Finally a proper look at Sarries and the salary cap

[Digby]

I'm guessing nothing happens

[Which Tyler]

I'm guessing dispute over the regulations.

I'm guessing both regulations and amount. If its the Saracen's property portfolio, then any one of them could easily push it over the £350k threshold.
There's also absolutely no doubt that Stay would also push to remove the cap.

I'm guessing nothing happens

That's hot to be where the smart money is.
If so, then Bristol will be the best team in the world within 5 years as money will be all that matters

[p/d]

Docked 35 points and fined £5m

[Gloskarlos]

Just posted a link to an article in the Guardian on the wrong thread entirely

[Mellsblue]

Ouch. This could get nasty.

[p/d]

Just posted a link to an article in the Guardian on the wrong thread entirely

I had to go searching for this thread, but can you copy the article across.

[Banquo]

wow. Bad news for English rugby imo though. Love em or hate them, they have shown the way on the pitch, and mostly off it too, but will probably rightly be absolutely condemned.

Legal wrangling to follow.

[Gloskarlos]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... cap-breach

[Peej]

The appeal will be lodged, and take more than the rest of the season to be world through.

What it will also create is an us and them, siege mentality within Sarries. Watch out for some kind of match-day gimmick at Allianz, and a general poisoning of the atmosphere

[SixAndAHalf]

I wonder will this lead to a challenge to the salary cap as a concept?

[Raggs]

wow. Bad news for English rugby imo though. Love em or hate them, they have shown the way on the pitch, and mostly off it too, but will probably rightly be absolutely condemned.

Legal wrangling to follow.

It's a lot easier to show the way when you can afford a much better squad, helping create a winning mentality.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to keep your starlets happy, and not get poached.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to poach other teams starlets, not only weakening them, but strengthening your future.

They obviously have a top end coaching team, but so much, is so much easier, when you can do the above.

[Mellsblue]

I wonder will this lead to a challenge to the salary cap as a concept?

Yes.

[Banquo]

wow. Bad news for English rugby imo though. Love em or hate them, they have shown the way on the pitch, and mostly off it too, but will probably rightly be absolutely condemned.

Legal wrangling to follow.

It's a lot easier to show the way when you can afford a much better squad, helping create a winning mentality.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to keep your starlets happy, and not get poached.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to poach other teams starlets, not only weakening them, but strengthening your future.

They obviously have a top end coaching team, but so much, is so much easier, when you can do the above.

I get all that, and said they'd be rightly comdemned, and this is a predictable response from the poorer cousins. I just wish they'd done it all above board.

[Raggs]

wow. Bad news for English rugby imo though. Love em or hate them, they have shown the way on the pitch, and mostly off it too, but will probably rightly be absolutely condemned.

Legal wrangling to follow.

It's a lot easier to show the way when you can afford a much better squad, helping create a winning mentality.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to keep your starlets happy, and not get poached.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to poach other teams starlets, not only weakening them, but strengthening your future.

They obviously have a top end coaching team, but so much, is so much easier, when you can do the above.

I get all that, and a predictable response from the poorer cousins. I just wish they'd done it all above board.

They wouldn't have been able to. There's no way they keep all that young talent happy just playing prem cup, when other clubs would be offering prem games and a bigger contract.

[Banquo]

It's a lot easier to show the way when you can afford a much better squad, helping create a winning mentality.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to keep your starlets happy, and not get poached.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to poach other teams starlets, not only weakening them, but strengthening your future.

They obviously have a top end coaching team, but so much, is so much easier, when you can do the above.

I get all that, and a predictable response from the poorer cousins. I just wish they'd done it all above board.

They wouldn't have been able to. There's no way they keep all that young talent happy just playing prem cup, when other clubs would be offering prem games and a bigger contract.

aye. It still remains a shame and likely shameful.

[twitchy]

It will be very interesting to see where all the sarries players end up. How many do you think will have to leave?

[Stom]

It will be very interesting to see where all the sarries players end up. How many do you think will have to leave?

Dunno, but they don't have a giant squad...so anyone who leaves needs replacing. Which will be very tough for them.

[Puja]

It will be very interesting to see where all the sarries players end up. How many do you think will have to leave?

That assumes that this punishment is enforceable. I foresee this going to the courts and I think Saracens will wreck the legality of even having a salary cap before they submit to this punishment.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

It will be very interesting to see where all the sarries players end up. How many do you think will have to leave?

That assumes that this punishment is enforceable. I foresee this going to the courts and I think Saracens will wreck the legality of even having a salary cap before they submit to this punishment.

Puja

Yep.

[twitchy]

So if it's not enforceable then what happens?

[Puja]

So if it's not enforceable then what happens?

I can see two potential scenarios coming out of this:

1) Saracens bring down the salary cap entirely and the Prem becomes a free for all. There's massive wage inflation and about 5 years of clubs getting into huge debt chasing the dream. Then about 2-3 teams go bust simultaneously and everything goes horribly wrong.

Or

2) Saracens lose, get hit with the punishment, and face a year outside of the ERC and having to restructure their squad entirely. Nigel Wray quits in a fit of pique. Saracens go under.

Neither of these seem like good outcomes.

Puja

[Tigersman]

So Williams rumoured off (But if he was the marquee player like said then his cap won't affect the overspend).
Kpoku rumoured off
Malins rumoured off

No doubt Barritt and Wigglesworth will most likely retire.

[Stom]

It will be very interesting to see where all the sarries players end up. How many do you think will have to leave?

That assumes that this punishment is enforceable. I foresee this going to the courts and I think Saracens will wreck the legality of even having a salary cap before they submit to this punishment.

Puja

I still don't understand why it could possibly be illegal for a sporting competition to impose rules and regulations on the teams.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It's a lot easier to show the way when you can afford a much better squad, helping create a winning mentality.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to keep your starlets happy, and not get poached.

It's a lot easier when you can afford to poach other teams starlets, not only weakening them, but strengthening your future.

They obviously have a top end coaching team, but so much, is so much easier, when you can do the above.

I get all that, and a predictable response from the poorer cousins. I just wish they'd done it all above board.

They wouldn't have been able to. There's no way they keep all that young talent happy just playing prem cup, when other clubs would be offering prem games and a bigger contract.

Which is an odd one in a sense. Yes they should be condemned, absolutely, however they’ve have grown so much from their own talent pipeline. Almost too successfully as to keep them all almost requires a breach with today’s wages.

Think Mako (made at Sarries though you can argue was he really their pipeline), George, Itoje, Kruis, Isiekwe, Wray, Spencer, Farrell, Tompkins, Goode.

On top of that they’ve rarely gone big, Billy aside, until really Lozowski, Williams and now Daly. Maybe add Maitland. They’ve picked up waifs and strays, potential and been pretty shrewd. But in doing all this they appear to have totally gazumped the salary cap.

As much as I want to condemn them I must also commend them that they have built a genuine pipeline.

Caveat to say this is post the original big spend on names back in the day.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Sarries response:

https://www.saracens.com/club-statement-salary-cap/