a good pass on him. And young Youngs was good - he's just got crapper with age.

This - with an obligatory mention of Nick Duncombe, and to a degree Harry Ellis who we never really saw the best of.

Oh, and remind me, was young Youngs actually all that good? or was he much the same, but we made much more allowance for as A) we hadn't seen enough of him, and B) youngsters always get leeway with an expectation that they'll improve - especially consistency.
I remember Youngs being very exciting; I don't recall him ever being a passing master or Mr Reliable.

Nick Duncombe indeed. Sad loss. Not sure about the nod to Harry Ellis though - his service was never brilliant, so he wasn't my type of scrum-half.

Youngs when he first arrived gave very quick service - still a little bit erratic passing, but he got to the rucks very quickly in his youth and wasted no time getting the ball away. Several years and several doughnuts later...

Puja

[Digby]

Youngs needs pace on the game, and we've a tendency to be slow into the set pieces, we don't tap and go, and when we rarely create turnovers we kick rather than run

A different stance on those and I rather assume Youngs will look better, whether the team as a whole could deliver though isn't known

[Oakboy]

[quote="Rich" Again I don't get the hate for Shields...]

It's simple. He's an overseas qualifier portrayed as better then the EQPs in the mix. He needs to justify that assessment with performances and he never has in any game. Worse, he never has for even a significant part of any game.

He is not as good as Robshaw who is unavailable. He is not as good as Lawes who is a lock. Where does that leave him? He's simply a SH player revered by a SH head-coach who is determined to not be proven wrong.

If you've seen something different, I am prepared to be enlightened.

[Renniks]

Sio, Latu, Kepu, Rodda, Coleman, Dempsey, Hooper, Pocock,
Genia, To'omua, Maddocks, Foley, Kerevi, Haylett-Petty, Folau

Replacements: Polota-Nafu, Ainsley, Alaalatoa, Simmons, Hanigan, Samu, Phipps, Naivalu

Looks pretty strong, but no Beale, and a 6/2 split on the bench…
which, to the point earlier about us not having back 3 cover - makes me feel slightly better

[Which Tyler]

Nick Duncombe indeed. Sad loss. Not sure about the nod to Harry Ellis though - his service was never brilliant, so he wasn't my type of scrum-half.

Youngs when he first arrived gave very quick service - still a little bit erratic passing, but he got to the rucks very quickly in his youth and wasted no time getting the ball away. Several years and several doughnuts later...

Speed of service for younger Youngs, yes, but I don't recall him being accurate even then.

Ellis... I wanted him to play, but strangely, I don't remember much about HOW he played the game. I do have fond memories of Shaun Perry though, whilst he was never terribly good, and also needed to lay off the doughnuts, he did see his job as giving the FH the round thing, to do with as he pleased - which I've always approved of.

[belgarion]

Nick Duncombe indeed. Sad loss. Not sure about the nod to Harry Ellis though - his service was never brilliant, so he wasn't my type of scrum-half.

Youngs when he first arrived gave very quick service - still a little bit erratic passing, but he got to the rucks very quickly in his youth and wasted no time getting the ball away. Several years and several doughnuts later...

Speed of service for younger Youngs, yes, but I don't recall him being accurate even then.

Ellis... I wanted him to play, but strangely, I don't remember much about HOW he played the game. I do have fond memories of Shaun Perry though, whilst he was never terribly good, and also needed to lay off the doughnuts, he did see his job as giving the FH the round thing, to do with as he pleased - which I've always approved of.

That explains why all our SHs are crap, they're not used to passing an oval shaped ball

[Puja]

Sio, Latu, Kepu, Rodda, Coleman, Dempsey, Hooper, Pocock,
Genia, To'omua, Maddocks, Foley, Kerevi, Haylett-Petty, Folau

Replacements: Polota-Nafu, Ainsley, Alaalatoa, Simmons, Hanigan, Samu, Phipps, Naivalu

Looks pretty strong, but no Beale, and a 6/2 split on the bench…
which, to the point earlier about us not having back 3 cover - makes me feel slightly better

Surely Toomua and Foley are the wrong way round on there?

Puja

[Rich]

Farrell
Te'o
Tuilagi

Then we can have curry twins on the wing and Shields at 15 because it won't matter at all how you attack with the back 3.

Because Farrell, Te'o and Tuilagi don't know how to pass ?


You should watch more rugby.

[Danno]

Depends where you want the pass to end up I guess

[Renniks]

Sio, Latu, Kepu, Rodda, Coleman, Dempsey, Hooper, Pocock,
Genia, To'omua, Maddocks, Foley, Kerevi, Haylett-Petty, Folau

Replacements: Polota-Nafu, Ainsley, Alaalatoa, Simmons, Hanigan, Samu, Phipps, Naivalu

Looks pretty strong, but no Beale, and a 6/2 split on the bench…
which, to the point earlier about us not having back 3 cover - makes me feel slightly better

Surely Toomua and Foley are the wrong way round on there?

Puja

You’d think so. But it appears that toomua is lining up at 10 and foley at 12?!

[p/d]

[quote="Rich" Again I don't get the hate for Shields...]

It's simple. He's an overseas qualifier portrayed as better then the EQPs in the mix. He needs to justify that assessment with performances and he never has in any game. Worse, he never has for even a significant part of any game.

He is not as good as Robshaw who is unavailable. He is not as good as Lawes who is a lock. Where does that leave him? He's simply a SH player revered by a SH head-coach who is determined to not be proven wrong.

If you've seen something different, I am prepared to be enlightened.

[/quote]

Dors, he is class. You just can't see it (or need to watch some rugby)

[p/d]

Surprised and a tad disappointed Hartley isn't starting. First genuine signs of captaincy shift.

Happy we have not gone with Ford/Farrell axis, however would love to have seen a swap in positions with Te'o and Slade.

[Puja]

Surprised and a tad disappointed Hartley isn't starting. First genuine signs of captaincy shift.

Happy we have not gone with Ford/Farrell axis, however would love to have seen a swap in positions with Te'o and Slade.

What would be the benefit to that? Slade's played 13 for the past 2 seasons and Te'o's played 12 almost all his union career. Putting them the other way around seems a little Andy Robinson.

Puja

[Raggs]

Teo played 13 for most his time at Leinster I believe, and mixed it up at Wuss (when he's made an appearance).

[Puja]

Teo played 13 for most his time at Leinster I believe, and mixed it up at Wuss (when he's made an appearance).

I stand corrected. He's looked a bit fish out of water when I've seen him at 13 for England and I'd only ever seen him play 12 for Wuss, so I thought that had been his position all the way through.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I feel like all the good stuff I saw from Leinster he had a 13 on his back. Perhaps it’s that you saw him play 13 for England against Italy when he started and he tends to be terrible when he starts?

Beyond that, if we’re paving the way for Tuilagi to come in (who has forgotten how to play 12 but become a 13 again since EJ joined England) it seems an odd time to make this shift.

[Oakboy]

[quote="Rich" Again I don't get the hate for Shields...]

It's simple. He's an overseas qualifier portrayed as better then the EQPs in the mix. He needs to justify that assessment with performances and he never has in any game. Worse, he never has for even a significant part of any game.

He is not as good as Robshaw who is unavailable. He is not as good as Lawes who is a lock. Where does that leave him? He's simply a SH player revered by a SH head-coach who is determined to not be proven wrong.

If you've seen something different, I am prepared to be enlightened.

Dors, he is class. You just can't see it (or need to watch some rugby)[/quote][/quote][/quote]

I've always admitted to being a yokel and not the quickest on the uptake. You know how the saying goes, 'Dorset born and Dorset bred, strong in the arm and thick in the head'.

I'll certainly wait to hear what Shields's good points are supposed to be and hope I am able to understand.

[p/d]

Surprised and a tad disappointed Hartley isn't starting. First genuine signs of captaincy shift.

Happy we have not gone with Ford/Farrell axis, however would love to have seen a swap in positions with Te'o and Slade.

What would be the benefit to that? Slade's played 13 for the past 2 seasons and Te'o's played 12 almost all his union career. Putting them the other way around seems a little Andy Robinson.

Puja

Gut feel that both players would benefit, as a positional shift would better suit their natural skills. Slade, imo, is wasted receiving ball in open space and having the responsibility of straightening the attack. Put him nearer the defensive line where he can use his feet and soft hands to release others just might create a better focus of attack than the direct running of Te'o.

Though I could just be getting misty-eyed about Grenwood and Tindall 15 years ago..

[Stom]

[quote="Rich" Again I don't get the hate for Shields...]

It's simple. He's an overseas qualifier portrayed as better then the EQPs in the mix. He needs to justify that assessment with performances and he never has in any game. Worse, he never has for even a significant part of any game.

He is not as good as Robshaw who is unavailable. He is not as good as Lawes who is a lock. Where does that leave him? He's simply a SH player revered by a SH head-coach who is determined to not be proven wrong.

If you've seen something different, I am prepared to be enlightened.

Dors, he is class. You just can't see it (or need to watch some rugby)

[/quote][/quote]

I've always admitted to being a yokel and not the quickest on the uptake. You know how the saying goes, 'Dorset born and Dorset bred, strong in the arm and thick in the head'.

I'll certainly wait to hear what Shields's good points are supposed to be and hope I am able to understand. [/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Ah'd 'erd dat 'bout Derbyshire.

[Oakboy]

Surprised and a tad disappointed Hartley isn't starting. First genuine signs of captaincy shift.

Happy we have not gone with Ford/Farrell axis, however would love to have seen a swap in positions with Te'o and Slade.

What would be the benefit to that? Slade's played 13 for the past 2 seasons and Te'o's played 12 almost all his union career. Putting them the other way around seems a little Andy Robinson.

Puja

Gut feel that both players would benefit, as a positional shift would better suit their natural skills. Slade, imo, is wasted receiving ball in open space and having the responsibility of straightening the attack. Put him nearer the defensive line where he can use his feet and soft hands to release others just might create a better focus of attack than the direct running of Te'o.

Though I could just be getting misty-eyed about Grenwood and Tindall 15 years ago..

Thinking back to the 2002 set-up and arguing that two playmakers at 10/12 added creativity is not just nostalgia. What it required was an intelligent SH who knew by experience and natural ability where both were without having to look for them for ages as our current ones do. Also, it worked with functionality (JW) at 10 and the greater flair/carrying skill (Greenwood) at 12. When we play Ford and Farrell, they often seem the wrong way round to me. Going back, when CH and JW played, it was CH at 12, despite his apparent defensive frailty.