World Cup Squad

[MrK]

Plenty of time for things to change, but what would be your 31 if you picked it right now (currently injured players included).

For Me

LH: Evans, Jones, Smith
H: Owen, Dee, Elias
TH: Lee, Lewis, Francis
2R: AWJ, Ball, Hill, Beard
BR: Moriaty, Navidi, Jenkins, Tipuric, Faletau

SH: G Davies, T Williams,, A Davies
OH: Patchell, Anscombe,
CE: Parkes, Davies, Williams
B3: Halfpenny, North, Adams, Amos, Williams

[Renniks]

Backrow obviously hardest to pick… If Warburton gets a run of games, hard to keep him out, and Davies has looked great…

[Sourdust]

Backrow obviously hardest to pick… If Warburton gets a run of games, hard to keep him out, and Davies has looked great…

Yes, it's hardly an original observation but that's because it's so pertinent.

Moriarty, Shingler, Warburton, Jenkins, Davies, Tipuric, Navidi, Faletau... how can you possibly leave one of that lot behind, let alone three?

I guess if i were making the call today it'd have to be Warburton (no game time), Navidi (worst of a great bunch) and (fingers crossed against the heresy) Tipuric. In reality I think Davies, Navidi & Shingler would miss out.

by the WC we could have Ollie Griffiths, Sam Cross and who knows who else in the mix... good luck with that!

[Sandydragon]

I was thinking earlier what our strongest match day squad would be. Based on this tour and with some allowance for players who are injured but perform well at the highest level, I’ve gone for:

1. Rob Evans
2. Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Cory Hill
5. AWJ
6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Ales Davies (his kicking from hand was superb and far better game management than other potential scrum halves)
10. Patchell
11. North
12. Parkes
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Adams
15. Halfpenny

Bench
16. Dee (but I’d be almost as happy with Elias)
17. Wyn Jones
18. Brown
19. Davies
20. Tipuric
21. G Davies
22. Anscombe
23. Amos

Back row is a nightmare to pick . I went for balance and some power against bigger teams.

[Sourdust]

Not much to argue about there. I'm unconvinced of the value of having Patch AND Anscombe in a "best" XXIII; Biggar on the bench for me, then. And I guess a fit Steff Evans has to feature, but it'd be harsh to drop Adams or Amos right now.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I was thinking earlier what our strongest match day squad would be. Based on this tour and with some allowance for players who are injured but perform well at the highest level, I’ve gone for:

1. Rob Evans
2. Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Cory Hill
5. AWJ
6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Ales Davies (his kicking from hand was superb and far better game management than other potential scrum halves)
10. Patchell
11. North
12. Parkes
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Adams
15. Halfpenny

Bench
16. Dee (but I’d be almost as happy with Elias)
17. Wyn Jones
18. Brown
19. Davies
20. Tipuric
21. G Davies
22. Anscombe
23. Amos

Back row is a nightmare to pick . I went for balance and some power against bigger teams.

I agree with much of that, except:
If fit, Warbs at 6, Tips 7, Moriarty bench.
Gareth Davies 9, Aled bench
13 decision marginal, see how JD is when fit
Steff Evans 14, Amos 15, Halfpenny bench (Patchell's kicking has improved)
But Adams is close, also interesting to see how Giles and Hewitt play when they return.

[normanski]

Not much to argue about there. I'm unconvinced of the value of having Patch AND Anscombe in a "best" XXIII; Biggar on the bench for me, then. And I guess a fit Steff Evans has to feature, but it'd be harsh to drop Adams or Amos right now.

After a season of being flogged in the Aviva Biggar won’t be in any fit state to take part in RWC.

[Sandydragon]

Not much to argue about there. I'm unconvinced of the value of having Patch AND Anscombe in a "best" XXIII; Biggar on the bench for me, then. And I guess a fit Steff Evans has to feature, but it'd be harsh to drop Adams or Amos right now.

If bigger is in the squad then he starts, I don’t see him as an impact player. Anscombe has shown that he can be subtly different to Patch off the bench.

I wouldn’t pick Evans at the moment. Evans, Adams and Amos are all in good club form, but of the 3, Evans hasn’t translated that to international level yet. Amos has consistently performed whilst Adams was very good on the weekend. Evans will be a key player going forward, it if I were picking the tour squad right now, he probably wouldn’t feature.

[Graigwen]

Not much to argue about there. I'm unconvinced of the value of having Patch AND Anscombe in a "best" XXIII; Biggar on the bench for me, then. And I guess a fit Steff Evans has to feature, but it'd be harsh to drop Adams or Amos right now.

If bigger is in the squad then he starts, I don’t see him as an impact player. Anscombe has shown that he can be subtly different to Patch off the bench.

I wouldn’t pick Evans at the moment. Evans, Adams and Amos are all in good club form, but of the 3, Evans hasn’t translated that to international level yet. Amos has consistently performed whilst Adams was very good on the weekend. Evans will be a key player going forward, it if I were picking the tour squad right now, he probably wouldn’t feature.

I agree regarding Evans, he looks to have great promise but has not yet translated that into totally convincing international form. Adams on the other hand constantly surprises me with his improvement. Both deserve more chances to develop but Adams seems to be ahead at the moment - something I did not expect to be saying at the start of last season.

Amos brings intelligence and steadyness. I think he is a player whose selection to a large extent depends on the balance selected for the rest of the team. He is clearly international standard.

Patchel has developed in the way I think most of us expected. Anscombe is also good enough to play internationals, but perhaps a little unreliable at times (including tackling) and we have not seen very much of the exciting length of the field running he showed years ago in New Zealand. There is no harm in having a selection of fly halves with different characteristics, and I would not expect these two to be the only contenders for the World Cup.

I do believe Gatland has been deliberately trying to widen the pool of potential international players to cushion us from the ravages of injury that have struck at the last two World Cups. So far it looks like he is succeeding.

I agree with other posters that the Scotland:Argentina game will be informative.

.

[Graigwen]

...and I should have included in the previous post the observation that neither Pachel nor Anscombe are as good place kickers or gatherers of their own kicks out of hand as Bigger.

.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Wait, I've forgotten about Liam Williams in all of this. I think I have him at 15 with Amos on the wing, Steff dropping out of the 23.

But this is really marginal, not much between Liam, Amos, Steff, Adams, Halfpenny for me. North not that much ahead of them either.

[Son of Mathonwy]

...and I should have included in the previous post the observation that neither Pachel nor Anscombe are as good place kickers or gatherers of their own kicks out of hand as Bigger.

True, although Patchell's kicking was as good was Biggar's in the last two matches, better range too. He doesn't have Biggar's record, of course.

And Biggar is world-class under high ball, as good as anyone in the world. But that is his most effective weapon, without that he's a solid international fly half, no more.

[Son of Mathonwy]

If bigger is in the squad then he starts, I don’t see him as an impact player.

I don't really understand this argument: Player x is not an impact player, therefore we play him for 60-70 minutes of the match.

We need to start our best players. Our bench is to replace them, therefore they are second choice. If they bring some "impact" that's great, but it's not essential.

[Sandydragon]

If bigger is in the squad then he starts, I don’t see him as an impact player.

I don't really understand this argument: Player x is not an impact player, therefore we play him for 60-70 minutes of the match.

We need to start our best players. Our bench is to replace them, therefore they are second choice. If they bring some "impact" that's great, but it's not essential.

Before the advent of tactical subs I would have agreed with you.

Now, your bench should be able to change the way you play, if you so wish. A team picked for a tighter game plan for 55 minutes can be changed to one with players who are more suited for a open game when legs get tired. Take Aled Davies for example. His box kicking was superb, the best I’ve aeen from a Welsh scrum half for some time. Form and injuries notwithstanding, I’d prefer a player like Aled Davies to start who is tactically better and replace him with Gareth Davies when the game opens up and the opportunities for sniping at the fringe increases.

Ideally, a player would be good at everything. But when they aren’t, use tactical sins to your advantage.

Halfpenny will give us a world class kicking and Defense. Attacking less so. Starting with him at full back, and North and Josh on the wings is a nice mix, add Liam or Amos to the mix when the game opens up and we are far more creative at a time when legs get tired.

I don’t agree with Eddie Jones on much, but his concept of finishers is spot on.

[Son of Mathonwy]

If bigger is in the squad then he starts, I don’t see him as an impact player.

I don't really understand this argument: Player x is not an impact player, therefore we play him for 60-70 minutes of the match.

We need to start our best players. Our bench is to replace them, therefore they are second choice. If they bring some "impact" that's great, but it's not essential.

Before the advent of tactical subs I would have agreed with you.

Now, your bench should be able to change the way you play, if you so wish. A team picked for a tighter game plan for 55 minutes can be changed to one with players who are more suited for a open game when legs get tired. Take Aled Davies for example. His box kicking was superb, the best I’ve aeen from a Welsh scrum half for some time. Form and injuries notwithstanding, I’d prefer a player like Aled Davies to start who is tactically better and replace him with Gareth Davies when the game opens up and the opportunities for sniping at the fringe increases.

Ideally, a player would be good at everything. But when they aren’t, use tactical sins to your advantage.

Halfpenny will give us a world class kicking and Defense. Attacking less so. Starting with him at full back, and North and Josh on the wings is a nice mix, add Liam or Amos to the mix when the game opens up and we are far more creative at a time when legs get tired.

I don’t agree with Eddie Jones on much, but his concept of finishers is spot on.

Fair enough, I understand the point, but for me "impact" from the bench is a nice to have but not the most important thing. With Biggar we'll struggle to play the same attacking game - I don't want that for most of the match. And anyway, who is to say we'll score our points at the end? In the last two games it was more a case of defending a lead towards the end - something Biggar is more suited for IMO.

[Sourdust]

Fair enough, I understand the point, but for me "impact" from the bench is a nice to have but not the most important thing. With Biggar we'll struggle to play the same attacking game - I don't want that for most of the match. And anyway, who is to say we'll score our points at the end? In the last two games it was more a case of defending a lead towards the end - something Biggar is more suited for IMO.

Agreed.

If we kicked off the RWC tomorrow I'd definitely start with Patchell, but if there's 20 minutes to go and we're 6 points ahead, I want Biggar back at 10 sharpish. If we're 6 points BEHIND, I don't see Anscombe as enough of a wild card to shake things up, I'd rather let Patch try to dig us out of the hole.

But I'm splitting hairs. What I really like about the current situation, is that despite him being a clear 3rd choice for me, I'd stil be quite happy to see Anscombe start at 10 for Wales. I'm not sure that's ever been true for Wales in any position, let alone at fly-half...

[MrK]

Usually, the whats our squad going to look like becomes hard around this time of year because of injuries and poor form

This time around it seems to difficult because of the depth and good form of so may players

Whats the split going to be -18/13 or 17/14 (2015 was 18/13)

Whats the make up of the pack going to be - 5 props v 6, (last time we took only 2 hookers), 5 locks is surely too many?

And the backs - 2 v 3 Outside halves, does Jonah Homes travel as a wildcard that covers SH? Will we find a work around for Webb


So many choices!

[normanski]

Usually, the whats our squad going to look like becomes hard around this time of year because of injuries and poor form

This time around it seems to difficult because of the depth and good form of so may players

Whats the split going to be -18/13 or 17/14 (2015 was 18/13)

Whats the make up of the pack going to be - 5 props v 6, (last time we took only 2 hookers), 5 locks is surely too many?

And the backs - 2 v 3 Outside halves, does Jonah Homes travel as a wildcard that covers SH? Will we find a work around for Webb


So many choices!

Yes it’s great to be looking forward to the decision making process the coaches will have to go through if we manage to keep the core of players intact through the 6N and the leagues.

Gatland and co will want to go out on a high and if we can retain most of the squad then I can see us doing well in Japan, especially as we’ve got the Australian monkey off our backs.

Really looking forward to the 6N next year and our two home games will give us a serious measure of how we are progressing.

After our defensive display against Australia, and Ireland’s against NZ, next year’s Irish game could be very tight and aggressive. While home advantage hasn’t always been great for either side in the fixture I think we can surprise a lot of people.

[MrK]

Revisiting this thread, whats people thoughts now?

LH: Evans, Jones, Smith - NO CHANGE
H: Owen, Dee, Elias - NO CHANGE
TH: Lee, Lewis, Francis - NO CHANGE
2R: AWJ, Ball, Hill, Beard - NO CHANGE
BR: Moriaty, Navidi, Jenkins, Tipuric, Faletau - WAINWRIGHT FOR JENKINS IF ELLIS ISNT FIT - SHINGLER TO MAKE A CLAIM?

SH: G Davies, T Williams,, A Davies - IF WE CAN WORK THE WEBB THING OUT ... HE GOES..ID SAY INSTEAD OF A DAVIES
OH: Patchell, Anscombe, - BIGGAR NOW REPLACES PATCHELL, TOUGH ON PATCHELL
CE: Parkes, Davies, Williams - WATKINS HAS THE CHANCE TO KEEP WILILAMS OUT,
B3: Halfpenny, North, Adams, Amos, Williams - NO CHANGE - AMOS PROBABLY MOST AT RISK...BUT FOR WHO?

[MrK]

Some squad questions

1) 18/13 or 17/14
2) 5 props or 6 - and if so whos the "utility"
3) 2 hookers or 3
4) Do we go with 3 locks and use Shingler as a back row that can cover lock
5) Do we go 4 locks and use Hill as a lock that covers back row
6) Do we risk Holmes as the 3rd choice SH
7) Will we take 3 OHs and if so, will the 3rd be Patchell or Evans?
8) I think if Haloholo is in the minds of the selectors, he'll get the 3rd Centre spot but if not - do we pick just 2 centres and rely on Adams/Lane as cover

[Numbers]

Some squad questions

1) 18/13 or 17/14
2) 5 props or 6 - and if so whos the "utility"
3) 2 hookers or 3
4) Do we go with 3 locks and use Shingler as a back row that can cover lock
5) Do we go 4 locks and use Hill as a lock that covers back row
6) Do we risk Holmes as the 3rd choice SH
7) Will we take 3 OHs and if so, will the 3rd be Patchell or Evans?
8) I think if Haloholo is in the minds of the selectors, he'll get the 3rd Centre spot but if not - do we pick just 2 centres and rely on Adams/Lane as cover

??

On point 8, North can cover centre if required as can Amos.

[Puja]

Some squad questions

1) 18/13 or 17/14
2) 5 props or 6 - and if so whos the "utility"
3) 2 hookers or 3
4) Do we go with 3 locks and use Shingler as a back row that can cover lock
5) Do we go 4 locks and use Hill as a lock that covers back row
6) Do we risk Holmes as the 3rd choice SH
7) Will we take 3 OHs and if so, will the 3rd be Patchell or Evans?
8) I think if Haloholo is in the minds of the selectors, he'll get the 3rd Centre spot but if not - do we pick just 2 centres and rely on Adams/Lane as cover

??

On point 8, North can cover centre if required as can Amos.

Holmes was a 9 in Wasps academy and recently played scrum-half for Leicester when we were lucky enough to have two 9s concussed in the first 20 minutes of a match and did an okay job (we voluntarily pick Ben Youngs, so our standards for service aren't high).

Can't imagine it's meant as a serious suggestion though.

Puja

[Numbers]

Some squad questions

1) 18/13 or 17/14
2) 5 props or 6 - and if so whos the "utility"
3) 2 hookers or 3
4) Do we go with 3 locks and use Shingler as a back row that can cover lock
5) Do we go 4 locks and use Hill as a lock that covers back row
6) Do we risk Holmes as the 3rd choice SH
7) Will we take 3 OHs and if so, will the 3rd be Patchell or Evans?
8) I think if Haloholo is in the minds of the selectors, he'll get the 3rd Centre spot but if not - do we pick just 2 centres and rely on Adams/Lane as cover

??

On point 8, North can cover centre if required as can Amos.

Holmes was a 9 in Wasps academy and recently played scrum-half for Leicester when we were lucky enough to have two 9s concussed in the first 20 minutes of a match and did an okay job (we voluntarily pick Ben Youngs, so our standards for service aren't high).

Can't imagine it's meant as a serious suggestion though.

Puja

Thanks for the clarification, I thought he meant Terry for a mo.

[MrK]

I was referring to Jonah, I see Terry regularly up in Pentyrch, where I dare see even though he'd probably still fancy himself, he's lost a yard of pace!

My query on the 9 is whether Gatland really believes we will use 3 SHs (much like his decision to only take 2 hookers last RWC) Holmes does at least give him the "Shame Williams" option a back up.

My bad on the Centre - I meant Amos and not Adams, and forgot about North - also saw Max Clark has just resigned with Bath - Hes been touted a few times as a grab from England.

Hopefully we'll see the regions finish strongly over the coming weeks and all the eligible payers put their hands up

[Puja]

I was referring to Jonah, I see Terry regularly up in Pentyrch, where I dare see even though he'd probably still fancy himself, he's lost a yard of pace!

My query on the 9 is whether Gatland really believes we will use 3 SHs (much like his decision to only take 2 hookers last RWC) Holmes does at least give him the "Shame Williams" option a back up.

My bad on the Centre - I meant Amos and not Adams, and forgot about North - also saw Max Clark has just resigned with Bath - Hes been touted a few times as a grab from England.

Hopefully we'll see the regions finish strongly over the coming weeks and all the eligible payers put their hands up

Holmes isn't a viable 9 option - Leicester used him there once when we had two scrum-halves concussed in the same game, and then had him as reserve 9 the next week when we only had one half-fit scrum half in the club (and never actually used him there). You'd be better suited to say one of the Davies was auxiliary wing cover than you would to pick Holmes as a spare 9 based upon 60 minutes of "Shit, we've literally got no-one else" for Leicester.

Puja