London Scottish

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Oli Grove has quit pro rugby. He'll be playing semi pro and pursuing another career.

London Scottish look to be in a very bad place for next season at the moment. Squad looks threadbare and I cannot see that being helped by a bunch of on-loan Scots jetting back and forth between international tournaments and parent clubs. Unless there is a busy summer planned LS could be slipping down the league next season.

[Big D]

Apparently Miller the EDP 6/8 Edinburgh player will be at LS for the 16/17 season.

[Chunks Baws]

I haven't read the details but the tie up between the SRU and LS is off after some disagreement.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I haven't read the details but the tie up between the SRU and LS is off after some disagreement.

Will wait for details but I hope LS's lack of activity in the transfer market was not because they were expecting SRU reinforcements and deals are being done behind the scenes. They could be in a world of trouble next season if not.

[Cameo]

Could be wrong but i heard LS basically didnt have the funding to keep to the deal.

[Chunks Baws]

Just read the Daily Mail article from yesterday and it says the fall out started over a disagreement about moving the training from Richmond to the state of the art place the England team use. They are arguing about the costs and it looks like the SRU don't think LS are "commercially viable".

[Cameo]

Just read the Daily Mail article from yesterday and it says the fall out started over a disagreement about moving the training from Richmond to the state of the art place the England team use. They are arguing about the costs and it looks like the SRU don't think LS are "commercially viable".

Yeah, not much detail in that so im guessing there'll be more to come out. There does seem to have been a lot of upheaval at LS over the last few years so I wonder if the SRU just lost faith in how it's run. Pure speculation though

[Chunks Baws]

London Scottish statement. SRU don't look good.

http://www.londonscottish.com/mobile/ne ... 0vtA1fnfow

[hugh_woatmeigh]

London Scottish statement. SRU don't look good.

http://www.londonscottish.com/mobile/ne ... 0vtA1fnfow

Yup. LS could go down next season, they don't have a full squad. And to think some of us were hoping they could be pro club number 3.

I wonder if the Scottish prem clubs kicked up a fuss? I'm sure many of the original 14 would have been attached to one. That's quite a lot of players to pull out of the domestic game.

Very, very sad reading. So there won't be a single loan deal.

[sharvey44]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

[Cameo]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

You seem to be closer to it so I was wondering if you could tell me if there is anything to my impression that LS has been a bit shambolic over the last couple of years (off the pitch)? Just seems to have been a lot of upheaval

[sharvey44]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

You seem to be closer to it so I was wondering if you could tell me if there is anything to my impression that LS has been a bit shambolic over the last couple of years (off the pitch)? Just seems to have been a lot of upheaval

Having had a number of conversations with various players and now ex-players over the last few months I can only really give my opinons, their sides and some conjecture in between.. I'm sure there are other sides to the story.

It all really started with Amor departing for Eng 7s. We then had Mike Friday as DoR, Pete Richards as backs and Buckland as forwards. Everything was great for the first half of that season until Bucks had a massive falling out with the board and walked (another story but one for beer chat rather than forum). It was a bit naive and should have been handled better. Friday then left abruptly to take USA 7s and Rico was promoted to Head Coach, without a proper process. The forwards coach we got in wasn't up to standards really. Rico managed to alienate most of the squad and nearly all of the supporters. The club cut the squad a bit to deeply last season to reduce budgets and along with the squad management issues resulted in our below average position. Although most of the boys were playing for each other they still struggled without quality coaching and direction.

With the SRU "plans" being formulated the discussions around contracts were strung out for longer than it should have been. Many were treated very badly and it caused all of the squad to be unfocused and worried about their futures.

Some will say the boys didn't take their chances to shine (Bedford game on Sky) but when you don't know how secure your livelihood is then I can understand heads would be elsewhere.

And now clearly The Fat Bluffer has fwcked LS completely. I cant see LS getting 15 players, a physio and S&C in place to survive a season in The Champ. At best relegation looms. At worst we have a repeat of the Tony Tiarks saga.

There are many other mini stories from the last two years that could be published but I'd be here all day.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

You seem to be closer to it so I was wondering if you could tell me if there is anything to my impression that LS has been a bit shambolic over the last couple of years (off the pitch)? Just seems to have been a lot of upheaval

Having had a number of conversations with various players and now ex-players over the last few months I can only really give my opinons, their sides and some conjecture in between.. I'm sure there are other sides to the story.

It all really started with Amor departing for Eng 7s. We then had Mike Friday as DoR, Pete Richards as backs and Buckland as forwards. Everything was great for the first half of that season until Bucks had a massive falling out with the board and walked (another story but one for beer chat rather than forum). It was a bit naive and should have been handled better. Friday then left abruptly to take USA 7s and Rico was promoted to Head Coach, without a proper process. The forwards coach we got in wasn't up to standards really. Rico managed to alienate most of the squad and nearly all of the supporters. The club cut the squad a bit to deeply last season to reduce budgets and along with the squad management issues resulted in our below average position. Although most of the boys were playing for each other they still struggled without quality coaching and direction.

With the SRU "plans" being formulated the discussions around contracts were strung out for longer than it should have been. Many were treated very badly and it caused all of the squad to be unfocused and worried about their futures.

Some will say the boys didn't take their chances to shine (Bedford game on Sky) but when you don't know how secure your livelihood is then I can understand heads would be elsewhere.

And now clearly The Fat Bluffer has fwcked LS completely. I cant see LS getting 15 players, a physio and S&C in place to survive a season in The Champ. At best relegation looms. At worst we have a repeat of the Tony Tiarks saga.

There are many other mini stories from the last two years that could be published but I'd be here all day.

This is the key point that hasn't sunk in with a lot of Scottish (national) rugby fans just yet. LS are currently dead cert to be relegated, I don't believe they can put out a full squad as it stands. Even if an investor comes forward to bankroll some potential signings between now and the start of next season all the best buys will have been snapped up already.

The SRU have every right to back out of the deal if something was not adding up but I still don't see why the initiative couldn't have been scaled back rather than pulled completely. They've had the core of their coaching team and squad disappear over night. No team can survive that. I really hope the SRU are willing to renegotiate the deal as this is an absolute disaster. Most of us recognise that LS are at the very least a superb development opportunity for our fringe players and youngsters. Scottish Rugby is going to be in a much, much poorer position without them.

[Mellsblue]

Every man and his dog knows that Championship teams aren't a going concern. Bedford aim for, and usually miss, an £80k per annum loss and we own our own ground, usually have the second largest average attendance and way above average appearances on Sky - I presume this leads to more £££ rather than TV payments being spread evenly across the entire division.
If the SRU didn't realise LS relied on benefactors then they are both clueless on the basic financial realities of the Championship clubs and clearly didn't undertake due diligence. I fail to believe both are true and therefore think it's a convenient excuse.
In the short-term I'm glad as it's one less club with the potential to financially out muscle Bedford. In the long-term the Championship needs to get stronger across the board if it's ever going to attract enough sponsorship etc to make the clubs financially stable.

[Mellsblue]

On a possibly related note Jason Hill has joined Bedford from Glasgow Warriors on a 'partnership contract'. This was announced on 15th May, which knowing Bedford's PR means the deal could've been signed any time in the preceding 3 weeks. I've never heard of a 'partnership contract' before and it may be a long running scheme but if not it makes you wonder if the SRU have been planning to do the dirty on LS for a while

Anyway, anyone know if Mr Hill is any good?

[switchskier]

On a possibly related note Jason Hill has joined Bedford from Glasgow Warriors on a 'partnership contract'. This was announced on 15th May, which knowing Bedford's PR means the deal could've been signed any time in the preceding 3 weeks. I've never heard of a 'partnership contract' before and it may be a long running scheme but if not it makes you wonder if the SRU have been planning to do the dirty on LS for a while

Anyway, anyone know if Mr Hill is any good?

I hadn't realised that he was in the warriors squad but his reputation at Heriots is very good. They were expecting to lose him but hoping to keep him. Quite a step up though from scottish prem to championship.

[Cameo]

On a possibly related note Jason Hill has joined Bedford from Glasgow Warriors on a 'partnership contract'. This was announced on 15th May, which knowing Bedford's PR means the deal could've been signed any time in the preceding 3 weeks. I've never heard of a 'partnership contract' before and it may be a long running scheme but if not it makes you wonder if the SRU have been planning to do the dirty on LS for a while

Anyway, anyone know if Mr Hill is any good?

Yeah, he did very well for Heriots for a few years and got a contract off the back of that. Hasnt really got a game so dont know what hel be like at pro level though

[Mellsblue]

Cheers, gents.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

Did you go to the members forum? Would be interested to hear the plan.

[sharvey44]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

Did you go to the members forum? Would be interested to hear the plan.

I did. The basic plan is they need to find £300k and a shed load of players. They seem confident they can find the players and hopefully fundraise the budget shortfall. I think LS will bounce back from this but it will be touch and go whether they survive in the Champ.

Its the third time the SRU have fwcked LS over and I'm sure it wont be the last.

I must also apologise for suggesting it was SJ who ruined this deal. It was the blazers who killed it not TFB.

Unless someone has any link to the SRU board I don't think we'll ever find out why the board decided to pull out at the last minute. I heard rumours that it was because a few of them didn't like the idea of Scottish finances (U20 players + coaches) leaving Scotland.

I genuinely feel sorry for the boys that signed contracts on the basis of top quality training environments and increased SRU involvement that would mean the flogging they take week in week out in the Champ wasn't for nothing.

We shall see what happens over the next few weeks but I don't think anyone will be eager to get involved with the SRU again. One thing to remember is it was the SRU who suggested it in the first place. LS didn't go to them cap in hand.

[Cameo]

Emergency meeting at the club this evening to tell members what the plan is going forward.

Although I'm not surprised I still cant quite believe the SRU have pulled out at the 11th hour.

Did you go to the members forum? Would be interested to hear the plan.

I did. The basic plan is they need to find £300k and a shed load of players. They seem confident they can find the players and hopefully fundraise the budget shortfall. I think LS will bounce back from this but it will be touch and go whether they survive in the Champ.

Its the third time the SRU have fwcked LS over and I'm sure it wont be the last.

I must also apologise for suggesting it was SJ who ruined this deal. It was the blazers who killed it not TFB.

Unless someone has any link to the SRU board I don't think we'll ever find out why the board decided to pull out at the last minute. I heard rumours that it was because a few of them didn't like the idea of Scottish finances (U20 players + coaches) leaving Scotland.

I genuinely feel sorry for the boys that signed contracts on the basis of top quality training environments and increased SRU involvement that would mean the flogging they take week in week out in the Champ wasn't for nothing.

We shall see what happens over the next few weeks but I don't think anyone will be eager to get involved with the SRU again. One thing to remember is it was the SRU who suggested it in the first place. LS didn't go to them cap in hand.

Nightmare for you and really not good to pull out this late but I can see the argument about the finances leaving Scotland. I'm not saying the money should never leave Scotland but if it is it needs to be for a clear purpose. I wasnt under the impression that London Scottish were going to play players who weren't deserving of a game just because the SRU told them to and were paying them. If not then I don't see what is stopping these players getting experience in the Championship without the SRU backing it. I might not be expressing myself well but what I am getting at is that I am not sure the SRU's and London Scottish's interests are aligned enough to make it worth ploughing money into them. I wish they could be good relations and it would be ideal if the SRU could agree that that would be a loan move of choice for young players but once we go beyond that to putting money in it becomes a question of balancing that against where else the money could go.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

They've signed Grant Shiells. Slowly but surely moving towards building a decent championship XV.

They've also signed Boladau - fiji born no 8 with very little pro experience. Not exactly Mark Bright now...

[hp18]

. Scottish Rugby and London Scottish can confirm that a revised player development pathway will operate for the forthcoming season 2016/17.

Up to eight players will be seconded from Scotland to continue their development under the guidance of the Head of Scotland Age-Grade programme, Sean Lineen, who will continue in his part-time role with London Scottish.

The arrangements in place since January this year will now operate on a more modest and achievable scale better suited to the support available from London Scottish and will build on the success of the trial last season.

Sir David Reid, Chairman of London Scottish, commented: “We fully recognise that the concerns expressed by Scottish Rugby’s Board over the financial commitment and infrastructure needed from London Scottish under the previous arrangements were entirely legitimate.

“London Scottish will now take full financial responsibility for its areas identified in the partnership, which are designed to enhance the performance environment in which London Scottish players can train and prepare.”

Rod Lynch, President of the club, added: “We regret that our recent statements and media coverage of them may have cast a cloud over such an exciting opportunity and are grateful that Scottish Rugby was still willing to continue a dialogue with us. We are now looking to move this mutually beneficial opportunity forward and will provide young players with exposure to Championship rugby and its associated benefits.

“Championship Rugby is a challenging environment commercially and we acknowledge that the concerns Scottish Rugby’s Board voiced were valid. I am delighted we have now been able to address these.”

Mark Dodson, Chief Executive of Scottish Rugby, said: “We see this as a 12-month relationship at this time. We want to move this initiative forward to continue to give identified Scottish players the opportunity to develop into international players of the future.

“We had to satisfy ourselves that the club could deliver a performance environment suitable to enable talented young players to develop, before we committed further. We are pleased that the club has addressed our concerns and are now satisfied that the reduced scale of the programme matches the support the club can provide.”

[Stones of granite]

. Scottish Rugby and London Scottish can confirm that a revised player development pathway will operate for the forthcoming season 2016/17.

Up to eight players will be seconded from Scotland to continue their development under the guidance of the Head of Scotland Age-Grade programme, Sean Lineen, who will continue in his part-time role with London Scottish.

The arrangements in place since January this year will now operate on a more modest and achievable scale better suited to the support available from London Scottish and will build on the success of the trial last season.

Sir David Reid, Chairman of London Scottish, commented: “We fully recognise that the concerns expressed by Scottish Rugby’s Board over the financial commitment and infrastructure needed from London Scottish under the previous arrangements were entirely legitimate.

“London Scottish will now take full financial responsibility for its areas identified in the partnership, which are designed to enhance the performance environment in which London Scottish players can train and prepare.”

Rod Lynch, President of the club, added: “We regret that our recent statements and media coverage of them may have cast a cloud over such an exciting opportunity and are grateful that Scottish Rugby was still willing to continue a dialogue with us. We are now looking to move this mutually beneficial opportunity forward and will provide young players with exposure to Championship rugby and its associated benefits.

“Championship Rugby is a challenging environment commercially and we acknowledge that the concerns Scottish Rugby’s Board voiced were valid. I am delighted we have now been able to address these.”

Mark Dodson, Chief Executive of Scottish Rugby, said: “We see this as a 12-month relationship at this time. We want to move this initiative forward to continue to give identified Scottish players the opportunity to develop into international players of the future.

“We had to satisfy ourselves that the club could deliver a performance environment suitable to enable talented young players to develop, before we committed further. We are pleased that the club has addressed our concerns and are now satisfied that the reduced scale of the programme matches the support the club can provide.”

Extraordinary level of brinksmanship.

[Big D]

. Scottish Rugby and London Scottish can confirm that a revised player development pathway will operate for the forthcoming season 2016/17.

Up to eight players will be seconded from Scotland to continue their development under the guidance of the Head of Scotland Age-Grade programme, Sean Lineen, who will continue in his part-time role with London Scottish.

The arrangements in place since January this year will now operate on a more modest and achievable scale better suited to the support available from London Scottish and will build on the success of the trial last season.

Sir David Reid, Chairman of London Scottish, commented: “We fully recognise that the concerns expressed by Scottish Rugby’s Board over the financial commitment and infrastructure needed from London Scottish under the previous arrangements were entirely legitimate.

“London Scottish will now take full financial responsibility for its areas identified in the partnership, which are designed to enhance the performance environment in which London Scottish players can train and prepare.”

Rod Lynch, President of the club, added: “We regret that our recent statements and media coverage of them may have cast a cloud over such an exciting opportunity and are grateful that Scottish Rugby was still willing to continue a dialogue with us. We are now looking to move this mutually beneficial opportunity forward and will provide young players with exposure to Championship rugby and its associated benefits.

“Championship Rugby is a challenging environment commercially and we acknowledge that the concerns Scottish Rugby’s Board voiced were valid. I am delighted we have now been able to address these.”

Mark Dodson, Chief Executive of Scottish Rugby, said: “We see this as a 12-month relationship at this time. We want to move this initiative forward to continue to give identified Scottish players the opportunity to develop into international players of the future.

“We had to satisfy ourselves that the club could deliver a performance environment suitable to enable talented young players to develop, before we committed further. We are pleased that the club has addressed our concerns and are now satisfied that the reduced scale of the programme matches the support the club can provide.”

Extraordinary level of brinksmanship.

The SRU always held the winning hand really. Sad that it had to become so public.

Assuming Robbins and Millar will still be heading down (and noting Shiels and Fergusson are LS signings rather than loans) I wonder who the other 6 will be? The balance needs to be right. Filling LS with young 'uns without senior players is dangerous.

I imagine Horne Jnr will be a prime candidate. Turner would be an option if both Ford and Rambo weren't Scotland players. Other possibilities:
A weeg hooker?
Kerr?
Matt Smith?
Galbraith?