America

[morepork]

What a mess. Word is that Bernie has it, but we'll have to wait. You can be sure that the big financial cowboys will be going hammer and tongs to stop him (or Warren) with some McCarthy-worthy scare tactics. Cue crying billionaires and developmentally challenged trust fund babies. The trickle down will be lavender scented shit that business owners and the next tier of wealth down that think they have a shot at failing up under this cowpat of a current government. There is a fairly comprehensive article in the NYT that shows just how deep the financial sector has it's claws embedded in the current administration. We are fucked.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/maga ... trump.html

[paddy no 11]

Have the dems rode Bernie again? Pete paid for the crooked app?

[Digby]

Have the dems rode Bernie again? Pete paid for the crooked app?

Seems unlikely given Buttigieg has consistently polled well in Iowa. If a similar result crops up in New Hampshire that'll not be a surprise either, but unless the polling shows a big shift (and it might if Buttigieg can gain name recognition, money and momentum) it'll be a big surprise if Bernie doesn't establish a lead after Super Tuesday given Bernie has very similar views to Warren and isn't a woman.

[Mikey Brown]

It may well be Buttigieg is just very popular there, yes, but there is something deeply dodgy about him and his motives in general. I can sort of see why people are jumping to some of these conspiracy theories.

Not convinced Warren actually believes many of the more progressive parts of what she claims either.

[Digby]

It may well be Buttigieg is just very popular there, yes, but there is something deeply dodgy about him and his motives in general. I can sort of see why people are jumping to some of these conspiracy theories.
.

Whilst confessing to not knowing a lot about his career as a mayor or former time in the military what exactly is deeply dodgy about the motives of Buttigieg? And how would such aspirations for power differ from other candidates?

[Banquo]

Democrats doing a cracking job of cementing Trump's voters; tearing up the SOTU speech is a hell of a statement, whether a productive one is unclear, could look at it both ways.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh god. Don't make me go and dig up sources and then have to fact-check them. That sounds like a massive pain in the arse.

To spin it another way Sanders strikes me as the only one (other than Tom Steyer, weirdly enough) who is totally sincere about his beliefs, with holding office being a necessary evil required to improve people's lives. Buttigieg just seems the farthest from that. I have no idea how anyone verifies this but it seems to be openly acknowledged he set his goal to become president when he was like 13 and will seemingly do a full 180 over literally anything in order to advance that goal. He just seems like a fucking weirdo. No, I don't have a citation for that.

I read a good rundown of Buttigieg a little while ago but I'm struggling to find it. This article touches on some of it but I can't say I have any idea who this author/publication are. https://www.newsweek.com/left-attacks-a ... ry-1477472

His ties to Shadow are at least a bit odd, right? I mean the whole game is filthy but he just seems particularly awful.

[Mikey Brown]

Democrats doing a cracking job of cementing Trump's voters; tearing up the SOTU speech is a hell of a statement, whether a productive one is unclear, could look at it both ways.

She's just loves posturing doesn't she.

[Digby]

Oh god. Don't make me go and dig up sources and then have to fact-check them. That sounds like a massive pain in the arse.

So Sanders good, all else bad?

I don't mind Bernie other than for me he's too old. Around 64 seems a cutoff to me for someone entering the race, and that if they're only seeking one term, else 60 is the cutoff. Even then they'd be 70 leaving office, and Bernie is already one heart attack into his death

[Mikey Brown]

It would be great if he was younger, yeah, but he seems like the only credible candidate even so. Most of the others are dead on the inside already anyway.

Warren is/was the next best, but not even much younger. Despite the Native American nonsense I thought she was a reasonably genuine character until she fell apart on health insurance and her daughter’s investment in that field etc. Her stunt with Bernie the sexist was a pretty clumsy bit of opportunism that I don’t think paid off.

[Digby]

Well it's a view. Why you think Bernie so much better than all the rest I don't know, certainly not to the extent the others are dead on the inside.

If I had to pick one it would be Buttigieg, but I'd take any of them over Trump, even the addle minded Biden

[Mikey Brown]

You said you don’t mind him other than being old, which I agree with. I think all the others are pretty flawed. I’m not sure what else you want me to say, without turning this in to a thread about why I don’t like Buttogieg.

Obviously any of them ahead of Trump is a positive, but they all seem to have pretty questionable investments/associates and I think at least trying to give a broad reaching healthcare program is worth a go.

I’m not suggesting I know everything about all the candidates, but am I missing something about Sanders that makes him equally unsuitable? (Despite you saying you don’t have an issue other than age?)

[Digby]

I don't have a problem with someone having and stating a preference for Sanders, it just seems a bit weird to me to look at the others and assume such appalling characteristics and motivations in people like Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg

[Son of Mathonwy]

What a mess. Word is that Bernie has it, but we'll have to wait. You can be sure that the big financial cowboys will be going hammer and tongs to stop him (or Warren) with some McCarthy-worthy scare tactics. Cue crying billionaires and developmentally challenged trust fund babies. The trickle down will be lavender scented shit that business owners and the next tier of wealth down that think they have a shot at failing up under this cowpat of a current government. There is a fairly comprehensive article in the NYT that shows just how deep the financial sector has it's claws embedded in the current administration. We are fucked.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/maga ... trump.html

Wish someone had the info to sum up all the money that genius businessman has burned and never repaid.

[Mikey Brown]

I don't have a problem with someone having and stating a preference for Sanders, it just seems a bit weird to me to look at the others and assume such appalling characteristics and motivations in people like Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg

Fair enough on Klobuchar. I wasn't particularly thinking of her and got the impression she is nowhere in terms of making an impression.

Not sure how much time to devote to explaining this Pete thing. But even today is a good example where he's posted about Trayvon Martin with the Blacklivesmatter tag, having previously been on the other side of this (defending the police and quoting "all lives matter" in response to police wearing 'breathe easy' t-shirts.) As with the Iowa situation he will seemingly claim victory, as a champion of minority or LGBTQ groups for instance, while there's many accounts of the reality being quite different. Obviously a lot of this only applies to his town, rather than on any national scale, because that's his only experience.


The disdain in "I'm not asking for your vote".

https://prospect.org/civil-rights/afric ... very-well/



Only yesterday I read an account from a black woman attending an event as a researcher who was then placed in the front row behind Buttigieg. Oddly enough enough stood next to only other black women.

Similarly his talk of being the only clean candidate, untainted or unswayed by dirty money doesn't seem to tally up. There's still the questions around his McKinsey background. I can't find anything about the more questionable parts of his military record that I'd heard.

Essentially I don't know. I could be wrong on all of this. I can't see inside his head, but I certainly wouldn't trust him if given a serious alternative. Trump is obviously not a serious alternative.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh. This too, which is obviously far, far worse than anything mentioned in the previous post.

[Digby]

So if I can find one POC who doesn't like Bernie I can refer to Bernie as being dead inside, and not in a way that refers to his heart attack?

[Mikey Brown]

Do whatever the fuck you like. What is it you actually want from this conversation? I hadn't realised any use of hyperbole at all was going to be such an issue for you.

If you equate his existing relationship with black voters to one POC not liking Bernie that's entirely your choice.

[Digby]

Do whatever the fuck you like. What is it you actually want from this conversation? I hadn't realised any use of hyperbole at all was going to be such an issue for you.

If you equate his existing relationship with black voters to one POC not liking Bernie that's entirely your choice.

You've noted Buttigieg as being dead on the inside, that there's something deeply dodgy about him on a personal level, that he lacks sincerity, he's a fucking weirdo, he's particularly awful, I'm not saying you're not allowed to use hyperbole it just seems a bit weird to take such a dislike to the chap.

- He seems calm, civil, intelligent and a reasonable candidate though I'm not going to be upset if people go another way even if I'd much rather Sanders and Warren were both 15-20 years younger.

[Mikey Brown]

I would be genuinely shocked if he has never strangled a cat to death. There. I said it.

[morepork]

Digby likes him a bit of mature, the dorty fecker.

[Digby]

Digby likes him a bit of mature, the dorty fecker.

What's the bar for mature?

[morepork]

Digby likes him a bit of mature, the dorty fecker.

What's the bar for mature?

Probably to prevent them slipping in the shower and breaking a hip.

[Digby]

Digby likes him a bit of mature, the dorty fecker.

What's the bar for mature?

Probably to prevent them slipping in the shower and breaking a hip.

Sounds like it could make them harder to catch

[Digby]

I would be genuinely shocked if he has never strangled a cat to death. There. I said it.

So you're saying he's a dog person? Actually as per that clip he does have a dog, a rescue dog.