Citings - So how long will Joe be on extended leave then?

[Mikey Brown]

Only just seen the Parkes tackle. I wasn't expecting it to be such a clear red as this.

[Puja]

Only just seen the Parkes tackle. I wasn't expecting it to be such a clear red as this.

Nor I. That really is blatant, isn't it?

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

AWJ with an irritatingly perfect response to the situation here.

[Freddo]

AWJ saying you can't talk to the referees any more. He never fucking stops!

[Oakboy]

AWJ saying you can't talk to the referees any more. He never fucking stops!

Quite. I ought to hate the bloke but, for some weird reason, I quite like him. Good player, of course, in his day.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'm really not sure where I stand on this one. But it won't be alongside the internet hard-men looking to show how toxicly masculine they are.

On the one hand, it was clearly intended as a joke; and was clearly the equivalent of a friendly punch on the arm, as opposed to the Tyson-Roundhouse that some are equating it to.
On the other hand, it wasn't funny, but was badly misjudged.
It's technically sexual assault in the post #MeToo era, even though it wasn't for the purpose of sexual gratification, degradation or control.
Finally, this happened in a televised match, with dozens of cameras; and the rugby worlds second most prestigious event.

Those "mitigations" also end up not mattering one jot. "It's just a joke" "intent" "purpose" only matter if everyone involved thinks of it that way - otherwise it's bullying / assault.

He absolutely deserves a ban - for sheer dumb stupidity if nothing else. I simply don't know how much of a ban "feels" right. 12 weeks seems unproportionately harsh for something that so clearly WAS intended in jest. On the other hand, sexual assault is a erm... dodgy area to jest in, whilst rugby laws don't really differentiate between "done in jest" and "done with malicious intent".
It could viably be seen as anything from "a joke between Lions team mates" to "sexual assault". One requires a slap on the wrist for misjudging the timing / publicity; the other deserves a custodial sentence and his name on a register. Neither seems "right"

Ultimately, I guess I'll judge my outrage by AWJ's reaction

I'd say that it was degradation. It was intended to humiliate and embarrass as most bum pinching and the like is. It's also likely to be a source of embarrassment for pretty much all of recorded time. 12 weeks does not seem massively excessive, though it's out of kilter with the rather pathetic bans that get handed out for outright violence.

[oldbackrow]

I'd say that it was degradation. It was intended to humiliate and embarrass as most bum pinching and the like is. It's also likely to be a source of embarrassment for pretty much all of recorded time. 12 weeks does not seem massively excessive, though it's out of kilter with the rather pathetic bans that get handed out for outright violence.

Agreed about the bans and would add the lack of any action over Parkes tackle, the upending of Curry, Williams taking of Dalys arm when jumping for a ball and Ryans Exocet entries to the rucks in the Eng v Ire game.

Its a pity that AWJ didn't just tell Marler to stop being a tit and pushed his hand away (difficult I know when you have your forearm across his neck!) rather than just standing there appealing to the TJ and ref. After all they know each other well enough!

[p/d]

Only just seen the Parkes tackle. I wasn't expecting it to be such a clear red as this.

Don't think that was a red for Parkes (Manu definitely dips and angles into him), however Williams 'swinging arm'' should have been looked at

[Mr Mwenda]

The fact that Tuilagi was all smiles after Parkes hit gim probably affected how the tackle was interpreted. Looks like a red to me still.

[Beasties]

Manu's running at a pretty standard height and angle in that clip. No excuse whatsoever.

[Mikey Brown]

Yep.

Weirdly enough, I think while Lawes and Tuilagi are both a bit reckless they are at least understandable as they are aiming their hit in the logical place but misjudge it as the carrier is moving their head.

Parkes goes way too high, Williams is just dumb, but both get lucky there is no harm done so don’t become issues.

Feels good to be disagreeing with the Welsh on everything again.

[Oakboy]

Do we all think that having SH refs in the 6N has been a success? Are we getting the best ones? If so, that might be worrying.

[fivepointer]

Yes it's good that their refs come here and ours go to the SH to take games. And yes we do get their best ones. I think Barnes and Owens are head and shoulders above all the other refs, but outside of that I dont think there's much between the top ones from both hemispheres.

[Peej]

Does anyone have a clip of the Lawes one? I completely missed it

[Puja]

Does anyone have a clip of the Lawes one? I completely missed it

Your wish:



Puja

[p/d]

Didn't look too bad, well not compared to the play by Youngs and Daly from the resulting line out.................... and how crooked was the Welsh throw.

[Spiffy]

I'm really not sure where I stand on this one. But it won't be alongside the internet hard-men looking to show how toxicly masculine they are.

On the one hand, it was clearly intended as a joke; and was clearly the equivalent of a friendly punch on the arm, as opposed to the Tyson-Roundhouse that some are equating it to.
On the other hand, it wasn't funny, but was badly misjudged.
It's technically sexual assault in the post #MeToo era, even though it wasn't for the purpose of sexual gratification, degradation or control.
Finally, this happened in a televised match, with dozens of cameras; and the rugby worlds second most prestigious event.

Those "mitigations" also end up not mattering one jot. "It's just a joke" "intent" "purpose" only matter if everyone involved thinks of it that way - otherwise it's bullying / assault.

He absolutely deserves a ban - for sheer dumb stupidity if nothing else. I simply don't know how much of a ban "feels" right. 12 weeks seems unproportionately harsh for something that so clearly WAS intended in jest. On the other hand, sexual assault is a erm... dodgy area to jest in, whilst rugby laws don't really differentiate between "done in jest" and "done with malicious intent".
It could viably be seen as anything from "a joke between Lions team mates" to "sexual assault". One requires a slap on the wrist for misjudging the timing / publicity; the other deserves a custodial sentence and his name on a register. Neither seems "right"

Ultimately, I guess I'll judge my outrage by AWJ's reaction

I'd say that it was degradation. It was intended to humiliate and embarrass as most bum pinching and the like is. It's also likely to be a source of embarrassment for pretty much all of recorded time. 12 weeks does not seem massively excessive, though it's out of kilter with the rather pathetic bans that get handed out for outright violence.

Agree with this. I think actions like Marler's belong in a different category and should not be compared with those involving violence. I don't have much sympathy for him. Fair play to Wynn Jones for not rising to the bait and knocking his block off. A tough sentence is required here to set the bar, or else every smart-arse, jack-the-lad will be at it.

[p/d]

'Fair play to Wynn Jones for not rising'

I know, childish but................

[oldbackrow]

A bit of a rant I know and apologise in advance!
I realise how much of a dinosaur I am but I played a game which was steeped in a ribald sense of humour, both on and off the pitch, childish antics on tour and inappropriate songs like Good Ship Venus, Eskimo Nell and hand gestures and word changes to everything from nursery rhymes to hymns!
Now it's a professional game where grown adults, who are highly trained muscular athletes, smash into each other for 80 minutes.
The outcry from social media the press and even AWJ over Marlers antics makes me despair at what society sees as acceptable. Much as I find any form of degradation (coming from an Anglo Carribean heritage this is all a shame really. Oh well life moves on.
Rant over.

[Timbo]

In the latest England ‘Next Level’ mini documentary thing they do on social media, can clearly see Nick Tompkins give Mark Itoje a little (playful) tap on the nuts as the Welsh walk through the guard of honour at the end.

Citing?

[Spiffy]

A bit of a rant I know and apologise in advance!
I realise how much of a dinosaur I am but I played a game which was steeped in a ribald sense of humour, both on and off the pitch, childish antics on tour and inappropriate songs like Good Ship Venus, Eskimo Nell and hand gestures and word changes to everything from nursery rhymes to hymns!
Now it's a professional game where grown adults, who are highly trained muscular athletes, smash into each other for 80 minutes.
The outcry from social media the press and even AWJ over Marlers antics makes me despair at what society sees as acceptable. Much as I find any form of degradation (coming from an Anglo Carribean heritage this is all a shame really. Oh well life moves on.
Rant over.

Quick somebody -- grab his bollocks and give the oul fella a nostalgia trip!

[Numbers]

10 weeks for Marler and 4 weeks for Tuilagi, no news on Lawes yet.

[Scrumhead]

Lawes is off without punishment.

10wks is pretty harsh IMO, but at least it’s not the lifetime ban or some of the other insane $hit I’ve seen flying around.

[Sandydragon]

Lawes is off without punishment.

10wks is pretty harsh IMO, but at least it’s not the lifetime ban or some of the other insane $hit I’ve seen flying around.

Entry level was 12 weeks. Knocked a bit off for the fairly minor nature of it and a week back on for previous record.

Compared to a very solid punch to the face it looks disproportionate. Then again, I can see how its also appropriate.

[oldbackrow]

Lawes is off without punishment.

10wks is pretty harsh IMO, but at least it’s not the lifetime ban or some of the other insane $hit I’ve seen flying around.

Entry level was 12 weeks. Knocked a bit off for the fairly minor nature of it and a week back on for previous record.

Compared to a very solid punch to the face it looks disproportionate. Then again, I can see how its also appropriate.

Seems a bit disproportionate to a 3 week ban for stamping on someone's head that the South African got.