Trump

[Digby]

And sharks, with frigging lasers on their heads - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49901878

[WaspInWales]

He's toast.

I mean, come on...he just keeps digging himself deeper into the mire and throwing baseless accusations out there.

Under scrutiny and oath, he is surely going to come unstuck?

It's one thing being able to go off-script in front of the press and still being able to dictate what he says, but in front of switched-on committee members, he has got to be yesterday's news They'll have him for breakfast.

[Which Tyler]

The Peach Cockwomble seems to be feeling rattled. He's always been unhinged, but this is full-on drooling with his underpants on his head!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49914704

Article Starts

During a joint news conference with Finnish President Sauli Niinistö, Mr Trump called Mr Biden and his son, Hunter, "stone-cold corrupt".

Mr Trump directed much of his anger towards House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, calling him "shifty Schiff, "a lowlife" and saying he "should resign from office in disgrace".

He added: "Frankly, they should look at him for treason."

Mr Trump also stated that he believed Mr Schiff had "helped write" a complaint about the call filed by a whistleblower, without offering evidence.

The US president told reporters that only "legitimate" whistleblowers should be protected.

"This country has to find out who this person was, because that person's a spy, in my opinion," Mr Trump said.

He labelled the entire inquiry a "hoax" and a "fraudulent crime on the American people" while maintaining he would "always co-operate" with Congress.

The US president also sparred at the White House with a Reuters correspondent, who asked him what he considered treasonous.

As the Finnish leader looked on, Mr Trump said "there are those who think I'm a very stable genius" and said he "probably will be bringing a lot of litigation" against those who participated in the Russia investigation.

When the reporter pressed Mr Trump, the US president cut him off, saying: "Don't be rude."

Earlier, Mr Trump raged at the most powerful elected Democrat, House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Mr Schiff on Twitter, accusing Democrats of focusing on "BULLSHIT".

Mr Trump said Mrs Pelosi should focus on her own city, San Francisco, which he described as a "tent city" of homeless people.

Article Continues

[Puja]

Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Puja]

Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.

[Puja]

In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.

Idiocy and wilful misinterpretation of the law isn't a legal defence though - plays well in the media, but if it ever went to court then that 'defence' wouldn't last a second.

I'm baffled as to why Biden isn't suing. A lot of what Trump says is couched as questions and "people say" which does protect him, but this was a direct accusation of corruption and I'm amazed that Biden's letting it ride.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.

Idiocy and wilful misinterpretation of the law isn't a legal defence though - plays well in the media, but if it ever went to court then that 'defence' wouldn't last a second.

I'm baffled as to why Biden isn't suing. A lot of what Trump says is couched as questions and "people say" which does protect him, but this was a direct accusation of corruption and I'm amazed that Biden's letting it ride.

Puja

Completely agree with you mate, it's absolutely bonkers.

If Trump was in the UK, he's be sued a few times a week.

[Digby]

What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

[WaspInWales]

What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Digby]

What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

[Puja]

What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

[Digby]

He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

[WaspInWales]

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Digby]

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

That's not how it works is it, just oral Vs written?

Slander is defamatory comment that's transient in nature and libel permanent, so if you say something in front of a load of cameras that creates a permanent record of a defamatory comment and thus is libellous, or is that wrong?

[WaspInWales]

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

That's not how it works is it, just oral Vs written?

Slander is defamatory comment that's transient in nature and libel permanent, so if you say something in front of a load of cameras that creates a permanent record of a defamatory comment and thus is libellous, or is that wrong?

You'd probably have to ask Eugene for the finer details, but I do believe slander is spoken defamation and libel is something published. I think you're probably correct about the permanence of the comment/claim.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Puja]

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

I don't see how Hunter getting a highly paid job makes Joe corrupt. There's no suggestion that Joe procured the job for him or that he did him any favours as VP - obviously he gets a leg up in the business world because of his surname and connections, but there's been no rational claim of corruption putside of Trump's head.

Puja

[Digby]

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

I don't see how Hunter getting a highly paid job makes Joe corrupt. There's no suggestion that Joe procured the job for him or that he did him any favours as VP - obviously he gets a leg up in the business world because of his surname and connections, but there's been no rational claim of corruption putside of Trump's head.

Puja

I'd assume in the US given how strong they are on free speech to the point of demented speech you would struggle to say possible nepotism cannot be labelled stone-cold corruption. Though again odd in Trump world is how often he tries to sue people who say the least thing about him

[gransoporro]

I can definitely understand the suspicion of nepotism here.

But unless there is some proof that he got his job(s) as part of a pay for play, there is no room for a specific investigation in US, and all of it is an allegation at best. It does not make Joe Biden a corrupt individual.

Other countries may be more amenable, in US, allegedly, they investigate crimes not individuals.

[Digby]

Other countries may be more amenable, in US, allegedly, they investigate crimes not individuals.

Who is they? After all these years of Trump chanting 'lock her up' it would seem the fat orange one is very happy to go at the individual level

[gransoporro]

They is the DOJ. Unless Barr has introduced the Trump rule (“I have the absolute power to do so”).

[canta_brian]

One would assume Trump knows nepotism when he sees it.

[Digby]

One would assume Trump knows nepotism when he sees it.

Trump himself is a self made man, and in no way the beneficiary of a huge inheritance from a property developer who was in no way corrupt

[Digby]

Did Turkey promise to investigate Joe Biden if they could massacre the Kurds in northern Syria?