Time to put Gatland, Howley et al out to grass

[UKHamlet]

The Dan Cole knock-on aside, we were never in it in the second half and looked entirely bereft of ideas. England, by contrast, stepped up a gear and won quite comfortably. The real difference was the direct running of England versus Wales' complete and utter lack of focus. We didn't seem to know what to do with the ball. The thing is, this isn't a new thing, it has characterised our play for a while now.

We will get absolutely laced in New Zealand. After that, we really have to look at the coaching team, because in all honesty, they've taken us as far as they can take us.

[morepork]

Your boys just refuse to factor in outside backs.

[Sandydragon]

That was dire.

A good start and I thought we were in for a good afternoon. England then woke up and looked dangerous, but the first half was competitive. That try set up by Coles deliberate knock on seemed to knock some of the stuffing out of us, but I agree with hammy, we looked too static. Our defence at times was half hearted but in attack, we looked clueless far too often.

But it's hard to put too much blame on the backs when the forwards turnover the ball constantly. Poor line outs an turnovers for mauls lost us the ball far too often. You can't play without the basics and despite some desperation fromAmos, Anscombe, Liam and Priestland, you can win if your forwards are getting stuffed.

We need some fresh impetus. I predict that we will come a very second best in our forthcoming tour and frankly we need a shake up.

[Ross. S]

Gats has had his eye on the Lions & NZ job since 2012, time to go now.

The Wales based players have had 3 weeks since their last game WTF have they been doing? Attack non existant, Defense shite, Set piece bahaha, remember 08-12 when the welsh scrum was one of if not the best in the world, besting Eng, France, NZ, SA & Ire? Dafuq has gone wrong?

Wales looked like we've spent the last 3 weeks in the gym or under a sun bed. Someone shouls try to introduce them to a rugby ball at least a week before a game, you never know what may happen.

[Mikeyv]

Look at the quality of the league they play in.

The Ospreys have the lions share of centrally contracted players, and look how their season went.

Should anybody be surprised that Wales are going backwards?

That said, a coaching/management shake up might not be a bad thing.

[glamorganmorgan]

I listened on the radio, and the commentators were saying that with 20 minutes to go, Wales looked shattered to a man.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I listened on the radio, and the commentators were saying that with 20 minutes to go, Wales looked shattered to a man.

So that's why there was no sign of our customary last 10 minutes fightback...

We looked generally clueless in the second half, actually for something like 60 minutes really. Only Ford's woeful kicking kept us ahead in the first half. Our defence was awful (is this poor execution, or is Edwards to blame?), as was almost everything we did. Ball in hand we had no ideas either. They seemed bigger and stronger than us, whether we were trying to get through them or them through us. We had the edge at the beginning, but I'm not sure if we dropped off the pace after 20 minutes, or they stepped it up. Did losing Lydiate early make a difference? Ford's misses kept us in touch, but no late flurry of tries came to save us this time.

Perhaps Lydiate (lost after 23 minutes), Warburton and Charteris (& the customary last 20 minutes of Tipuric) would have made a noticeable difference for us. but mostly we just seemed clueless. New coaches please (at least some new coaches!).

One positive - the personal tragedy that was Ford's goal-kicking should ensure that Farrell is nailed on for England for the foreseeable.

As for Cole's "knock-on", surely it went backwards so it wasn't a knock-on....?

[glamorganmorgan]

Highlights are on at 7pm on BBC 2. can i bear to watch it? perhaps i'll put it on and go into the other room

[MrK]

His time had come and gone a while back, but we are stuck with him.

His selections continue to bemuse, Rhodri Jones FFS, His continued love in with Baldwin if he hasnt seen he a flat track bully by now I dont know what hes been watching, No openside.

We arent in Englands shoes with the depth of talent we have, but no Owens today, Rhodri Jones picked over ...well anyone, No openside cover when two of the regions best 7s this year have been Jenkins and Cubby, hes backed himself into a corner with Warburton, who in fairness has played well enough when hes been fit, Lydiate has done nothing worthy of keeping his place for a long time now, against SH teams he is nowehere to be seen.

As soon as this disaster of a tour is done with we need to start building and we need some new ideas.

Exactly how we do that though given our playing pool and coaches I dont know. Bleak times ahead.

[Son of Mathonwy]

And I have to say the second half seemed like a return to the 90s for us.

[Sandydragon]

I listened on the radio, and the commentators were saying that with 20 minutes to go, Wales looked shattered to a man.

So that's why there was no sign of our customary last 10 minutes fightback...

We looked generally clueless in the second half, actually for something like 60 minutes really. Only Ford's woeful kicking kept us ahead in the first half. Our defence was awful (is this poor execution, or is Edwards to blame?), as was almost everything we did. Ball in hand we had no ideas either. They seemed bigger and stronger than us, whether we were trying to get through them or them through us. We had the edge at the beginning, but I'm not sure if we dropped off the pace after 20 minutes, or they stepped it up. Did losing Lydiate early make a difference? Ford's misses kept us in touch, but no late flurry of tries came to save us this time.

Perhaps Lydiate (lost after 23 minutes), Warburton and Charteris (& the customary last 20 minutes of Tipuric) would have made a noticeable difference for us. but mostly we just seemed clueless. New coaches please (at least some new coaches!).

One positive - the personal tragedy that was Ford's goal-kicking should ensure that Farrell is nailed on for England for the foreseeable.

As for Cole's "knock-on", surely it went backwards so it wasn't a knock-on....?

It looked like a one handed attempt at knocking the ball down to me, so penalty Wales. Even the English players had headed back ready for a scrum at least. I don't think anyone expected that try to be given. Sadly, the stripy Biggar of old appeared at that point which didn't help us.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I listened on the radio, and the commentators were saying that with 20 minutes to go, Wales looked shattered to a man.

So that's why there was no sign of our customary last 10 minutes fightback...

We looked generally clueless in the second half, actually for something like 60 minutes really. Only Ford's woeful kicking kept us ahead in the first half. Our defence was awful (is this poor execution, or is Edwards to blame?), as was almost everything we did. Ball in hand we had no ideas either. They seemed bigger and stronger than us, whether we were trying to get through them or them through us. We had the edge at the beginning, but I'm not sure if we dropped off the pace after 20 minutes, or they stepped it up. Did losing Lydiate early make a difference? Ford's misses kept us in touch, but no late flurry of tries came to save us this time.

Perhaps Lydiate (lost after 23 minutes), Warburton and Charteris (& the customary last 20 minutes of Tipuric) would have made a noticeable difference for us. but mostly we just seemed clueless. New coaches please (at least some new coaches!).

One positive - the personal tragedy that was Ford's goal-kicking should ensure that Farrell is nailed on for England for the foreseeable.

As for Cole's "knock-on", surely it went backwards so it wasn't a knock-on....?

It looked like a one handed attempt at knocking the ball down to me, so penalty Wales. Even the English players had headed back ready for a scrum at least. I don't think anyone expected that try to be given. Sadly, the stripy Biggar of old appeared at that point which didn't help us.

Is this in the laws? If the ball goes forward I agree - it's an intentional knock-on. But if it goes backwards, what's the problem - what law is being broken?

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Look at the quality of the league they play in.

The Ospreys have the lions share of centrally contracted players, and look how their season went.

Should anybody be surprised that Wales are going backwards?

That said, a coaching/management shake up might not be a bad thing.

The quality of the league? there's not much we can do to give your boys a chance. You've got the Italians to beat. What more do you want?

[Lord Llandaff]

That must be the most pathetic display since the 2007 RWC. Time for a new Inside Centre, among other things...preferably one who can pass.

They looked like they were "already on the beach". Unfortunately the next destination is NZ.

Thankfully, the games are on Sky...

[Sandydragon]

That must be the most pathetic display since the 2007 RWC. Time for a new Inside Centre, among other things...preferably one who can pass.

They looked like they were "already on the beach". Unfortunately the next destination is NZ.

Thankfully, the games are on Sky...

Roberts ran some nice lines, but I think we need to look at other options there. There's too ,uch reliance placed on one player.

But no inside centre in the world is going to win the game when the forwards can hold onto the ball. Far too many turnovers and general sloppy execution.

[Sandydragon]

So that's why there was no sign of our customary last 10 minutes fightback...

We looked generally clueless in the second half, actually for something like 60 minutes really. Only Ford's woeful kicking kept us ahead in the first half. Our defence was awful (is this poor execution, or is Edwards to blame?), as was almost everything we did. Ball in hand we had no ideas either. They seemed bigger and stronger than us, whether we were trying to get through them or them through us. We had the edge at the beginning, but I'm not sure if we dropped off the pace after 20 minutes, or they stepped it up. Did losing Lydiate early make a difference? Ford's misses kept us in touch, but no late flurry of tries came to save us this time.

Perhaps Lydiate (lost after 23 minutes), Warburton and Charteris (& the customary last 20 minutes of Tipuric) would have made a noticeable difference for us. but mostly we just seemed clueless. New coaches please (at least some new coaches!).

One positive - the personal tragedy that was Ford's goal-kicking should ensure that Farrell is nailed on for England for the foreseeable.

As for Cole's "knock-on", surely it went backwards so it wasn't a knock-on....?

It looked like a one handed attempt at knocking the ball down to me, so penalty Wales. Even the English players had headed back ready for a scrum at least. I don't think anyone expected that try to be given. Sadly, the stripy Biggar of old appeared at that point which didn't help us.

Is this in the laws? If the ball goes forward I agree - it's an intentional knock-on. But if it goes backwards, what's the problem - what law is being broken?

I've just been looking at th replays on BBC. The bal appears to travel forward off Coles hand, then hit Moriarty who nudges it forward off his chest.

I think it was a knock on, and as Cole only uses one hand, it's a penalty. It's notable that every player was in the middle of the pitch waiting for a scrum or penalty and even the ref looked connfused.

I don't think we would have won the game without that try. The previous English try was embarrassing defending. But it certainly rattled a few of our players, especially Biggar.

[Son of Mathonwy]

It looked like a one handed attempt at knocking the ball down to me, so penalty Wales. Even the English players had headed back ready for a scrum at least. I don't think anyone expected that try to be given. Sadly, the stripy Biggar of old appeared at that point which didn't help us.

Is this in the laws? If the ball goes forward I agree - it's an intentional knock-on. But if it goes backwards, what's the problem - what law is being broken?

I've just been looking at th replays on BBC. The bal appears to travel forward off Coles hand, then hit Moriarty who nudges it forward off his chest.

I think it was a knock on, and as Cole only uses one hand, it's a penalty. It's notable that every player was in the middle of the pitch waiting for a scrum or penalty and even the ref looked connfused.

I don't think we would have won the game without that try. The previous English try was embarrassing defending. But it certainly rattled a few of our players, especially Biggar.

If it went forward, then I agree. I can't stand to see another minute of that match, so I'll take your word for it.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Look at the quality of the league they play in.

The Ospreys have the lions share of centrally contracted players, and look how their season went.

Should anybody be surprised that Wales are going backwards?

That said, a coaching/management shake up might not be a bad thing.

The quality of the league? there's not much we can do to give your boys a chance. You've got the Italians to beat. What more do you want?

Agreed. If we were top of the league there would be a point, but it ain't the case.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

For what its worth, I think you should have got rid years ago. Only a win in NZ would convince me otherwise.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Don't worry guys: Gatland sees positives:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36409756

"We have to work on our consistency and intensity in training because when you play against a team like the All Blacks and they just keep coming at you for the whole 80 minutes," he said.
"We're pleased to get the game under our belts and there is plenty for us to work on.
"It's not anything that's un-fixable. We have to take the positives out of today.
"I put a lot to it down to players just haven't played at this level for a long time."

So how the hell did England manage to function, also having not "played at this level for a long time"? Jeez. Perhaps there is something lacking in the Welsh training programme which consistently sees them looking more rusty than their opponents in the first game??

Struggling to see positives myself.

[Mikeyv]

Look at the quality of the league they play in.

The Ospreys have the lions share of centrally contracted players, and look how their season went.

Should anybody be surprised that Wales are going backwards?

That said, a coaching/management shake up might not be a bad thing.

The quality of the league? there's not much we can do to give your boys a chance. You've got the Italians to beat. What more do you want?

Agreed. If we were top of the league there would be a point, but it ain't the case.

My point was, it's a shit league, yet Ospreys the team with the most team Wales players, couldn't even finish in the top 6, so should be no surprise that team Wales aren't doing well.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The quality of the league? there's not much we can do to give your boys a chance. You've got the Italians to beat. What more do you want?

Agreed. If we were top of the league there would be a point, but it ain't the case.

My point was, it's a shit league, yet Ospreys the team with the most team Wales players, couldn't even finish in the top 6, so should be no surprise that team Wales aren't doing well.

I see what you mean. The problem with that argument is that in a world cup year the team with the most team Wales players is missing those players for a significant time. This makes it difficult to draw your conclusion. I'm sure the Ospreys will do a lot better next year.

[Sandydragon]

Train with greater urgency? What the hell have they been doing the last few weeks?


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[Billyfish]

Odd dominant first quarter. Then we started falling off tackles/half-hearted tackling and never really had any control or accuracy again. If we can't pull it together against inferior opposition then we've no business going to NZ. Gatland's departure well overdue.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

The quality of the league? there's not much we can do to give your boys a chance. You've got the Italians to beat. What more do you want?

Agreed. If we were top of the league there would be a point, but it ain't the case.

My point was, it's a shit league, yet Ospreys the team with the most team Wales players, couldn't even finish in the top 6, so should be no surprise that team Wales aren't doing well.

I've never understood this "it's a shit league" mantra that gets trotted out. Can you explain to me what makes it shit?