Warm up games

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WaspInWales
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Re: Warm up games

Post by WaspInWales »

MrK wrote:I am loving the fact that the English press and EMB are talking about their mix n match teams against our first choice .

I’d give you the backs were mostly first choice , excluding Anscombe and Liam.

But the pack ?

I’d argue Evans , Lee (if fit) , Beard or Hill, Navidi will start , and Tipuric . Would all improve our pack

So I’d say 50% first choice pack at best.

I also think the 10 spot isn’t 100% nailed on yet .

My rose tinted glasses still thinks Gats has something up his sleeve .

For now though , I’ll give England the dues of humping Ireland .

Whilst I don’t think we are the #1 team in the world ( despite the rankings ) . I don’t think England are all that either.
Far be it from me to defend the English press and anyone else from the EMB, but I think the press may have focused on number of caps as a factor for relative strength and experience. At Twickenham England's starting XV had 390 caps between them, whereas Wales had 676 caps. Obviously that doesn't mean the players with more caps are guaranteed first team players, but I guess that may be why the press chose to use the terms they did...as well as the fact they bias scumbags ;)

Agree with your final sentence. I honestly don't see much between any of the top 6 teams. I'd have NZ in front and favourites for the RWC cup, but I also think all of the other 5 teams can beat them. It may require a number of things going their way but I feel we're all catching them up.

Also as good as it was beating Ireland, and I thought we scored some nice tries, especially the planned set piece moves from the scrum and Curry's try. Ireland were utter shite. Don't think I've seen them play that poorly before tbh. I do hope Jones doesn't get complacent about things as just a week before we struggled to get anything going in Cardiff.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Graigwen wrote:From the ever reliable Wales Online:

"Wales (possible): Hallam Amos; Owen Lane, Scott Williams, Owen Watkin, Steff Evans; Jarrod Evans, Aled Davies; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Samson Lee, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Aaron Shingler, Josh Navidi (capt), James Davies."

That would fit with the supposed Gatland:Schmidt agreement to play second string teams for the home game.

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Jesus. I'd like to see a lot of those guys playing. But not all at once.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

WaspInWales wrote:
Puja wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote:England are a confidence team. Ireland didn't pressure them so they played at their best.

When things aren't going their way they lose their cool, they struggle for ideas. Get in their faces, contain them, and their level drops.
That is an excellent summary of us. If it goes right for us, it goes very right, and it doesn't take much for us to dominate. There's not as big of a difference for us between a 30 point win and a 3 point loss as the scoreboard would have you believe.

Puja
Or...if it goes right for us, it's because of Farrell :roll:
Yes. The ice man.
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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Graigwen wrote:From the ever reliable Wales Online:

"Wales (possible): Hallam Amos; Owen Lane, Scott Williams, Owen Watkin, Steff Evans; Jarrod Evans, Aled Davies; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Samson Lee, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Aaron Shingler, Josh Navidi (capt), James Davies."

That would fit with the supposed Gatland:Schmidt agreement to play second string teams for the home game.

.
Jesus. I'd like to see a lot of those guys playing. But not all at once.
There are not a lot of decisions left to be made, this would address some. Scott Williams and Watkins together in the centre being the most obvious. Owen Lane does look good on the wing, but the intelligence of Hallon Amos has a lot going for it. Bradley Davies may not go, but no harm in giving him a run out while resting AWJ. Shingler needs more match time, as does Samson lee of fit. Moriarty needs a rest. Will Cubby Boi actually be fit?

I am not sure Carre is ready, but looking at him also locks him in.

I am not sure Steff Evans looks the part any more.

Anyway, anything approaching this team will be informative and entertaining, ir is not a must win game.

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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Graigwen wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Graigwen wrote:From the ever reliable Wales Online:

"Wales (possible): Hallam Amos; Owen Lane, Scott Williams, Owen Watkin, Steff Evans; Jarrod Evans, Aled Davies; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Samson Lee, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Aaron Shingler, Josh Navidi (capt), James Davies."

That would fit with the supposed Gatland:Schmidt agreement to play second string teams for the home game.
Jesus. I'd like to see a lot of those guys playing. But not all at once.
There are not a lot of decisions left to be made, this would address some. Scott Williams and Watkins together in the centre being the most obvious. Owen Lane does look good on the wing, but the intelligence of Hallon Amos has a lot going for it. Bradley Davies may not go, but no harm in giving him a run out while resting AWJ. Shingler needs more match time, as does Samson lee of fit. Moriarty needs a rest. Will Cubby Boi actually be fit?

I am not sure Carre is ready, but looking at him also locks him in.

I am not sure Steff Evans looks the part any more.
Agree with all of that, particularly Amos, who I think could be at least as good as Adams - if a different kind of player.

I think Steff needs to prove himself again at regional level before getting another cap.
Anyway, anything approaching this team will be informative and entertaining, ir is not a must win game.
Agh. I know I should agree with this, but I really, really don't want to lose our No. 1 spot. Nor give the Irish a confidence booster.

I just hope the bench is strong in case this team doesn't gel.
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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

Son of Mathonwy wrote: Agh. I know I should agree with this, but I really, really don't want to lose our No. 1 spot. Nor give the Irish a confidence booster.

I just hope the bench is strong in case this team doesn't gel.


I would be very happy to lose the No. 1 tag. Especially if the game yields useful information. Plus it will be an exciting game - I am bringing a nine year from Kent to see it, her first international.

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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

...and I agree about the strong bench...

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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Graigwen wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote: Agh. I know I should agree with this, but I really, really don't want to lose our No. 1 spot. Nor give the Irish a confidence booster.

I just hope the bench is strong in case this team doesn't gel.


I would be very happy to lose the No. 1 tag. Especially if the game yields useful information. Plus it will be an exciting game - I am bringing a nine year from Kent to see it, her first international.

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Do you mean you actually want to lose the No. 1 tag or that it doesn't mean much (now that we've reached it)?

Another point is that if our team is too weak, we won't learn that much - we'll be on the back foot, everyone will look poor, especially the half backs.

Anyway, I hope the nine year old gets a winning introduction to the game. :)
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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

The No 1 tag means little to me.

I won't make any comment about the very weak Irish display last Saturday except to say they will not be that poor again. However with home advantage what you could call our second choise team should be able to make a good game of it. They are development games before the World Cup, all that matters is how much they improve the team we put out in the Cup.

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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

Graigwen wrote:They are development games before the World Cup, all that matters is how much they improve the team we put out in the Cup.

.

Of course I should have added ...."...and we don't pick up injuries..."

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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

The team has now been officially announced:

"Wales

Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues); Owen Lane (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Ospreys), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Jarrod Evans (Cardiff Blues), Aled Davies (Ospreys); Rhys Carre (Saracens), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), James Davies (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (capt, Cardiff Blues).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Rob Evans (Scarlets), Leon Brown (Dragons), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Ross Moriarty (Dragons), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers)."

Well, its going to be interesting!

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Numbers
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Numbers »

Graigwen wrote:The team has now been officially announced:

"Wales

Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues); Owen Lane (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Ospreys), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Jarrod Evans (Cardiff Blues), Aled Davies (Ospreys); Rhys Carre (Saracens), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), James Davies (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (capt, Cardiff Blues).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Rob Evans (Scarlets), Leon Brown (Dragons), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Ross Moriarty (Dragons), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers)."

Well, its going to be interesting!

.
Any idea who Ireland are fielding?
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Hope the Irish also bring a second choice team (as hopefully agreed between the coaches). Otherwise our chances of a win are slim. Not that this isn't a team full of talent, just that this is the kind of selection (looks ok on paper) we often make for a trip to Rome... and end up with an unconvincing win when we find some cohesion in the last 20 minutes.
paddy no 11
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Re: Warm up games

Post by paddy no 11 »

It's a reasonable irish team, think the scrum decides the result
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Numbers
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Numbers »

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Hope the Irish also bring a second choice team (as hopefully agreed between the coaches). Otherwise our chances of a win are slim. Not that this isn't a team full of talent, just that this is the kind of selection (looks ok on paper) we often make for a trip to Rome... and end up with an unconvincing win when we find some cohesion in the last 20 minutes.
Here's their team:

Ireland: Addison; Conway, Farrell, Aki, Stockdale; Carty, Marmion; Kilcoyne, Scannell, John Ryan, Henderson, James Ryan; Beirne, O'Mahony (c), Conan.

Replacements: Best, Porter, Furlong, Toner, Murphy, L McGrath, Ringrose, D Kearney.

Nothing to flashy going on there, it should be a decent contest.
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Graigwen
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Graigwen »

The irish second row will be stronger than last week.

.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Numbers wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote:Hope the Irish also bring a second choice team (as hopefully agreed between the coaches). Otherwise our chances of a win are slim. Not that this isn't a team full of talent, just that this is the kind of selection (looks ok on paper) we often make for a trip to Rome... and end up with an unconvincing win when we find some cohesion in the last 20 minutes.
Here's their team:

Ireland: Addison; Conway, Farrell, Aki, Stockdale; Carty, Marmion; Kilcoyne, Scannell, John Ryan, Henderson, James Ryan; Beirne, O'Mahony (c), Conan.

Replacements: Best, Porter, Furlong, Toner, Murphy, L McGrath, Ringrose, D Kearney.

Nothing to flashy going on there, it should be a decent contest.
Definitely another experimental side, so it should be interesting. Hope the atmosphere inspires our boys.

Very pleased that both fly halves will get 40 minutes.
MrK
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Re: Warm up games

Post by MrK »

From a ball carrying perspective, I actually quite like that pack

From a set piece perspective, I think the lineout will be fine with Shingler and Beard , but i fear for our scrum.

Really pleased to see Lee in there and hope he has a good 40. Whilst Francis has had a good 12 months, Lee has the ability to be better if free from injuries.

Also glad that Evans has been named on the bench to get some game time - An all scarlets front row of Evans, Owens, Lee - would be my "go to" starting line up for the first game -

Carre and Brown have the chance to put in an a perfomance and seal the 5th or 6th Spot I guess.

Navidi at 8 is where I would go, its actually where I would go from the off, with Moriaty packing down at 6, just a personal preference.

Hope that the backs get enough front foot ball to show what they can do. Hopefully Williams will actually get the ball out to the Back 3 rather than taking contact or grubbers. - But I want to see the back 3 hungry for work and coming in off their line, when Steff Evans was in his run of form, he did that very well. I know the press have Amos slighly ahead of Lane, but if Lane can put in an 80 min performance (I expect to see Amos to wing and Holmes to FB in the second 1/2) he might just pip Amos.

As for Patchell. I still think we have missed a trick in not trying him at 12, but it is what it is. For his mental state, I just hope he has a good 40 when he comes on.
MrK
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Re: Warm up games

Post by MrK »

So, what we thinking ?

Evans, Smith ,WJones
Owens, Dee, Elias
lee, Francis , Lewis
AWJ, Hill, Ball, Beard
Navidi , Tipuric , moriaty , wainwright, Shingler

Davies, Williams , Davies
Biggar , Patchell
Parkes, Davies , Williams
North , Williams , Adams , 1/2p, Amos/Lane
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PoolerSaint
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Re: RE: Re: Warm up games

Post by PoolerSaint »

Which Tyler wrote:If you want to judge us by our press - shall we judge you by Wales Online?
Depends who's writing the article with WOL, anything that has Andy Howell near it is complete bollocks [emoji23]

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PoolerSaint
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Re: Warm up games

Post by PoolerSaint »

Carre & Brown proved today they are nowhere near ready yet for test match rugby as scrummagers.


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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Damn, so close. If Dee had only got to the line.

But anyway. I'll take that. We learned a fair bit. We were scrappy, made too many mistakes in the first half. And our scrum was hopeless. But we were coming back at a rate of knots at the end - we finished that match the better team, and that matters more than a win at this point.

And at last, Patchell gets his chance (I think he took it). Good news for Wales (and the Scarlets, for that matter).
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Warm up games

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

MrK wrote:So, what we thinking ?

Evans, Smith ,WJones
Owens, Dee, Elias
lee, Francis , Lewis
AWJ, Hill, Ball, Beard
Navidi , Tipuric , moriaty , wainwright, Shingler

Davies, Williams , Davies
Biggar , Patchell
Parkes, Davies , Williams
North , Williams , Adams , 1/2p, Amos/Lane
Pretty much.

Hill - yes, if fit.
Shingler was a liability at times, but he offers more than Cubby, who had a quiet game.
Patchell. 'Nuff said.
Neither of our centres had a spectacular game today but Williams looked sharper.
Amos for me - I don't think we can ignore his rugby smarts, and flexibility - although Lane did have a good game.
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Re: Warm up games

Post by MrK »

PoolerSaint wrote:Carre & Brown proved today they are nowhere near ready yet for test match rugby as scrummagers.


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I actually thought Carre held up well, but completely agree on Brown.
MrK
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Re: Warm up games

Post by MrK »

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
MrK wrote:So, what we thinking ?

Pretty much.

Hill - yes, if fit.
Shingler was a liability at times, but he offers more than Cubby, who had a quiet game.
Patchell. 'Nuff said.
Neither of our centres had a spectacular game today but Williams looked sharper.
Amos for me - I don't think we can ignore his rugby smarts, and flexibility - although Lane did have a good game.
If I was being brazen Id take Amos and Lane and not take 1/2p.

With Amos, Patchell covering 15.
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