Six Nations sell-out in prospect

[Stones of granite]

I'm surprised to not have seen this posted already.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... d-15752049

Promotion and relegation is planned for the Six Nations and Rugby Championship in 2022 under the radical new plan for a world league.
The proposed 'Nations Championship' passed a crucial litmus test in Los Angeles overnight as chief executives of the tier one nations and Six Nations boss Benjamin Morel held "very constructive talks" with World Rugby chiefs.

Plans would also include a blockbuster November final set to be staged at a neutral venue with Berlin's Olympic Stadium, Barcelona's iconic Nou Camp ground and Wembley Stadium being mooted.
But it's promotion and relegation from the Six Nations and Rugby Championship that would be the major talking point under the shake-up driven by World Rugby vice-chairman Agustin Pichot.
Fiji and Japan are set to join the Rugby Championship taking it up to the same number of countries in the Six Nations.

The Times newspaper claims to have seen details of the Nations Championship in which Test countries would play for points during the existing northern and southern hemisphere competitions, before meeting for a two-week finals play-off in Europe in November.
Promotion and relegation would be introduced via two divisions.
Division One would comprise the Six Nations and Rugby Championship teams as well as Fiji and Japan.
There would be a division below the Six Nations and Rugby Championship giving tier two nations the chance for promotion.
The likes of Georgia, Germany and Russia would have the opportunity for promotion to the Six Nations by winning the Rugby Europe Championship.
In the south it would be based on the Pacific Nations Cup pool of Canada, Samoa, Tonga and the USA, and the Americas Championship, which includes Chile, Uruguay and Brazil.

Wales for example would play five matches in the Six Nations and then take on the six countries from the southern hemisphere.
Three would come on a summer tour and the other three during the home autumn Test series.
The Six Nations would remain as it is in its February-March window.
The current June Test window - which will move to July in 2020 - will change so that the traditional three-Test tours would be replaced with one Test each in three different countries.
Then in November the southern hemisphere nations would embark on their usual tours to the north for three weeks.
A play-off series based on final points positions across the two groups of six would determine semi-finalists in the fourth week, with the final in the fifth week.

So, no room for e.g. Wales to play against Tier 2 countries in summer tests or autumn series, as the will be busy playing in the "Nations Championship". So much for broadening the game...
But, also....

A MailOnline report states that an unnamed broadcaster is driving the idea with the ambition of securing the TV rights for all three competitions - resulting in the Six Nations no longer being shown on terrestrial TV.
Sky currently have the rights to the Rugby Championship, Lions tours and England's autumn internationals, while companies such as Amazon could well enter the mix in the coming months and years.

The Championship's existing deal with BBC and ITV, who share coverage of Europe's foremost rugby event, expires in 2021, but it is unlikely they would be able to compete with the financial firepower of some paid-for services going forward.

So, it looks the whole thing is a money-grab which will end the free-to-air broadcasting of International Rugby, and push us down the road of diminishing audiences and interest like in F1. Not encouraging.

[Puja]

I hate this idea so much. The international calendar is not broken! In fact, it's working better than before with Tier 2 sides getting autumn tests. It's far from perfect, but introducing a bogus competition that nobody's interested in is madness and won't drive money up one iota.

I previously had a lot of time for Pichot, but this is ludicrous. Tell Ireland and New Zealand that their game in November was just a friendly and didn't mean anything! Look at the sold out stadia in Wales and England and France. The solution to SANZAAR not making money is not to bugger up the NH season even further. Besides, didn't we just agree a new global calendar in which SANZAAR got everything that they wanted?

Puja

[Mellsblue]

The Times does state that the 6N would only agree to this if they control the TV rights to the championship, as they think it’s crucial they keep it free to air.

Beyond that, I just think it’s a pointless idea. Mainly as it’s just not needed, but also it, as Puja says, lessens inter-tier matches and will add games to the season.

[morepork]

There is already a world cup. Mindless forced expansion in a finite space.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

There is already a world cup. Mindless forced expansion in a finite space.

This. Can't improve on it.

[Stones of granite]

Well, it looks like there is still a lot of horse-trading to be done. Hopefully, it will just go away.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ans-emerge

The new chief executive of the Six Nations has categorically ruled out the possibility of relegation being added to the championship after revelations of World Rugby's proposed plan for an annual global league emerged this week.

World Rugby's proposal is seeking to boost the commercial and broadcasting value of test rugby but Morel said he will strongly advocate for the Six Nations to remain on free-to-air coverage.

"It makes it valuable for the Six Nations to have [free-to-air] partners like BBC and ITV," he told The Times. "It makes it quite unique that we have scarcity, appointment to watch and free-to-air coverage."

[Puja]

Well, it looks like there is still a lot of horse-trading to be done. Hopefully, it will just go away.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ans-emerge

The new chief executive of the Six Nations has categorically ruled out the possibility of relegation being added to the championship after revelations of World Rugby's proposed plan for an annual global league emerged this week.

World Rugby's proposal is seeking to boost the commercial and broadcasting value of test rugby but Morel said he will strongly advocate for the Six Nations to remain on free-to-air coverage.

"It makes it valuable for the Six Nations to have [free-to-air] partners like BBC and ITV," he told The Times. "It makes it quite unique that we have scarcity, appointment to watch and free-to-air coverage."

You know, I'm a massive fan of the idea of expansion and adding relegation to the 6N. However, if it stops this abortion of an idea from taking place, I'd be willing to throw Georgia under a dozen buses.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Well, it looks like there is still a lot of horse-trading to be done. Hopefully, it will just go away.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ans-emerge

The new chief executive of the Six Nations has categorically ruled out the possibility of relegation being added to the championship after revelations of World Rugby's proposed plan for an annual global league emerged this week.

World Rugby's proposal is seeking to boost the commercial and broadcasting value of test rugby but Morel said he will strongly advocate for the Six Nations to remain on free-to-air coverage.

"It makes it valuable for the Six Nations to have [free-to-air] partners like BBC and ITV," he told The Times. "It makes it quite unique that we have scarcity, appointment to watch and free-to-air coverage."

You know, I'm a massive fan of the idea of expansion and adding relegation to the 6N. However, if it stops this abortion of an idea from taking place, I'd be willing to throw Georgia under a dozen buses.

Puja

What Puja said, but it doesn’t need to involve throwing Georgia under the bus. If they are given three 6N match-ups in the AIs then that will help them progress alongside REC matches and summer matches against SH tier two sides. That should suit them well at this stage of the their development.
I was listening to the BBC rugby podcast yesterday and O’Shea was bemoaning the fact that Italy play tier 1 countries 90% of the time. He was saying that means they struggle to gain a winning mentality or the momentum and belief of putting a run of wins together.
What we really need over the medium term is for Georgia to keep improving and someone like Romania to get their s**t together. We could then have an 8 Nations championship split in to two pools, with a final match to determine seedings and champions.

[Puja]

Well, it looks like there is still a lot of horse-trading to be done. Hopefully, it will just go away.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ans-emerge

You know, I'm a massive fan of the idea of expansion and adding relegation to the 6N. However, if it stops this abortion of an idea from taking place, I'd be willing to throw Georgia under a dozen buses.

Puja

What Puja said, but it doesn’t need to involve throwing Georgia under the bus. If they are given three 6N match-ups in the AIs then that will help them progress alongside REC matches and summer matches against SH tier two sides. That should suit them well at this stage of the their development.
I was listening to the BBC rugby podcast yesterday and O’Shea was bemoaning the fact that Italy play tier 1 countries 90% of the time. He was saying that means they struggle to gain a winning mentality or the momentum and belief of putting a run of wins together.
What we really need over the medium term is for Georgia to keep improving and someone like Romania to get their s**t together. We could then have an 8 Nations championship split in to two pools, with a final match to determine seedings and champions.

Not sure I'd be happy with the idea of not facing our traditional rivals each year. I think I'd prefer a 7N with promotion and relegation biannually (like the ENC does). That way we use the same number of calendar weekends, while keeping a rest week (and one/two easier games to rotate in) and you can introduce promotion and relegation without it just being Italy going up and down - Georgia would have a chance to beat Italy, while Romania et al would be competitive against Georgia.

Not got much sympathy for O'Shea's complaint though - the power to play Tier 2 and 3 nations has been within them all along, but instead they choose to use their summer internationals and autumn internationals (this year's token Georgia game aside) getting dicked by Australia and New Zealand for the Nth time because they don't want the risk of losing an away game in Russia or Romania and having their Tier 1 status called into question.

On the side of the other ENC nations getting their shit together, Russia are stepping things up now that they've got to the RWC, and Germany have managed to scrape together the funding to keep their high performance scheme together for another international window.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

You know, I'm a massive fan of the idea of expansion and adding relegation to the 6N. However, if it stops this abortion of an idea from taking place, I'd be willing to throw Georgia under a dozen buses.

Puja

What Puja said, but it doesn’t need to involve throwing Georgia under the bus. If they are given three 6N match-ups in the AIs then that will help them progress alongside REC matches and summer matches against SH tier two sides. That should suit them well at this stage of the their development.
I was listening to the BBC rugby podcast yesterday and O’Shea was bemoaning the fact that Italy play tier 1 countries 90% of the time. He was saying that means they struggle to gain a winning mentality or the momentum and belief of putting a run of wins together.
What we really need over the medium term is for Georgia to keep improving and someone like Romania to get their s**t together. We could then have an 8 Nations championship split in to two pools, with a final match to determine seedings and champions.

Not sure I'd be happy with the idea of not facing our traditional rivals each year. I think I'd prefer a 7N with promotion and relegation biannually (like the ENC does). That way we use the same number of calendar weekends, while keeping a rest week (and one/two easier games to rotate in) and you can introduce promotion and relegation without it just being Italy going up and down - Georgia would have a chance to beat Italy, while Romania et al would be competitive against Georgia.

Not got much sympathy for O'Shea's complaint though - the power to play Tier 2 and 3 nations has been within them all along, but instead they choose to use their summer internationals and autumn internationals (this year's token Georgia game aside) getting dicked by Australia and New Zealand for the Nth time because they don't want the risk of losing an away game in Russia or Romania and having their Tier 1 status called into question.

On the side of the other ENC nations getting their shit together, Russia are stepping things up now that they've got to the RWC, and Germany have managed to scrape together the funding to keep their high performance scheme together for another international window.

Puja

I’m not sure an extra match against a Georgian pack is an easy game. Also, an extra match is an extra match, regardless of oppo. Don’t World Rugby allocate matches?

[Puja]

What Puja said, but it doesn’t need to involve throwing Georgia under the bus. If they are given three 6N match-ups in the AIs then that will help them progress alongside REC matches and summer matches against SH tier two sides. That should suit them well at this stage of the their development.
I was listening to the BBC rugby podcast yesterday and O’Shea was bemoaning the fact that Italy play tier 1 countries 90% of the time. He was saying that means they struggle to gain a winning mentality or the momentum and belief of putting a run of wins together.
What we really need over the medium term is for Georgia to keep improving and someone like Romania to get their s**t together. We could then have an 8 Nations championship split in to two pools, with a final match to determine seedings and champions.

Not sure I'd be happy with the idea of not facing our traditional rivals each year. I think I'd prefer a 7N with promotion and relegation biannually (like the ENC does). That way we use the same number of calendar weekends, while keeping a rest week (and one/two easier games to rotate in) and you can introduce promotion and relegation without it just being Italy going up and down - Georgia would have a chance to beat Italy, while Romania et al would be competitive against Georgia.

Not got much sympathy for O'Shea's complaint though - the power to play Tier 2 and 3 nations has been within them all along, but instead they choose to use their summer internationals and autumn internationals (this year's token Georgia game aside) getting dicked by Australia and New Zealand for the Nth time because they don't want the risk of losing an away game in Russia or Romania and having their Tier 1 status called into question.

On the side of the other ENC nations getting their shit together, Russia are stepping things up now that they've got to the RWC, and Germany have managed to scrape together the funding to keep their high performance scheme together for another international window.

Puja

I’m not sure an extra match against a Georgian pack is an easy game. Also, an extra match is an extra match, regardless of oppo. Don’t World Rugby allocate matches?

Yes, but they take into account requests, lobbying, etc and they like Italy as a big potential market that they want to keep happy.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

I like the idea. It gives us real relegation and doesn't mess with the calendar too much. The Six Nations is unchanged except for the improvement of relegation. And we get a winner every year.

With the provisos....
SIX NATIONS STAYS FREE TO AIR
and
NO RUGBY ON AMAZON-TYPE STREAM-ONLY PROVIDERS

[Son of Mathonwy]

So it's been canned. At least for the time being.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48698587

Probably a good thing... mainly because I don't entirely trust these money-driven bastards to look after the game.

In retrospect, hard to see a plan including relegation ever getting approved if Italy and Scotland can veto it. And that was pretty much the best part of the plan for me anyway.

[Puja]

I never trusted the figures involved in the deal. £6bn just for making the summer and autumn internationals into an overarching competition, with the promise that there'd only be one extra international and the 6N would stay on FTA television? Maybe they'd find some suckers willing to pay that first time around but, long term, money doesn't rain from the sky just because you've rebranded.

Puja

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I never trusted the figures involved in the deal. £6bn just for making the summer and autumn internationals into an overarching competition, with the promise that there'd only be one extra international and the 6N would stay on FTA television? Maybe they'd find some suckers willing to pay that first time around but, long term, money doesn't rain from the sky just because you've rebranded.

Puja

As people should have noticed from the Heineken Cup

[Digby]

The administrators are long waiting a huge explosion in funding coming from online content/sales. But nobody in any sport has really worked out a way yet to harvest much money from online viewers, and all whilst traditional viewing habits are perhaps settling in for a period of decline.

[Big D]

With the 6N rumour coming back again, if CVC continue to buy into the NH competitions are we likely to see them create their own streaming service just for those competitions. If they become like a rugby pass and hold all the NH competitions and internationals there may be a market for that to work if reasonably priced.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The sell-out is on track again:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49722639