EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[twitchy]

I’m not sure how I feel about Naiyaravoro ... there’s no denying he is effective with the ball, but if he weren’t so big/hard to stop he’d be a very poor player.

Quite a good "one trick" for a rugby player though isn't it.

[Banquo]

I see Hutchinson has been called up to the Scotland squad.

No more than he deserves after a proper breakthrough this season.

As with Skinner at lock, we have enough talent at 13 for it not to matter too much, but still a shame to lose a talented player.

Good luck to him.

It was inevitable - he's a step above the likes of Chris Harris even at his tender age and, with his preexisting ties to Scotland, they were always going to ask him first and he was always going to accept.

While I agree that we currently have enough talent at 13 for him not to even be in the conversation for the EPS, I think we'll regret him playing for Scotland. He'll go on the next Lions tour in my opinion (or will deserve to and will be ignored by Gatland for some reason).

Puja

Hutchinson isn't that young at 23, but has blossomed this season.

[Mellsblue]

I see Hutchinson has been called up to the Scotland squad.

No more than he deserves after a proper breakthrough this season.

As with Skinner at lock, we have enough talent at 13 for it not to matter too much, but still a shame to lose a talented player.

Good luck to him.

It was inevitable - he's a step above the likes of Chris Harris even at his tender age and, with his preexisting ties to Scotland, they were always going to ask him first and he was always going to accept.

While I agree that we currently have enough talent at 13 for him not to even be in the conversation for the EPS, I think we'll regret him playing for Scotland. He'll go on the next Lions tour in my opinion (or will deserve to and will be ignored by Gatland for some reason).

Puja

Hutchinson isn't that young at 23, but has blossomed this season.

Are you saying he should’ve spent half a season at Bedford earlier in his career?

[Scrumhead]

I see Hutchinson has been called up to the Scotland squad.

No more than he deserves after a proper breakthrough this season.

As with Skinner at lock, we have enough talent at 13 for it not to matter too much, but still a shame to lose a talented player.

Good luck to him.

It was inevitable - he's a step above the likes of Chris Harris even at his tender age and, with his preexisting ties to Scotland, they were always going to ask him first and he was always going to accept.

While I agree that we currently have enough talent at 13 for him not to even be in the conversation for the EPS, I think we'll regret him playing for Scotland. He'll go on the next Lions tour in my opinion (or will deserve to and will be ignored by Gatland for some reason).

Puja

Hutchinson isn't that young at 23, but has blossomed this season.

To be fair, he’s always looked good, but this is the first season where he’s had a proper run in the side (for various reasons).

[Puja]

I see Hutchinson has been called up to the Scotland squad.

No more than he deserves after a proper breakthrough this season.

As with Skinner at lock, we have enough talent at 13 for it not to matter too much, but still a shame to lose a talented player.

Good luck to him.

It was inevitable - he's a step above the likes of Chris Harris even at his tender age and, with his preexisting ties to Scotland, they were always going to ask him first and he was always going to accept.

While I agree that we currently have enough talent at 13 for him not to even be in the conversation for the EPS, I think we'll regret him playing for Scotland. He'll go on the next Lions tour in my opinion (or will deserve to and will be ignored by Gatland for some reason).

Puja

Hutchinson isn't that young at 23, but has blossomed this season.

That's as much his past incredible ability to gain season-ending injuries the minute he looked like breaking through, as it is any reflection on his development.

Puja

[Banquo]

It was inevitable - he's a step above the likes of Chris Harris even at his tender age and, with his preexisting ties to Scotland, they were always going to ask him first and he was always going to accept.

While I agree that we currently have enough talent at 13 for him not to even be in the conversation for the EPS, I think we'll regret him playing for Scotland. He'll go on the next Lions tour in my opinion (or will deserve to and will be ignored by Gatland for some reason).

Puja

Hutchinson isn't that young at 23, but has blossomed this season.

That's as much his past incredible ability to gain season-ending injuries the minute he looked like breaking through, as it is any reflection on his development.

Puja

My point was more he's not really at a tender age. He also got this break at the expense of another's injury, so sort of karma in an iffy way.

[Mellsblue]

Just found Eng v Scot on the sky box. The biggest standout is that Youngs and Farrell’s poor passing really stymies us. It kills so many situations where simple slick and accurate hands would put us in space.

[Mellsblue]

Also, Curry’s link play is class - that backrow is nicely balanced - and Kruis makes so many small but important interventions.

[twitchy]

There seems to be a big push for spencer in the press.

[Mellsblue]

Probably because he is the form EQ scrumhalf.

[Stom]

Probably because he is the form EQ scrumhalf.

Is he? Or over the entire season is it not... Danny Care?

[Mellsblue]

Probably because he is the form EQ scrumhalf.

Is he? Or over the entire season is it not... Danny Care?

Last couple of months I’d say it’s been Spencer.

[Stom]

Probably because he is the form EQ scrumhalf.

Is he? Or over the entire season is it not... Danny Care?

Last couple of months I’d say it’s been Spencer.

Probably. Hard to be the best when you're injured for 2/3rds of it. I still think Care's better and think he's been unfairly treated by successive England coaches but especially Eddie. Who likes to play off 9 when Youngs plays and off 10 when Care plays, which is backwards...

[Mellsblue]

Is he? Or over the entire season is it not... Danny Care?

Last couple of months I’d say it’s been Spencer.

Probably. Hard to be the best when you're injured for 2/3rds of it. I still think Care's better and think he's been unfairly treated by successive England coaches but especially Eddie. Who likes to play off 9 when Youngs plays and off 10 when Care plays, which is backwards...

Agreed that he’s been harshly treated. Not sure he’s good enough at managing a game at test level to start but he’s our best finishe...replacement.

[Oakboy]

Just found Eng v Scot on the sky box. The biggest standout is that Youngs and Farrell’s poor passing really stymies us. It kills so many situations where simple slick and accurate hands would put us in space.

I think it all stems from too much kicking by 9 and 10 - as Jones's default instruction. What it amounts too is that both Youngs and Farrell don't naturally get their feet right for passing as the first option (in their different positions).

Youngs is the more natural rugby player of the two but he has always failed to take the optimum stance for fast passing from the floor with an unnecessary step adding to the lack of efficiency.

Farrell is a manufactured player not blessed with the natural slick hands of a Cipriani or Ford. I think he takes the ball prettily enough but that's where his natural talent stutters below the others. Somehow, his body is not that of a pure athlete as he moves into the pass. He can be an efficient part of a good team with a limited game plan. Basically, he suits England under Jones - unfortunately.

[Scrumhead]

Last couple of months I’d say it’s been Spencer.

Probably. Hard to be the best when you're injured for 2/3rds of it. I still think Care's better and think he's been unfairly treated by successive England coaches but especially Eddie. Who likes to play off 9 when Youngs plays and off 10 when Care plays, which is backwards...

Agreed that he’s been harshly treated. Not sure he’s good enough at managing a game at test level to start but he’s our best finishe...replacement.

Yep. I agree with that.

If Spencer has a good game today, I’d certainly have no issues with him starting in the warm-up games.

[Digby]

Potentially that's a little harsh on Robson (and Youngs)

[Digby]

Just found Eng v Scot on the sky box. The biggest standout is that Youngs and Farrell’s poor passing really stymies us. It kills so many situations where simple slick and accurate hands would put us in space.

I think it all stems from too much kicking by 9 and 10 - as Jones's default instruction. What it amounts too is that both Youngs and Farrell don't naturally get their feet right for passing as the first option (in their different positions).

Youngs is the more natural rugby player of the two but he has always failed to take the optimum stance for fast passing from the floor with an unnecessary step adding to the lack of efficiency.

Farrell is a manufactured player not blessed with the natural slick hands of a Cipriani or Ford. I think he takes the ball prettily enough but that's where his natural talent stutters below the others. Somehow, his body is not that of a pure athlete as he moves into the pass. He can be an efficient part of a good team with a limited game plan. Basically, he suits England under Jones - unfortunately.

What's the right footwork for a 10 in advance of receiving the ball? Surely you're mostly trying to be square, noting where the ball is coming from whilst having some notion of what's going on outside you?

There's perhaps something in the footwork of a 9 approaching the ball, but lots of 9s have that problem even when they don't kick much

[Oakboy]

Just found Eng v Scot on the sky box. The biggest standout is that Youngs and Farrell’s poor passing really stymies us. It kills so many situations where simple slick and accurate hands would put us in space.

I think it all stems from too much kicking by 9 and 10 - as Jones's default instruction. What it amounts too is that both Youngs and Farrell don't naturally get their feet right for passing as the first option (in their different positions).

Youngs is the more natural rugby player of the two but he has always failed to take the optimum stance for fast passing from the floor with an unnecessary step adding to the lack of efficiency.

Farrell is a manufactured player not blessed with the natural slick hands of a Cipriani or Ford. I think he takes the ball prettily enough but that's where his natural talent stutters below the others. Somehow, his body is not that of a pure athlete as he moves into the pass. He can be an efficient part of a good team with a limited game plan. Basically, he suits England under Jones - unfortunately.

What's the right footwork for a 10 in advance of receiving the ball? Surely you're mostly trying to be square, noting where the ball is coming from whilst having some notion of what's going on outside you?

There's perhaps something in the footwork of a 9 approaching the ball, but lots of 9s have that problem even when they don't kick much

I understand your question about the 10 and there is no universal answer. However, one thought is that if the 10's first thought is to kick (by inclination or instruction) his tendency must be to have preparedness to stop and plant the standing foot shortly after receiving the ball. Conversely, if the thought is to pass or run, momentum counts for more and the receipt of the ball provokes movement. A natural, flowing athlete like Ford can disguise his decision-making better than a more manufactured, play-by-numbers player like Farrell.

[Digby]

I think it all stems from too much kicking by 9 and 10 - as Jones's default instruction. What it amounts too is that both Youngs and Farrell don't naturally get their feet right for passing as the first option (in their different positions).

Youngs is the more natural rugby player of the two but he has always failed to take the optimum stance for fast passing from the floor with an unnecessary step adding to the lack of efficiency.

Farrell is a manufactured player not blessed with the natural slick hands of a Cipriani or Ford. I think he takes the ball prettily enough but that's where his natural talent stutters below the others. Somehow, his body is not that of a pure athlete as he moves into the pass. He can be an efficient part of a good team with a limited game plan. Basically, he suits England under Jones - unfortunately.

What's the right footwork for a 10 in advance of receiving the ball? Surely you're mostly trying to be square, noting where the ball is coming from whilst having some notion of what's going on outside you?

There's perhaps something in the footwork of a 9 approaching the ball, but lots of 9s have that problem even when they don't kick much

I understand your question about the 10 and there is no universal answer. However, one thought is that if the 10's first thought is to kick (by inclination or instruction) his tendency must be to have preparedness to stop and plant the standing foot shortly after receiving the ball. Conversely, if the thought is to pass or run, momentum counts for more and the receipt of the ball provokes movement. A natural, flowing athlete like Ford can disguise his decision-making better than a more manufactured, play-by-numbers player like Farrell.

I've not played much at 10, but I'd think you'd want to be square either way, and coming onto the ball slightly whether stood flat or deep. The mental pre decision you might be alluding to being much more important than how you initially set up your footwork. I am sold there's much work to be done on how 9s approach the ball even allowing for decisions already being made

It is btw, supposing you might not have played 10, very hard to see what's going on in the role unless you get lots of communication help from 12 and 13, there's just too much to look at. Though I suppose if you're playing Vets and everyone has a 42" waist as a minimum you'd probably get enough time then

[Oakboy]

What's the right footwork for a 10 in advance of receiving the ball? Surely you're mostly trying to be square, noting where the ball is coming from whilst having some notion of what's going on outside you?

There's perhaps something in the footwork of a 9 approaching the ball, but lots of 9s have that problem even when they don't kick much

I understand your question about the 10 and there is no universal answer. However, one thought is that if the 10's first thought is to kick (by inclination or instruction) his tendency must be to have preparedness to stop and plant the standing foot shortly after receiving the ball. Conversely, if the thought is to pass or run, momentum counts for more and the receipt of the ball provokes movement. A natural, flowing athlete like Ford can disguise his decision-making better than a more manufactured, play-by-numbers player like Farrell.

I've not played much at 10, but I'd think you'd want to be square either way, and coming onto the ball slightly whether stood flat or deep. The mental pre decision you might be alluding to being much more important than how you initially set up your footwork. I am sold there's much work to be done on how 9s approach the ball even allowing for decisions already being made

It is btw, supposing you might not have played 10, very hard to see what's going on in the role unless you get lots of communication help from 12 and 13, there's just too much to look at. Though I suppose if you're playing Vets and everyone has a 42" waist as a minimum you'd probably get enough time then

No, I never played 10. My playing days were as a pretty crap FB because, as a late convert from football (including several seasons in goal), I found catching the high ball and kicking from hand or divot (we never had tees) relatively easy. Oh, and I was never that fat!

[Digby]

'Was'

[Oakboy]

'Was'

Still not.

[Puja]

Mako V out with a "significant" torn hamstring: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48300016

While I'm not keen on the run of injuries Mako's got going, it might not be a terrible thing for England. Three extra weeks away from the game for all the rest of his body to recover and hopefully fit and completely niggle-free for the start of the RWC warm-ups.

Puja

[Banquo]

Mako V out with a "significant" torn hamstring: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48300016

While I'm not keen on the run of injuries Mako's got going, it might not be a terrible thing for England. Three extra weeks away from the game for all the rest of his body to recover and hopefully fit and completely niggle-free for the start of the RWC warm-ups.

Puja

consequence of playing so much over a long period of time, hopefully as you say, rest will benefit him, as it did Itoje.