Italy vs England and 6N permutations

[Puja]

By my reckoning, today puts Ireland on 38 points difference, compared to England on 15 and France on 13. If Ireland win with a bonus point against France, they get the title. If no bonus point, they will have to score enough against France to keep within 23 points of England's points difference over Italy (assuming England get a bonus point). France can only win by scoring more match points against Ireland than England do against Italy or having a bigger points difference over Ireland than England do over Italy.

Basically, let's cheer for the French next week to get the title. That last minute penalty against France to get us back within 7 points looks like it could be crucial.

Puja

[Digby]

Where would we be without the gimmicky bonus points which so far have delivered almost nothing as regards a more open/attacking approach in the 6N

[Scrumhead]

Based upon what I saw today, the break hasn’t done Italy any favours. They were badly flagging at the end of the game. I would be very disappointed if we come away with anything other than a bonus point win and a healthy points difference.

Ireland are certainly capable of beating France, but I would not expect it to be by much. Italy’s two tries today could do us a favour if that happens.

That said, if France can show anything like the form they were in earlier in the year, I’d make them slight favourites to beat the Irish, which should give us the title. Allez les bleu.

[Peej]

Haven't Italian teams played a couple rounds of Pro14?

[Mellsblue]

Where would we be without the gimmicky bonus points which so far have delivered almost nothing as regards a more open/attacking approach in the 6N

Off the top of my head, we’d be somewhere with one less thing for you to moan about.

[Digby]

Where would we be without the gimmicky bonus points which so far have delivered almost nothing as regards a more open/attacking approach in the 6N

Off the top of my head, we’d be somewhere with one less thing for you to moan about.

Instantly such an assertion would add 2 if not 3 things to a list of things to find fault in without ever proffering a better idea.

[Scrumhead]

Haven't Italian teams played a couple rounds of Pro14?

Yes, but only very recently.

France were impressive against Wales. If they play like that next week, they should beat Ireland.

Ireland made fairly hard work of beating a poor Italy team until the last quarter of their game. France comfortably beat a strong Wales side.

[Gloskarlos]

I’d give a lot for an English version of DuPont. How good was he tonight? Just awesome.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. Really, really good player. Certainly the best 9 in the NH right now.

[Spiffy]

I’d give a lot for an English version of DuPont. How good was he tonight? Just awesome.

Ntamack is pretty awesome for a 21 year old FH too. He has the complete game and oozes self confidence. Quite a tough little nut too.

[francoisfou]

I’d give a lot for an English version of DuPont. How good was he tonight? Just awesome.

Ntamack is pretty awesome for a 21 year old FH too. He has the complete game and oozes self confidence. Quite a tough little nut too.

If France can build their team around these half backs, it'll be formidable come the next World Cup in France in 2023. Can't wait!

[fivepointer]

France looked fantastic at times last night. After a poor opening 10 minutes they bossed the game. The young half backs are terrific.
Based on the games over the last couple of days you would have to say France look very strong and should beat Ireland. I'd be very surprised if Ireland win in Paris and a BP seems a very tall order.
Wales v Scotland could be a close run thing.
I'm afraid Italy look to be going nowhere. They are a team in desperate need of 5 or 6 true international quality players. England should beat them comfortably next weekend.
After that we've got Georgia, who seem to have stalled in their progress and look a very limited side.

[loudnconfident]

I'm afraid Italy look to be going nowhere. They are a team in desperate need of 5 or 6 true international quality players. England should beat them comfortably next weekend.
After that we've got Georgia, who seem to have stalled in their progress and look a very limited side.

I just hope we are prepared enough for a points haul in Rome next Saturday. The cancelled BaaBaas game could cost us.

wrt Italy/Georgia, it must be time for a -second-tier European Nations league, with promotion to/from the 6N.

When was it that Italy stood off the maul at Twickers? That was damage limitation. I remember thinking Id have been p*ssed off if Id paid to attend the match - and Georgia would have given us a game at least. That match, and subsequent results, shows Italy need a season or two in a lower division

[Scrumhead]

There’s a chance we could be undercooked, but unless the Italians make a massive leap in performance from one week to the next, I would expect a bonus point win. Ireland comfortably dispatched them in second gear and if we’re unable to score four tries against them, we have bigger problems to solve.

As long as we get the BP win, we should be fine.

Based upon the games I saw yesterday, I’d expect France to beat Ireland. Even if Ireland do win, I don’t see any way they do it with a BP/big enough PD.

[Oakboy]

I'm afraid Italy look to be going nowhere. They are a team in desperate need of 5 or 6 true international quality players. England should beat them comfortably next weekend.
After that we've got Georgia, who seem to have stalled in their progress and look a very limited side.

I just hope we are prepared enough for a points haul in Rome next Saturday. The cancelled BaaBaas game could cost us.

wrt Italy/Georgia, it must be time for a -second-tier European Nations league, with promotion to/from the 6N.

When was it that Italy stood off the maul at Twickers? That was damage limitation. I remember thinking Id have been p*ssed off if Id paid to attend the match - and Georgia would have given us a game at least. That match, and subsequent results, shows Italy need a season or two in a lower division

A 5N with no gap weeks makes a lot of sense, IMO. The big snag with it is that none of the five might deserve relegation. A home-and-away play-off with the bottom country playing the top country of Tier 2?

[Scrumhead]

But first priority is a roof!

[Oakboy]

There’s a chance we could be undercooked, but unless the Italians make a massive leap in performance from one week to the next, I would expect a bonus point win. Ireland comfortably dispatched them in second gear and if we’re unable to score four tries against them, we have bigger problems to solve.

As long as we get the BP win, we should be fine.

Based upon the games I saw yesterday, I’d expect France to beat Ireland. Even if Ireland do win, I don’t see any way they do it with a BP/big enough PD.

Has there been any indication that Jones will consider Exeter/Wasps players?

[Oakboy]

But first priority is a roof!

Ah, you may be happy that Wales leads the world. All my early match attendance of international rugby was at Arms Park with a Welsh neighbour who could get tickets at will. He still crows about the Millenium Stadium leading the way.

[Scrumhead]

There’s a chance we could be undercooked, but unless the Italians make a massive leap in performance from one week to the next, I would expect a bonus point win. Ireland comfortably dispatched them in second gear and if we’re unable to score four tries against them, we have bigger problems to solve.

As long as we get the BP win, we should be fine.

Based upon the games I saw yesterday, I’d expect France to beat Ireland. Even if Ireland do win, I don’t see any way they do it with a BP/big enough PD.

Has there been any indication that Jones will consider Exeter/Wasps players?

No. But the only reason for not doing so would be the limited time to integrate them in to training. I’d expect a bunch of them to be included tomorrow, although Nowell may not be involved following the news about his toe ligaments.

[Scrumhead]

But first priority is a roof!

Ah, you may be happy that Wales leads the world. All my early match attendance of international rugby was at Arms Park with a Welsh neighbour who could get tickets at will. He still crows about the Millenium Stadium leading the way.

They can have their roof. As long as they’re never leading the world in rugby, I’m OK for them to have the odd triumph.

[Timbo]

The pack and forwards on the bench will be very strong, but if Ford and Daly are out the back line will be an interesting selection. Wonder if he’ll bring in the two Ollie’s (Lawrence and Thorley) for debuts. Can you pair Slade and Joseph together in the centres?

Tuilagi masks lots of our midfield/backline issues, but we have the talent to find solutions. Just needs to be pieced together.

[Scrumhead]

I’m not sure Manu is as influential as you’re saying. I’m actually more concerned about Farrell being at 10 limiting our attack more than anything else.

I think Lawrence will get a debut. Not sure what we’ll do in the back three. I’d like to think it’s an ideal opportunity for Malins to come in at 15, but I’d be happy enough with Watson switching to 15 and Thorley coming in on the wing. Although, I suspect Daly’s niggle might have just opened the door for Furbank again, form be damned.

[Stom]

Aye, I'd love to see Malins at 15. And blood Willis, maybe off the bench.

I'd also really like to see Marchant, but I can't imagine too many changes.

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, JHill
Curry, Billy, Underhill
Youngs, Farrell
May, ?, Slade, Watson
Malins

LCD, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Willis, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Or maybe start Simmonds alongside Farrell and put Laurence or Marchant on the bench.

[Timbo]

Aye, I'd love to see Malins at 15. And blood Willis, maybe off the bench.

I'd also really like to see Marchant, but I can't imagine too many changes.

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, JHill
Curry, Billy, Underhill
Youngs, Farrell
May, ?, Slade, Watson
Malins

LCD, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Willis, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Or maybe start Simmonds alongside Farrell and put Laurence or Marchant on the bench.

I can’t imagine Jonny Hill or Willis will be involved given their lack of time in the squad. Particularly Hill will need some time to learn lineout calls and moves.

[Timbo]

I’m not sure Manu is as influential as you’re saying.

Without Manu we can definitely be too passive and lateral in our backline. Even when he doesn’t get the ball his threat creates space for others.

But we do have a lot of carriers in the pack, so if we’re smart we can get by fine I think.