Italy vs England and 6N permutations

[Banquo]

That's a nice side. I'd be tempted to start Launchbury and alter the bench a smidge in the backs. The centres are the right way round for me. Lawrence's style is more fitting to being able to naturally switch in one than Slade.

Imo too many changes if Faz goes off.

Not if the bench backs were altered i.e. to pick Umaga on there. Otherwise Slade to 10, Marchant to 13 in more extremis.

That was my point re the bench, I’d assumed you were including them. I’d assumed Malins to 10 and a back 3 shuffle, but neither he nor Slade have much recent time at 10.

[Banquo]

I'd pick Launchbury, he was just brilliant in the final and was well clear of Hill besides

Well apart from his captaincy and lineout, I agree. Didn’t watch the restarts closely tho.

Is the captaincy issue the failure to kick for 3? I didn't mind that call in those conditions. He's not brilliant at the lineout (or restart) but that failed lineout must have had multiple things go wrong not to just hit Gaskell at the front, that was so bad I wonder if the call was to the front but with the marking some gave a non verbal signal to go long and.... actually I don't know, that was just a car crash moment

But he was miles clear of Hill in the game over all, and I put Hill in my team of the season, so QED Launch is amazing

Captaincy fail on the 3 (given the lineout fail all game- also linked to his own relative weakness there- Hill won that one), and then having called it, a difficult throw being allowed or called by him. Looked like it was intended for 6, which in those conditions with a young wobbly hooker was mad.
His mauling and defence were immense, but I’d worry about our lineout if both he and Billy were in a side against one possessing a good lineout.

[Mr Mwenda]

There'll be plenty of changes over the autumn but that article someone shared made the point that continuity is key. Sounds like it's harsh on Simmonds but parachuting someone in cold is a recipe for disaster. England need a big win next week after all.

So a no matches Faz and Umaga are a better bet?

Surely you can see that both have had more time in the squad. I know I first played 10 with no notice and was fine but I reckon international rugby is different from Lewes 2s away to Eastbourne...

I don't get the vitriol. I'm sure Simmonds will get a look in at some point.

[Banquo]

There'll be plenty of changes over the autumn but that article someone shared made the point that continuity is key. Sounds like it's harsh on Simmonds but parachuting someone in cold is a recipe for disaster. England need a big win next week after all.

So a no matches Faz and Umaga are a better bet?

Surely you can see that both have had more time in the squad. I know I first played 10 with no notice and was fine but I reckon international rugby is different from Lewes 2s away to Eastbourne...

I don't get the vitriol. I'm sure Simmonds will get a look in at some point.

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

[Scrumhead]

Banquo you need to keep that vitriol in check ... running out of control with this much controversy ...

I get why Sam Simmonds isn’t there, but the lack of interest in Joe confuses me. I would have thought he’d be exactly the kind of 10 Eddie likes from the POV that he will follow a game plan to the absolute letter, but also has the skill set to play off the cuff when it’s on/knows when to change the plan.

I can just about buy the argument that playing in a dominant team means he mostly has an armchair ride, but that point of debate has surely been put to bed over the past few weeks. Major finals bring major pressure and Racing and Wasps ran Exeter very close. Not to mention Baxter entrusting him with the captaincy.

Umaga clearly has talent, but benefits massively from Gopperth’s eyes and experience.

If Farrell were to go down injured, I know who I’d prefer to have on my bench and it’s not Jacob.

[Digby]

A talented 10 with captaincy credentials, who could have possibly lobbied against that?

[Mr Mwenda]

So a no matches Faz and Umaga are a better bet?

Surely you can see that both have had more time in the squad. I know I first played 10 with no notice and was fine but I reckon international rugby is different from Lewes 2s away to Eastbourne...

I don't get the vitriol. I'm sure Simmonds will get a look in at some point.

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

[Banquo]

Surely you can see that both have had more time in the squad. I know I first played 10 with no notice and was fine but I reckon international rugby is different from Lewes 2s away to Eastbourne...

I don't get the vitriol. I'm sure Simmonds will get a look in at some point.

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

Think I said I was quite happy with the squad bar Heinz, but puzzled over what Simmonds needed to do to get a sniff.

Umaga has been around the squad as an apprentice, but not in the last couple of squads, so imo no meaningful ‘edge’.

[Banquo]

A talented 10 with captaincy credentials, who could have possibly lobbied against that?

Aye

[Raggs]

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

Think I said I was quite happy with the squad bar Heinz, but puzzled over what Simmonds needed to do to get a sniff.

Umaga has been around the squad as an apprentice, but not in the last couple of squads, so imo no meaningful ‘edge’.

Umaga was in the squad, not as an apprentice, for the 6N earlier in the year. Before that was the world cup.

[FKAS]

Surely you can see that both have had more time in the squad. I know I first played 10 with no notice and was fine but I reckon international rugby is different from Lewes 2s away to Eastbourne...

I don't get the vitriol. I'm sure Simmonds will get a look in at some point.

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

I think he's the weakest of the five English flyhalfs in consideration (Ford, Farrell, Simmonds, Smith, Umaga). He relies heavily on Gopperth at 12 and is more than a bit flakey. He's got masses of potential and I can understand Eddie wanting to get him into the squad to oversee part of his development. Plus getting him a cap now would stop attentions from elsewhere coming later (particularly from Samoa). If Farrell limps off early Vs a decent side would you have confidence in Umaga coming on and running the show? I would not though against Italy I'm sure he'll be fine and his attacking skill set will create plenty of opportunities.

[Tom Moore]

Born in Halifax, and without doubt they play funny rugby in Halifax.

His dad was playing League there at the time. Good player.

Lol, I wasn’t being serious but Jesus, it’s all true, isn’t it...

It surprises me on that basis that we haven't seen more of Zac Mercer.

[Mellsblue]

The plot thickens..... Jones thinks Furbank could be a 10 and Farrell might play OC. I think he might have been in one of his more mischievous moods yesterday.

[Banquo]

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

Think I said I was quite happy with the squad bar Heinz, but puzzled over what Simmonds needed to do to get a sniff.

Umaga has been around the squad as an apprentice, but not in the last couple of squads, so imo no meaningful ‘edge’.

Umaga was in the squad, not as an apprentice, for the 6N earlier in the year. Before that was the world cup.

Cool. But obviously not in the last couple of camps?

[Banquo]

What vitriol? Personally I’d think a more experienced back up to Farrell would be preferential.
Out of interest, how much time has Umaga had with Eddies squads in the last couple of weeks or months?

Not specifically you. But read through this thread and you'll find some really strange posts. I mean I understand that some people will never care for Jones, I just don't get why they go on about. It's dull, that's all. It seems a decent enough squad to me and as it transitions from a Sarries core to an Exeter one it'll get easier for the Simmondses of this world.

I may be wrong but hasn't Umaga been involved before as an apprentice or something? In my memory, he and Smith have been swapping over periodically.

I think he's the weakest of the five English flyhalfs in consideration (Ford, Farrell, Simmonds, Smith, Umaga). He relies heavily on Gopperth at 12 and is more than a bit flakey. He's got masses of potential and I can understand Eddie wanting to get him into the squad to oversee part of his development. Plus getting him a cap now would stop attentions from elsewhere coming later (particularly from Samoa). If Farrell limps off early Vs a decent side would you have confidence in Umaga coming on and running the show? I would not though against Italy I'm sure he'll be fine and his attacking skill set will create plenty of opportunities.

Well yes, that was my point about back up to Farrell. Suspect Ford isn’t too badly hurt.

[Banquo]

Imo too many changes if Faz goes off.

Not if the bench backs were altered i.e. to pick Umaga on there. Otherwise Slade to 10, Marchant to 13 in more extremis.

Justice 4 Malins to 10!

That’s what I thought that selection implied- but would then mean Watson moves to 15 with Joe C replacing him. That’s a lot of changes for one injury.

[Banquo]

The plot thickens..... Jones thinks Furbank could be a 10 and Farrell might play OC. I think he might have been in one of his more mischievous moods yesterday.

Furbank is not a bad 10 in the little I’ve seen of him there.

[Oakboy]

Can somebody remind me who is the current backs and/or attack coach? Jones is quoted as saying that selection was by 'we coaches'. I'm just thinking about who might have been influential.

[Oakboy]

The plot thickens..... Jones thinks Furbank could be a 10 and Farrell might play OC. I think he might have been in one of his more mischievous moods yesterday.

Furbank is not a bad 10 in the little I’ve seen of him there.

Are you thinking that Umaga might not make the bench?

[Scrumhead]

I think Amor is attack coach isn’t he?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Can somebody remind me who is the current backs and/or attack coach? Jones is quoted as saying that selection was by 'we coaches'. I'm just thinking about who might have been influential.

Simon Amor

[Epaminondas Pules]

Not if the bench backs were altered i.e. to pick Umaga on there. Otherwise Slade to 10, Marchant to 13 in more extremis.

Justice 4 Malins to 10!

That’s what I thought that selection implied- but would then mean Watson moves to 15 with Joe C replacing him. That’s a lot of changes for one injury.

It isn't a huge amount of change. Replace the fly half, in this case from fullback. Then move a fullback/wing from wing to fullback and bring on a wing on the wing.

That said, the backs bench change would be to have a fly half on the bench, as it helps to have experience there.

With the backs bench there is always likely to be positions that are not covered directly and thus require a rejig

[Which Tyler]

The plot thickens..... Jones thinks Furbank could be a 10 and Farrell might play OC. I think he might have been in one of his more mischievous moods yesterday.

TBF, OC is where Farrell broken into Saracens team. I wouldn't be too surprised if he still has more minutes at OC than IC.

Way more likely though, it's just another for the long list of "things Eddie says"

[Mellsblue]

The plot thickens..... Jones thinks Furbank could be a 10 and Farrell might play OC. I think he might have been in one of his more mischievous moods yesterday.

TBF, OC is where Farrell broken into Saracens team. I wouldn't be too surprised if he still has more minutes at OC than IC.

Way more likely though, it's just another for the long list of "things Eddie says"

He also made his Eng debut at OC but there are many reasons why he hasn’t played there in years. 99% certain its Jones toying with the media, though.

[Digby]

I look forward to Farrell making that outside break at 13 with his running through treacle routine at work. In fairness to Eddie he did make me smile with this latest.